Curse

Tyla · Mar 28, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

/signed for Nerfing sabway.

Why are people so angry at other people's use of Ursan? Its fine.

You say "nerf Sabway", but say "Ursan's fine"?
I really don't understand people these days...

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfaile

The problem is the nerf crowd imo has a lot of stuff that has decreased in value since UB was introduced, they want everything to be above what the average player can obtain.

So I say lets all whine (and lets be honest, that is what this thread is) to nerf 55s, 600s, VwK, etc. Lets buff raptors, undead, etc. Lets get rid of all solo/dou farmers!!!
Lets make anything that will let one person get what he or she wants or need out of reach.

I don't see anything wrong with 55hp, 600hp, VwK and builds specifically used for Farming. They're kept on their side of things.
But Ursan's used for practically everything, now. The majority of the PvE community have been brainwashed by Ursan, and ONLY play Ursan, which means the majority of all guilds aswell, not only PuGs.

If you aren't going to try doing title hunting without all this crap that's just BEYOND broken, just because you want your title as soon as possible with absolute ease there's no point in having the goal.
It's like buying your common game for a normal console, rushing through the storyline by means of cheats and glitches, and thinking "I'm bored now, new game mewant".
At least I assume people will be like that after Ursanwaying their brains out.

Tyla · Mar 28, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

remove the flagging mechanism

Where did this come from?
Are you aware Hero Battles is dedicated on splits, where the flagging is practically NEEDED?
And are you also aware H/H don't usually move out of AoE by themselves, even when you run?

The AI of H/H is retarded enough, I believe.

Neverending Silence · Mar 28, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Why? Many players don't enjoy PvP. Why would you want them to play something they don't like? Either can be hard and that's how it should be. You're making half the game seem worthless.

lol i find that very funny as well....ALOT of ppl enjoy pvp. TA,RA,AB are always FULL of ppl and theres almost always more then 1-2 districts. even at the times when most ppl arent on, they still have a decent amount of ppl whereas pve is like a ghost town excluding the market areas/ fow/ uw. but hey its probly just u that hates pvp

Tyla · Mar 28, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

You shouldn't really take Ursans from a PuG unless you're running full Ursanway.
They're like Wammos who bring crap like Mending and Healing Breeze on their bar. They think they're invincible.

pfaile · Mar 28, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

You shouldn't really take Ursans from a PuG unless you're running full Ursanway.
They're like Wammos who bring crap like Mending and Healing Breeze on their bar. They think they're invincible.

I agree, the mistake on our part was not asking for him to ping his build.

cellardweller · Mar 28, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

The skillbar replacement concept is the problem with all the blessings and needs to be removed

Quote:

Originally Posted by me in some other thread

Ursan Blessing
For 60-80 seconds you assume the avatar of the bear. While in this form, you gain 100hp, and your attacks do an additional 10-15 damage and have a 5-10% chance of knocking down your target. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
Reason: The +10-15 damage always is somewhat in line with avatar of lyssa's +45 while activating. The +100hp is equivilent to Lyssa's +20e (survivor vs radiant insigs). The knockdown is gravy on the top because people will compliain if their pve skills aren't overpowered.
Avatar Model: Norns bear form

Raven Blessing
For 60-80 seconds you assume the avatar of the raven. While in this form, you are immune to knockdown have a 10-30% block chance, your attacks cause bleeding for 3-5 seconds and have a 10-15% chance of blinding your opponent for 3-5 second and your skills recharge 33% faster.
Reason: This is a Mantra of recovery with slightly lower coverage, but available without any attribute investments. The anti-knockdown and condition causesing are flavour based bonuses that won't cause major imbalances.
Avatar Model: Tengu with black feathers.

Volfen Blessing
For 60-80 seconds you assume the avatar of the wolf. While in this form, you gain +4-6 health regeneration, and you move and attack 33% faster. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
reason: This is the AoB that would actually be useful in PvE but would break PvP. In PvE having long lasting, unremovable speed and ias buffs is useful without being gamebreaking.
Avatar Model: Wendigo .

Bowstring Badass · Mar 28, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbiter_of_Peril

Sab made vanquishing easier by doing something people have a hard time doing, creating hero builds that synergize with each other.

I was laughing so hard. He just jacked hero builds from HA changed 3 skills and BAM...

Anyway I would just lower all of the damage on the skills +45 at max.

yesitsrob · Mar 28, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

If they haven't nerfed it by now, they aren't going to.

I don't think it's that overpowered, I just think it's the absolute most numbingly simple way to clear an area, I'm pretty convinced you could do it faster with other means - but they would probably take a lot of effort which frankly no one cares for in pve, we all just want to run nightmare weapon monks or something.

Quote:

I was laughing so hard. He just jacked hero builds from HA changed 3 skills and BAM...

Apparently almost every pve'er on guru was unaware of Soul Reaping abuse and were too busy QQing about OMFG ANET NERFED MMS to realise what 90% of tombs players were running at the time - Heroes with infinite energy etc.

Quote:

/signed for nerfing imbagons

/signed for nerfing sabway

/signed for nerfing the tripple paragon team

The only thing that makes the triple para team imbalanced is the Save Yourselves Paragon, the other 2 are, well... no more imba than paras happen to be. Sabway is all Soul Reaping and skills heroes happen to be good with, I personally wouldn't care if they killed Soul Reaping but I can imagine the uproar it would cause ... actually nerf it for a laugh.

Akolo · Mar 28, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

people will always defend and play that which is overpowered and makes it easier. ursan is the overpowered skill atm. just because it makes your game easier doesnt mean its "right".
if we dont have balanced pve everyone will run the same build.
could also make the skills adrenaline skills to be ontopic

Fear Me! · Mar 28, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

After 21 seconds, a max rank ursan using just ursan strike will do 900 armor ignoring damage. Only if the damage from three meteor showers at 16 fire magic were also armor ignoring, then they'd be around the same damage range. To 'balance' the skill, reduce the damage caused, and/or make it susceptible to blind. Also, make the bear avatar have a set al and energy level regardless of profession. If this is too much, then retain the skill as it is, but restrict it to norn only areas.

Rushin Roulette · Mar 28, 2008, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Id nerf it so that Weapon damage effects dont work (zealous /Vamp/ Sundering and so on), and that the Ursan Strike should be a melee attack instead of a touch skill (although that has already been nerfed from being a ranged attack).

Making UB and enchantment wouldnt be bad either, but that would also mean that the other Elite forms (Derv avatars) would be changed, and I dont see that happening.

To tell the truth, I have seen more UB groups fail utterly at UW or FoW than Balanced. only because of rampaging over agroing Yogibears. A sugested buff (not serious or possible obviously) would be to add 10% more IQ to the list of perks UB offers.

kranius · Mar 28, 2008, 09:32 AM // 09:32

How would i nerf ? just delete it, or yes, set up a common mana pool whatever the class/stuff you are using

Div · Mar 28, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

The thing that's so strong about ursan is that it replaces a bad player's shitty bar with a good one. Even if you nerf the damage/recharge/activation or whatnot, ursan will remain grind>skill.

And that leads to why the idea of having ursan work like a stronger dervish avatar is probably the "best" one. That way, they could also balance the other blessings in relation to this one, so that casters benefit more from say, raven, and physicals benefit more from ursan.

Something like:

Ursan: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +100..200 health, +10..20 armor, +10..20% chance of causing KD.
Raven: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +10..20 energy, +10..20% block rate, spells cast and recharge 10..20% faster.
Volfen: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +50..100 health, +1..5 health regen, +10..20% attack and movement speed, +10..20% critical hit.

Akolo · Mar 28, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

like that idea masamune but its too massive and probably wont happen :/.

i would have nothing against ursan if it wasnt so .. overpowered.

though in this thread we have numerous of GOOD ways to change it so i hope it gets some notice lol.

tmakinen · Mar 28, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

/signed for holymasamune's suggestion. That would make the blessings actually interesting

Fried Tech · Mar 28, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Alright. Looks like things got a little off topic for about a page. But it seems like we are good now.

A Lot of good ideas.
Seems like the popular ones are:

KD only one target
Make skill 1 a melee attack instead of touchy skill
or, Change the entire skill to work more like a derv avatar

Lets keep 'em coming

Richardt · Mar 28, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

After some thinking, changing the Blessing skills to work like a dervish Avatar presents a small problem.

In all 3 Norn missions you get the blessing as a way to "help" do a certain task (locating the Nornbear, preventing Destroyer tremors from knocking your down, blowing open barriers). But if we change it to a Avatar type form, then we loose this functionality.

So we have two choices if we go with the Avatar idea:

1) Keep the Blessings "as is" for the missions, but the actual skill functions as the Avatar.

2) Rework the missions to make the Avatar idea work there-like for Gate to Far give the Raven an immunity to knockdown, make the barriers able to be attacked while in Bear, and not sure about the Nornbear-maybe whenever you activate a skill it pings his location for a short period or so?

1 would be the easiest to implement, but the purpose of the missions where to allow the player a "taste" of the blessing skills, so it kills that. 2 would require more work, but it would be more true to the actual skills when the player got them.

Fried Tech · Mar 28, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Problem is, most of these "imba" skills / builds can be stopped.
SY Para a prob? [skill]Soothing Images[/skill]
And yes, I do see quite alot of mesmer monsters carry this skill.

that skill would do nothing against UB because you don't need adrenaline to use it, or any of its skills.

You might be thinking of an "IMBA"GON. which is a paragon. Ursan is a Pve only skill that is not related to class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

After some thinking, changing the Blessing skills to work like a dervish Avatar presents a small problem.

In all 3 Norn missions you get the blessing as a way to "help" do a certain task (locating the Nornbear, preventing Destroyer tremors from knocking your down, blowing open barriers). But if we change it to a Avatar type form, then we loose this functionality.

I think another way to work around the mission problem would be to have the avatar (bear, raven, wolf) follow you around for the mission. And just have them put off an "aura", giving all nearby allies the buffs needed to finish the job.

upier · Mar 28, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Problem is, most of these "imba" skills / builds can be stopped.
SY Para a prob? [skill]Soothing Images[/skill]
And yes, I do see quite alot of mesmer monsters carry this skill.

Yeah but that's why any good build will include counters to it's weaknesses.
That's why one adds hex/condition removal in such builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

that skill would do nothing against UB because you don't need adrenaline to use it, or any of its skills.

You might be thinking of an "IMBA"GON. which is a paragon. Ursan is a Pve only skill that is not related to class.

That's exactly what he said.

Fried Tech · Mar 28, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

oops. just read through it to quick. I assumed he was talking about UB.... because this is a UB thoughts thread.