Curse

yesitsrob · Mar 08, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

As far as the last update goes for PVE, I cannot help but focus on the buffs, for me the Enfeebling Blood buff was pretty huge (as I'm quite sure it is to a lot of other people) - and for PVE, the Ele nerfs were pretty minor at best, hardly build killers (ok maybe they kill farming builds, but i couldn't give a toss about them)..

As for nerfs that effect me, there's Death Pact Signet, but I'd be a complete RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing idiot to think that it wasn't overpowered for a non-pve skill, and it's been long due and was very much expected to happen at some date, that said it's really barely worth crying about.

Anyway actual good players are somewhat capable of both PVE and PVP - or at least that's how I've experienced it. If you can PVP at a high level, then you can PVE. It's totally different how to do it but it's significantly easier (they even give you ridiculous skills to make it even more easy)

Makkert · Mar 08, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

PvE skills:
your ticket to smash'n bash festival

upier · Mar 08, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by nem coke

Actually in my fav build for pve I have mesmer, necro(no it's not a MM - I hate them and I hope they make each minion 25e xD) and an ele from heroes. You just need to know how to play it. (no ofense there, I'm not saying you're bad at the game)

Ohh gosh not again ...
People that do know how to play them - take paragons instead.
/rolleyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Idiot, if it's just a game, why are we arguing over balance, or even posting on forums. PvP takes skill (and by PvP I mean Balanced GvG) thus it is an achivement. Whether it's a game or real life, anything that takes effort is an achivement, PvE does not require this.

You just keep on reminding me why I am ignoring your ass.
Now IF only the posts that would quote your posts would be hidden too ...
You are forgetting a few basic things.
PvE means that there is nobody to measure to. Which means a person does not need to better then a bunch of other people to achieve something.
So you saying that reaching a certain goal not being an achievement is complete and utter bull. Simply because the person does not need to measure up to other people (you for example) or their views to achieve something. If a person feels that they have achieved something in PvE - they have.
Whereas that kind of logic is much more difficult in PvP - because of the nature of the game - each achievement requires being better then other people.
It might not be an achievement to YOU - but hey ... watch us not care!

Shuuda · Mar 08, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You just keep on reminding me why I am ignoring your ass.

Way to contradict yourself.

Quote:

PvE means that there is nobody to measure to. Which means a person does not need to better then a bunch of other people to achieve something.

Yeah, you measure up to AI.

Quote:

So you saying that reaching a certain goal not being an achievement is complete and utter bull. Simply because the person does not need to measure up to other people (you for example) or their views to achieve something. If a person feels that they have achieved something in PvE - they have.

C-Space C-Space C-Space. That's pretty much sums up the challenge of PvE.

Quote:

Whereas that kind of logic is much more difficult in PvP - because of the nature of the game - each achievement requires being better then other people.
It might not be an achievement to YOU - but hey ... watch us not care!

PvP is more competitive, it takes more skill, more teamwork, more thinking, it has better rewards.

You don't care, when why are you here arguing? Self contradiction again.

Like I said, most PvErs simply deny everything, what skill is, that GW is crap as a PvE game (it should have focused on PvP more), how bad they are at the game. No use in trying to make you see, oh well, it's always fun to taunt.

Turbobusa · Mar 08, 2008, 09:48 AM // 09:48

TBH even if I'm more a pvp player, I like the changes cause it keeps me from getting bored smashing the same buttons over and over. You know, trying builds and such.

But I guess for that you have to play the game for the fun of it and not take that as seriously as some people on these boards.

EDIT: I was criticising both pve and pvp players you know.
If pve players come here other than discussing strategies and start flaming/complaining, that's where they take the game too seriously.
Pvpers take it too seriously when they start insulting anet's employees.

But that's not the subject

Shuuda · Mar 08, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

But I guess for that you have to play the game for the fun of it and not take that as seriously as some people on these boards.

I'm finding this rather ironic in someways. Since I'm sure many of the poor, victimised "PvEr" would say "We're just playing for fun and you PvPers take it too seriously" or "We don't care....". Well:

- GvG is competitive, so yes, it's serious at times.
- If These PvErs don't take it seriously, then why are they here posting their complaints, and whines, and such an' such?

In truth, no one here is not serious in one way or the other. I'm serious about disliking the hypcrisy, denial, and uninformed viewpoints of the general PvE community.

Winterclaw · Mar 08, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Eh, it was good on Koss or Goren when you absolutely had to take him because the quest/mission required them. Otherwise, no, not really. Not much reason to bring a Warrior hero, and players have SY, which is 1,000,000x better.

I don't have SY because I"m not in a guild that does AB and I don't FFF. :\

Turtle222 · Mar 08, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

i just generally don't like one of my builds being nerfed. Yes, i am too lazy to make up a new working build, because the reason i play the game is to relax and not have to work for a new build

Snow Bunny · Mar 08, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

i just generally don't like one of my builds being nerfed. Yes, i am too lazy to make up a new working build, because the reason i play the game is to relax and not have to work for a new build

It takes roughly 40 seconds to think of a replacement skill.

Especially in PvE.

ensoriki · Mar 08, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

because sometimes its just nerfs and things that could've been buffed, even if its just a subtle fix are over looked.

Im still waiting for disrupting dagger to move Twice as fast.

ender6 · Mar 08, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

The answer to the fundemental discrepancy between the PvE community and the PvP community is quite simple.

PvP players thrive on change, they abhor stale, repetetive game play. Therefore updates aren't just exciting, they have the potential to shift the meta game and recreate PvP all over again (within reason).

PvE players on the other hand thrive on accomplishing linear missions or farming, or challenge runs. This usually relies on them implementing builds that are defined in a static enviornment. Unlike PvP their opponents/missions don't change. So whenever ANet releases an update they are (often) forced to implement a new build to accomplish the same thing as before.

I'm not knocking PvE by any measure, just illustrating the point that where PvP is dynamic, PvE is innately static, therefore changes within the realm of PvE are almost always bad. I think that is why ANet threw PvE'rs the Ursan skill - a measure of appeasement.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 08, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

because sometimes its just nerfs and things that could've been buffed, even if its just a subtle fix are over looked.

Im still waiting for disrupting dagger to move Twice as fast.

I would quite honestly enjoy an update that nerfed every skill in every build I use, and made no buffs. In PvE, 95% of the fun is making and tweaking new builds, the other 5% is breaking open monster pinatas for loot. The people who run only one build and cry when it gets changed baffle me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

PvE players on the other hand thrive on accomplishing linear missions or farming, or challenge runs.

My god, is this why all of you are playing PvE? Thousands of you actually find repetitive farming runs fun? I.... I don't know what to say.

Cherng Butter · Mar 08, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I'm a PvE player, and I fully support skill balances needed for PvP.

Turtle222 · Mar 09, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It takes roughly 40 seconds to think of a replacement skill.

Especially in PvE.

what, for mind blast?

LockerLoad · Mar 09, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Skill balances are an evidence of a deeply flawed game. It's not impossible to do it right the first time Wizards of the coast seems to do so.

Izzy attempts to balance skills around "High level PVP". Most players don't play "High level PVP", hence most players object to said balances.

When Izzy balances(nerfs) a skill, he usually makes it totally unusable. For example "fear me" an "watch yourself" are now total cack. Lion's comfort is not a good heal nor a good adrenaline gain, it's a skill uncertain of what it's to do.

Conversely he makes ineffectual changes to overpowered skills. Guardian which was a skill in desperate need of a good nerf-beating(after it's previous buff) got a cool down increase to 4 seconds. A monk can still maintain Guardian on one target continually which was the problem in the first place so why even bother?

These balance issues are the result of ill concieved, poorly tested expansions and the crap classes they introduced.

Don't get me wrong, I pity poor Izzy. No matter what he does people are gonna complain. He's trying to fix a game that is totally broken.

samcobra · Mar 09, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It takes roughly 40 seconds to think of a replacement skill.

Especially in PvE.

This is a lie. I spend several minutes having to change my hero bars when they're severely affected by skill balances.

However, it is true that in order to PvP, you have to have a very good knowledge of game mechanics and you pretty much end up knowing every skill in the game and what it does. This is not true for people who don't PvP, as you don't really need to know it.
Because of this built-up knowledge of the game, PvP players are better at this game in general. They are more adaptable and, by nature, able to devise solutions to problems they face in the game.

I don't honestly think that there has ever been a skill balance that has made it impossible to complete an area in PvE. Sure, you might have to change strategies, or it might take longer. Hell, you might have to actually play smart. Still, the level of redundancy in this game assures that those areas can still be beaten.

As for Mind Blast, it's still good. Just run 14 fire instead of 15 now.

blue.rellik · Mar 09, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

what, for mind blast?

Why do you even need to replace MB?

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 09, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Nerfs are necessary. Lets take a look see if things weren't nerfed in this game...

[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill][skill]Illusionary Weaponry[/skill]

Racthoh · Mar 09, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Nerfs are necessary. Lets take a look see if things weren't nerfed in this game...

[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill][skill]Illusionary Weaponry[/skill]

What?

LightningHell · Mar 09, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

Skill balances are an evidence of a deeply flawed game. It's not impossible to do it right the first time Wizards of the coast seems to do so.

Keep in mind that Magic: the Gathering is not a perfect game. If M:tG started off perfectly, then we would not have such cards such as Ancestral Recall or the rest of the Power Nine, or more recently Skullclamp. Much of Magic: the Gathering's seeming lack of change is not due to them being absolutely 'perfect', more of it being hard to get to every card of a certain card they print and change the text on that, and the relatively large differences in a single mana and/or power, while in Guild Wars you have numbers that go to dozens instead of single digits.

Quote:

These balance issues are the result of ill concieved, poorly tested expansions and the crap classes they introduced.

Yup.