Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 19, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Please, take a glance at an artilery ritualist. Believe it or not, [Pain]+[bloodsong]+[anguish]+[shadowsong]+[wanderlust]/[dissonance]/[disenchantment]+[painful bond] = masive damage and disruption. They are usually very fragile but you have a party to take the damage for them. Of course I am not saying you have SplinterBarage'S AoE but if you are smart enough to pull a few mob at a time you have a killing machine. (BTW did I mention the Pull'n'Trap possibility?)

They'll die nearly instantly, and a Moebius Blossom Assassin will still kill things more quickly. With better survivability, and still room for utility.

Trylo · Aug 19, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

rits are midline.

monks are backline.

rits are far more similar to elementalists. if you are backlining as a rit youre not getting the full potential of the profession.

Steps_Descending · Aug 19, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

They'll die nearly instantly, and a Moebius Blossom Assassin will still kill things more quickly. With better survivability, and still room for utility.

Probably, but I don't like spamming 2 skills every seconds. That's player taste here. Beside, it looks like we are arguing about which build is the best dmg dealer. In wich case, either you are right and there is no room for a dmg rit (making the class pointless), or it's the other way around (making mentioning the assassin pointless).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

All I can say is, enjoy your three or five second casting times, the buggy AI of spirits and your army of glass cannons. Sure, you can pull off a semi-decent Spirit army with [Assassin's promise] but you're still dealing with those crrrraaazy cast times there.

I'd just rather [spirit's [email protected]]/[splinter [email protected]]/[[email protected]] for big domage.

Big damage sais ye? Maybe my Splinter build is wrong, I found I fare better with spirit than Bow, maybe it's just me.

Well Pain and Blood generally last 2-3 fights (thk to summon spirit), Shadow is only usefull to take out attackers (begining of the fight vs melees and late vs the last ranged), and anguish is only 3 sec. That gives a 7-11 sec preparation every medium/big fights which can alway be cast at the beginning of the fight. I'm fine with that.
Crazzy cast time? 3 sec? Not even 4 sec on average?Crazy?(sorry for that, just sprang to mind)

Maybe it's my playstyle but they are only rarely attacked, did you tried using SUmmon Spirit to take them out of harm's way.
And buggy AI? generally they attack the first mob to enter range (which I'd kill anyway) and attack the Painful Bonded target... Maybe I'm just too patient notice they're innefficient.

EDIT : small typo

Tyla · Aug 19, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Probably, but I don't like spamming 2 skills every seconds. That's player taste here. Beside, it looks like we are arguing about which build is the best dmg dealer. In wich case, either you are right and there is no room for a dmg rit (making the class pointless), or it's the other way around (making mentioning the assassin pointless).

If you're a Ritualist? Buffing your melee with Splinter Weapon, and even Ancestor's Rage would yield greater damage while only taking up two slots. The rest of the slots can go to /Mo buffs (Looking at the Rt/Mo superbuffer here), Weapon of Warding, Protective Was Kaolai... You get it all.

Offensive Spirit Spamming isn't strong because it's single-target and the spirits can die near insantly because of several nerfs to it.

But whatever, run what you want because it's PvE and PvE is a place where anything works.

Nightow · Aug 19, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Big damage sais ye? Maybe my Splinter build is wrong, I found I fare better with spirit than Bow, maybe it's just me.

Well Pain and Blood generally last 2-3 fights (thk to summon spirit), Shadow is only usefull to take out attackers (begining of the fight vs melees and late vs the last ranged), and anguish is only 3 sec. That gives a 7-11 sec preparation every medium/big fights which can alway be cast at the beginning of the fight. I'm fine with that.
Crazzy cast time? 3 sec? Not even 4 sec on average?Crazy?(sorry for that, just sprang to mind)

I enjoy heroes as much as some other people on here but please get your facts straight.

Quote:

[Pain]+[bloodsong]+[anguish]+[shadowsong]+[wanderlust]/[dissonance]/[disenchantment]+[painful bond] = masive damage and disruption.

Half of those are 5 second casts. Sure, you can have all the prep time you want when in most PvE situations with H/H but why bother when you can use the same combo I mentioned with above with better results. Or, just do as Tyla said with even greater results.

Quote:

Maybe it's my playstyle but they are only rarely attacked, did you tried using SUmmon Spirit to take them out of harm's way.

[Summon Spirits] is a bit of a waste if you ask me but then again, having more than 1-2 spirits on your bar is already a waste.

Quote:

And buggy AI? generally they attack the first mob to enter range (which I'd kill anyway) and attack the Painful Bonded target... Maybe I'm just too patient notice they're innefficient.

I've seen plenty of times where spirits just float there and not do a single thing. Other times, they'd wait for a minute before attacking and then sometimes, sometimes they do exactly as you say. But still, relying on spirits just seems, well... unreliable.

P.S. - There's a reason why the last big update took two elite skills AWAY from communing.

P.S.2 - OP, where art thou? If he/she replied already with what they picked, we could just end this discussion...

Tyla · Aug 20, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

I've seen plenty of times where spirits just float there and not do a single thing. Other times, they'd wait for a minute before attacking and then sometimes, sometimes they do exactly as you say. But still, relying on spirits just seems, well... unreliable.

That's usually when they've been left alone with nothing there for about 30 seconds. I know they stop engaging completely at a certain point, but I'm not certain on the requirement that needs to be met.

Magikarp · Aug 20, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

And rits can't?

no... they cant. sure, rits can pull a lot of great moves out there on the field, but as far as actual healing/protting, monks have nearly infinite utility as opposed to the rits WoW, and a few blind moves. Not to mention, WoW is more or less their only form of "prot", whereas a monk has a whole line devoted to it. Smiting is very meta atm, and offers a very powerful array of support damage paired with equal utility in the form of prots and heals, where as channeling is great for support damage, it has very little actual support utility outside of Splinter and WW (which are good, im not downing these).

in therms of versatility, its nearly a 50/50 split, in terms of practicality and usability, the monk takes the cake with a landslide.

Nightow · Aug 20, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

no... they cant. sure, rits can pull a lot of great moves out there on the field, but as far as actual healing/protting, monks have nearly infinite utility as opposed to the rits WoW, and a few blind moves. Not to mention, WoW is more or less their only form of "prot", whereas a monk has a whole line devoted to it. Smiting is very meta atm, and offers a very powerful array of support damage paired with equal utility in the form of prots and heals, where as channeling is great for support damage, it has very little actual support utility outside of Splinter and WW (which are good, im not downing these).

in therms of versatility, its nearly a 50/50 split, in terms of practicality and usability, the monk takes the cake with a landslide.

Ok, yes we all know rits can't prot cause anet decided to nerf on spirits. I admit I was wrong on that part. (Seesh, gotta think about every little thing you say nowadays.

)

But you did miss a few skills... [Ancestors' Rage], [Nightmare Weapon], [Warmonger's Weapon].

credit · Aug 20, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Monks for outright prot/heals, rits for more party support.

Magikarp · Aug 20, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Ok, yes we all know rits can't prot cause anet decided to nerf on spirits. I admit I was wrong on that part. (Seesh, gotta think about every little thing you say nowadays.

)

But you did miss a few skills... [Ancestors' Rage], [Nightmare Weapon], [Warmonger's Weapon].

i didnt miss anything. i said Warmongers weapon (WW), and Rage is a damage skill.. not really a support skill..

as for NW.. meh.

Tyla · Aug 20, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

If Rage isn't a support skill then what is Splinter Weapon?

Nightow · Aug 20, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

i didnt miss anything. i said Warmongers weapon (WW), and Rage is a damage skill.. not really a support skill..

as for NW.. meh.

Sorry, missed that.

Can we just close this thread already? I think the OP has MORE than enough answers.

Magikarp · Aug 20, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If Rage isn't a support skill then what is Splinter Weapon?

its a matter of opinion i suppose. the way i see it, rage was more of a secondary damage tool used to defend the actual rit or spirits. rage didnt get really popular till a little before NF. but yeah, i see your point in the idea that it "supports" spikes etc.

on the other hand, splinter weapon is directly linked to damage dealing in the first place, and is obviously a support skill.

upier · Aug 20, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Can we just close this thread already? I think the OP has MORE than enough answers.

I doubt the OP is asking for advice.
I think he's just asking which option we prefer.

Steps_Descending · Aug 20, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

I enjoy heroes as much as some other people on here but please get your facts straight.

Can I just say that my spirit build got me some vanquish (HM) where I failed/barely made it in NM (you read well!) with some bow builds. Can you teach me how to play???

Quote:

Half of those are 5 second casts. Sure, you can have all the prep time you want when in most PvE situations with H/H but why bother when you can use the same combo I mentioned with above with better results. Or, just do as Tyla said with even greater results.

Let's see... Pain, BloodS,Anguish = 3 sec (stable on my bar)
Shadow song = 5 sec (Always there too)
Wanderlust OR Dissonance OR ... = 5 sec ( only have 1 of them at a time, they're expensive enough as it is)
Average : 3sec, 3sec, 3sec, 5sec, 5sec = under 4 sec on average for a given bar. 10 sec max before a fight.

Did I forget to mention it wasn't AoE. That means in area where massive pulls are needed you're screwed, if you're taken by surprise it takes some time (5-6 sec) to lay the basic spirits and there are chances they won't focus fire. I can't really deny that. Is it really that hard to avoid a surprise attack?

BTW Tyla, out of curiosity (no saracasm here, it really IS only curiosity), do you still log on?

Chucky333 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:33 AM // 09:33

When it comes to healing and protting, monks, hands down.
The rits strength is their verstality and the multiple roles you can take in the team, which monks dont have at all (Theyre role is always the healing\prot, and no i dont share any love for smiting).
This versatilty is also their biggest weakness.
Resto rits are not as effective as monks, channeling rits not as effective as eles, spirit spamming rits not as effective as most other support builds out there (namely, imbagons ^^).
Personally i have both (monk is my main) and i find that rits also has the biggest potential for damage\support hybrid builds.
I dont think any other proffesion can combine damage with support as well as rits can, and thats what i like the most about them.
In the end of the day it comes down to wether you're gonna enjoy healing\protting alone without the need for other options, in which case youre better off with monks, or if you like more verstality.
Just my 2 cents

Tyla · Aug 24, 2008, 02:39 PM // 14:39

^
Splinter Weapon > Ele damage.