Curse

Alleji · Nov 13, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

Are people still arguing about quickshot?
Christ. It's better than punishing shot for r-spike BY FAR. That's the only use for it, sure, but it does it's job nicely

Are people still being complete noobs?
Yes, I guess they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Well no one argues it hasnt got a use what we do argue is the fact as far as elites go it sucks it should be a normal skill and not an elite. burning shot is the new r-spike big damager

I am arguing it hasn't got a use. I challenge you to go ahead and try to create a build where quick shot is the optimal elite. (i.e. more efficient than any other skill that could be used instead for the same purpose)

Sir Mad · Nov 13, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Read the Wind
Quickshot
Needling Shot
Savage Shot
Flail
<defensive stance>
<FW or utility>
Rez

16 Marksmanship
13 Expertise

TheLordOfBlah · Nov 14, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Made In Ascalon

How the hell is Peace and Harmony a terrible elite? Just take one monk with it and cast it on every monk on the team. You can use it with Divine Boon to help offset the negative energy pip. You can also cast it on touch rangers, MMs...pretty much any caster that remembers not to attack, which shouldn't be hard because attacking normally is useless.

Unyielding Aura is good depending on where you are. It ressurects the person and they don't take DP if they die again. This can be incredibly useful in Random or Team Arena with a good monk.

I'd have to say that the worst elite is an assassin elite. Pretty much all assassin elites suck. My money's on seeping wound. Famine is useless in PvE, same in PvP unless your team is marvelous at keeping energy up-but even so, the added damage is negligible. Plus, has anyone looked at cultist's fervor? That elite pissed me off so much when I tried to use it. Shatterstone was, at one point, one of the worst ele elites, but then the damage was FINALLY raised in the mega skills update.

Famine+Sympathetic Visage = GG, FARMING BUILD.

Your reasoning behind PnH is bad, touchers dont need extra energy, thats what OoB is for.

As for the "pretty much any caster that remembers not to attack because thats useless" statement, casting a spell that targets a foe ends it also so GG again... That makes this skill useless for how many classes... hmm...

assassin
warrior
dervish
paragon (unless they use only shouts/chants)
elementalist
ranger
mesmer
necro (unless MM)

Also, Cultists fervor is good for a few super high cost skills, not spamming.

Riotgear · Nov 14, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Life Transfer is even being considered for worst elite? You're joking, right? It may be ridiculously ineffective against players with half an ounce of hex removal, and may be the second-most overrated skill next to Flesh Golem, but it works quite well in places like RA, AB, and competitive missions. The fact that a skill works WELL in any field of play pretty much instantly disqualifies it from being the "worst."

I wouldn't bring PnH if it WASN'T an elite. Can you say that of Seeping Wound, Life Transfer, or Quick Shot?

Master of Magic blows pretty bad too. I still don't get what it was supposed to accomplish. Stone Sheath doesn't make any sense at all.

Quote:

Just take one monk with it and cast it on every monk on the team.

0mar · Nov 14, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Life Transfer is even being considered for worst elite? You're joking, right? It may be ridiculously ineffective against players with half an ounce of hex removal, and may be the second-most overrated skill next to Flesh Golem, but it works quite well in places like RA, AB, and competitive missions. The fact that a skill works WELL in any field of play pretty much instantly disqualifies it from being the "worst."

You can bring an empty skillbar into RA and still get glad points. AB is slightly better than RA. Life Transfer does pitiful damage and does pitiful healing.

The thing is that LT doesn't work well at all. For Necros, they have many more options that are far more effcient than LT is, no matter what the build is. I can't think of a single situation where I'd rather have LT.

Poison Ivy · Nov 14, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Aura of Faith

If only this skill wasn't under Divine Favor..

Eilsys · Nov 14, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Master of Magic blows pretty bad too. I still don't get what it was supposed to accomplish. Stone Sheath doesn't make any sense at all.

I assumed Stone Sheath was there only because Mandragor's were resistant to earth damage... I could be horribly wrong though.

I still stand by Unyielding... I can't see how you could "scam" anyone with it (like someone said earlier), and there's always Vengeance, which is an insta-res.

0mar · Nov 14, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Stone Sheath is utterly mind-boggling in it's uselessness. It really is good for nothing.

Riotgear · Nov 14, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

The thing is that LT doesn't work well at all. For Necros, they have many more options that are far more effcient than LT is, no matter what the build is. I can't think of a single situation where I'd rather have LT.

Efficient options such as what? Seriously, in most places LT sees use, the target's dead before it even wears off. The fact that it's degen means they'll eat the full effect from Shadow/Lifebane, which means combined with vampiric gaze you're looking at an opener of 455 damage/health loss.

The goal is not efficiency, the goal is to pack a huge amount of damage into a small amount period of time without cooperation from your teammates. It accomplishes that goal. It is not the "worst elite."

EPO Bot · Nov 14, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I'm shure it has uses (parties full of adrenaline wammo's for example), but Quicksand is right now the most friggin IRRITATING spirit in the game!

killer_sss · Nov 15, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

all elites have a use period. if your strickly talking pvp then an elite that focuses on a pve specific event/ action/ setup is pretty much useless in pvp.
if not then there is no such thing as worst elite.

Riotgear · Nov 15, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_sss

all elites have a use period. if your strickly talking pvp then an elite that focuses on a pve specific event/ action/ setup is pretty much useless in pvp.
if not then there is no such thing as worst elite.

Some skills so bad you wouldn't take them if they weren't elite (Stone Sheath, Peace and Harmony). Some elites are inferior to other non-elite spells in the same line (pre-buff Shatterstone, Lacerate). Some elites are simply inferior to other elites in the same line (Master of Magic, Quick Shot). Some elites are so ridiculously situational that there's barely even a use for them (Equinox, Balthazar's Pendulum).

Those are what you can call truly bad elites, and candidates for the "worst." Life Transfer doesn't fall into any of those categories, because you can still cart it into RA and hit someone with it and watch them scream. It does three times as much life drain as vampiric gaze at half the cost, while not preventing SS/LBS from doing their full damage. It works. It works well. It's not the "worst elite" just because bringing it into GvG is an amazingly terrible idea.

Draco Angelus · Nov 16, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

It's actually mind boggling some here think stone sheath is bad.

sure, it's not an elite you'll see often in the metagame I presume, but making attacks elemental and no more criticals is a sertious benefit.

For starters it's hell for assassins, they need critical strikes for energy, and we all know assassins need their energy.

with turning stuff to earth dmg, you can use added armour vs earth, helping you a lot and monks can use mantra's to secure energy while being bashed. Also, it's not limited to earth, using stuff like winter will change it as well.

I'm sure there are various other uses as well.

Oh, and so far, I've yet to see how Wastrel's Collapse can be used effectively.

Formosa · Nov 17, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

This is one of many posts on here naming good elite skills as bad.

every blood spike team runs SoD, I know when I'm playing ranger I call for it a lot vs Wild Blow Iway warriors, since wild blow>whirling defense.

Other good elite skills named here:
shadow form (you never saw the two man assassin gankers in the playoffs, did you?)

starburst: absolutely devastating, pbaoe fire skill. the only good fire elite, one of the better elementalist ones.

Ether prodigy: omg you have to be kidding me? ether prodigy fueled heal parties ftw.

quivering blade: not my favorite elite or anything, but certainly not bad. Low adrenaline high damage elite skill for swords? I'll take it. and who cares if the warrior is dazed?

quickshot: again, not a bad elite. useful for running a flameslinger build, or just shooting arrows really, really fast.

Order of the vampire: formerly one of the most used necro elites, for both Iway and R-Spike. Not seen as often anymore, except in pve farming areas like Tombs farming. Still good though.

Heal as one: that thing's scale is INSANE. Ferocious strike will always be more useful, but it's certainly not bad at all.

bad elite skills: locust's fury. Cleave (eviscerate is always going to be better). Every elite spirit is terrible. Spoil victor has been named. It's very bad. The aforementioned archer's signet. Most of the mesmer elites are pretty bad.

That's pretty much all of them.

Cleave is used in GvG sometimes now that Evisc got nerfed. Spoil Victor got buffed and is now very good. Locust's Fury...big LOL there, even pre-buff it was one of the best assassin elites in the game...

Riotgear · Nov 17, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Angelus

For starters it's hell for assassins, they need critical strikes for energy, and we all know assassins need their energy.

Energy denial on assassins is a very poor justifier for an elite.

Quote:

with turning stuff to earth dmg, you can use added armour vs earth, helping you a lot and monks can use mantra's to secure energy while being bashed. Also, it's not limited to earth, using stuff like winter will change it as well.

Armor advantages? Just bring +10 AL vs. Physical and use a real elite. Basically, Stone Sheath is a harder-to-maintain Greater Conflagration.

Quote:

Oh, and so far, I've yet to see how Wastrel's Collapse can be used effectively.

Wastrel's Collapse, Diversion/Shame. It's not that bad.

ericdanie · Nov 17, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Well, take a wild blow from a Dervish and you'll see that criticals from Dervishes hurt.

- Locust's Fury basically makes an Assassin deal damage every 0.5 seconds, is that bad?
- Quickshot can be used for DPS builds and spiking, to much success.
- Stone Sheath, like mentioned previously, can be used to convert damage to Earth and enjoy Mantra of Earth, which a Mo/Me couldn't do alone as Stone Strike (non-elite) means a 3rd profession.
- Archer's Signet + Concussion Shot = Voila, you can try a few more times before getting screwed up in energy for a good time.

I've yet to see a useful build with SCAVENGER'S FOCUS. Basically same damage as RtW but Elite. It's WS, so what? Marksmanship is also non-primary atribute. WS doesn't even have a weapon to be benefited from. If I had a weapon linked to WS, then it could have some use as I dropped Marksmanship from my attribute spending list. Really, it sucks, other professions have better elites to use than trying this a secondary. Ritualist has the Spawning Power linked Elite that makes even Ritualists viable weapon wielders and immune to blindness... And I didn't even have to mention the fact Scavenger's Focus needs foe to be under a condition in order to trigger the incredibily high (notice the sarcasm) damage bonus...

Expert's Dexterity. It's true, you can try some obscene builds with it, use Debilitating Shot with it and your target will get out of energy in no time, but the problem is you'll also get out of energy, probably before a spellcaster. 150% more is a bit too much... it means 2.5 times the base energy cost. At Expertise 16 you can only expect to be able to spam 5 energy attacks. Maybe if they added a variable like 150..80 it could get more viable, or if there was a bow attack like "Auspicious Shot" non-elite for energy management. Don't even try using Concussion Shot with Expert's Dexterity on

ericdanie · Nov 17, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Well, take a wild blow from a Dervish and you'll see that criticals from Dervishes hurt.

- Locust's Fury basically makes an Assassin deal damage every 0.5 seconds, is that bad?
- Quickshot can be used for DPS builds and spiking, to much success.
- Stone Sheath, like mentioned previously, can be used to convert damage to Earth and enjoy Mantra of Earth, which a Mo/Me couldn't do alone as Stone Strike (non-elite) means a 3rd profession.
- Archer's Signet + Concussion Shot = Voila, you can try a few more times before getting screwed up in energy for a good time.

I've yet to see a useful build with SCAVENGER'S FOCUS. Basically same damage as RtW but Elite. It's WS, so what? Marksmanship is also non-primary atribute. WS doesn't even have a weapon to be benefited from. If I had a weapon linked to WS, then it could have some use as I dropped Marksmanship from my attribute spending list. Really, it sucks, other professions have better elites to use than trying this a secondary. Ritualist has the Spawning Power linked Elite that makes even Ritualists viable weapon wielders and immune to blindness... And I didn't even have to mention the fact Scavenger's Focus needs foe to be under a condition in order to trigger the incredibily high (notice the sarcasm) damage bonus...

Expert's Dexterity. It's true, you can try some obscene builds with it, use Debilitating Shot with it and your target will get out of energy in no time, but the problem is you'll also get out of energy, probably before a spellcaster. 150% more is a bit too much... it means 2.5 times the base energy cost. At Expertise 16 you can only expect to be able to spam 5 energy attacks. Maybe if they added a variable like 150..80 it could get more viable, or if there was a bow attack like "Auspicious Shot" non-elite for energy management. Don't even try using Concussion Shot with Expert's Dexterity on

Former Ruling · Nov 17, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

You have to remember too, some elites are only elites because they WOULD own if they weren't, even if it means as an elite they suck.

Also some elites are decent in design for a certain build, but if that build they are designed for is ineffective...They are too. Like ALL the signet helping elites we get...when there is no real viable signet build (mesmers have the most selection, but they are spread over 3 attributes and dont scale nicely)

(As a funny note, to the poster above, at 16 Expertise, Concussion Shot under Dexterity costs 22 Energy to use [+50% from Dex, -60% from Expertise makes it cost ~90% of its base energy cost]. I did it lol) They did buff I though, During the preview I think it was just a set 50% recharge.

Riotgear · Nov 17, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericdanie

Expert's Dexterity. It's true, you can try some obscene builds with it, use Debilitating Shot with it and your target will get out of energy in no time, but the problem is you'll also get out of energy, probably before a spellcaster.

Expert's Dexterity is good for spamming the crap out of distracting shot. It's also all attack skills, not just bow attacks, which means it may be useful on thumpers (especially if Rampage gets nerfed).

Amity and Truth · Nov 19, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Vow of Silence.
It's a deathtrap. Nice on paper but awful in a real scenario. The major bummer on this skill is the "ALL spells condition" which sadly but logically includes spells even cast by your allies.
It's just a deathtrap for yourself. Sure, the enemy can't cast spells on you. Woohoo. But your allies can't either. The enemy just has to focus fire on you and you're dead. The few skills which can heal through VoS are nowhere near powerful enough to offset the damage you can take in those 10 seconds.

Add into the mix that it has a 1 second casting time and can't be recast while you're under the effect of it (as you can't cast ANYTHING while under the effect of it) and you've got a trashy skill. It's weak against interrupts, it has a downtime, it prevents your allies from healing you, it prevents yourself from doing anything of use besides spamming your attacks and watching you die. It's not even useful as a secondary class skill due to it being tied to mysticism.
If you want to live through it you're probably cancelling it with a signet which then however takes out the very reason you brought this crappy elite - spell immunity.

Sure it has it's uses somewhere, every skill does but in most scenarios it's just a really awful spell, especially when it is compared to the other spell immunity skills. My opinion.