Curse

-Lotus- · Jul 09, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

mesmers already are very useful in PVE and they have very good energy management, But a lot of pvers don't see the usefulness cause if its not ursan it sucks to them and fast casting is useful to the class cause a lot spells are 3secs and can be taken down to less then 2 secs with fast casting. Most NPCs use 1 attribute type power block can 100% knock out a NPC, and that saves you monks a lot of energy, most people just don't use mesmers right in pve

the same argument comes up evey time someone mentions mesmers failing at Pve. im sorry, its true, they suck. no, im not playing them wrong, your not playing other classes right. you fail to realize that GW characters get a primary and a SECONDARY profession. aside from SoI + PvE skill gimmicks, mesmer PRIMARIES do nothing better than another class. necros are better at domination stuff because of energy management, eles are better at casting ther own nukes and monks are better at healing and prot.

You can continue to delude yourself if you want, but i would like a useful mesmer for pve. the mesmer has always been a great class in PvP, but crap in PvE because any buffs would make them overpowered in PvP. with the PvP/PvE split they can finally be useful.

make mesmers useful please

KartMan · Jul 09, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

oh I just remember something I'd like for my mes :

make fast cast affect aftercast delay too, not only casting time

upier · Jul 09, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you cant make minions out of every thing :P

Hell's precipice is good at showing off how a lot of times minion masters are useless "zomg i said mm's are sometimes useless on a pve forum im so going to flamed" even if you make minions from the sparks they are just going to get killed in 1 hit and your basically going to have a leecher in your group. I went away from game a few moths ago to play CSS in CAL/TWL and after i got back i helped some 1 do Hells precipice and saw that they added a new thing at the end of the proh campaign, so i started doing it over with all my toons. A friend of a friend wanted to add a MM when they were helping me do it over, I asked them not to "cause we had 2 HB monks with no prots, needless to say i was scared s***less cause i love prots" but lucky i was on my mesmer so i just Power blocked 1 spark as i Cryed/Leech signeted/guilted the other 2 and the monks didnt even have to heal. Ive done this mission a lot since i got back and groups with mesmers fly passed the mission a lot faster than group that are w/o a mesmer cause have to go slower and die more than groups with mesmers

lesson of the story MESMERS OWN FACE and that every class suck next to other classes sometimes and every mission/quest has classes/builds that work best but sometimes people are to stupid to see it cause its not ursan or a nuker

Or you could have just brought some protection.
Hell - the monks kinda have a reason for being there.
The story would be completely different if your mesmer would be the reason that the monks didn't have to do anything for the WHOLE mission. But as long as you have them there - using a party slot so that they don't need to do anything vs. 10ish foes isn't reason enough to take a mesmer.
(When building a perfect party of course! For normal PvE - the mesmer will do just fine because of how much room PvE leaves for error.)

ajc2123 · Jul 09, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Now lets not make this a fighting thread. This is all about what you want, not what is practical or what needs or need not be changed. Please, I don't want this to be antother hate filled closed thread X_x.

Something Else I want, I know this is a pvp suggestion but I want PvP arenas for levels like 10, 15, 5 also. All pvp only characters will automatically be switched to those levels and have to use skills wisely with the low health, and attribute points. I miss Northern Shiverpeak RA. It was fun.

I also want a dwarven tavern where players gather to buy, sell, drink, sing, dance, whatever. I just like the idea of being in a dwarven tavern ^_^

Sometimes the music in areas don't play right away. I wish that would be fixed because sometimes I REALLY like it, but others I just turn on my ipod sooo..... lol

hmm can't think of any others atm.

Also, Clumsiness + wandering eye + echo = 300+ damage to AoE very very fast so....just saying....

exploiter · Jul 09, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I wish ecto to be again 5k AT LEAST...

kostolomac · Jul 09, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

ajc2123 made me remember something , give a 6 sec duration do ineptitude , clumsiness and wandering eye. It often happens that a monster stops attacking and runs away for no reason. Also clumsiness should have a reduced energy cost , it's a weaker version of wandering eye. Ineptitude should get a 15 sec recharge and visions of regret should trigger on every attack skill (with reduced damage of course).

@-Lotus-: mesmers don't suck in pve , but compared to other professions and thanks to general public opinion it seems like they do. I would rather take armor ignoring damage that follows the target rather than nukes that become useless in hard mode any day.

One more thing , FIX THE CLIPPING WITH THE MALE MESMER ARMORS ALREADY

JDRyder · Jul 09, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

the same argument comes up evey time someone mentions mesmers failing at Pve. im sorry, its true, they suck. no, im not playing them wrong, your not playing other classes right. you fail to realize that GW characters get a primary and a SECONDARY profession. aside from SoI + PvE skill gimmicks, mesmer PRIMARIES do nothing better than another class. necros are better at domination stuff because of energy management, eles are better at casting ther own nukes and monks are better at healing and prot.

You can continue to delude yourself if you want, but i would like a useful mesmer for pve. the mesmer has always been a great class in PvP, but crap in PvE because any buffs would make them overpowered in PvP. with the PvP/PvE split they can finally be useful.

make mesmers useful please

If you ever need energy as a mesmer in pve, your playing it wrong with skills like [guilt][shame][drain enchantment][power drain][leech signet] etc why do you need more energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Or you could have just brought some protection.
Hell - the monks kinda have a reason for being there.
The story would be completely different if your mesmer would be the reason that the monks didn't have to do anything for the WHOLE mission. But as long as you have them there - using a party slot so that they don't need to do anything vs. 10ish foes isn't reason enough to take a mesmer.
(When building a perfect party of course! For normal PvE - the mesmer will do just fine because of how much room PvE leaves for error.)

even when i re did the mission on other chars with good monks i added in a mesmer hero and PS was not need for sparks. Yes the monks did heal some but even if you had a MM, monks still need to heal.

What do you mean foes are not a good enough reason to bring a mesmer? Why not just solo every mission w/o heros, henchman or other players than?

Its not about leaving room for error, every time a mesmer or ranger interrupts something useful other than spamming Dshot and leech signet like a F***ing retard, Thats 10 to 15 energy monks don't have to use, meaning your party is stronger and less likely to die. If you were going for "the perfect party" seems a little room for error will be welcome ad in any way.

PVE'ers seems like they are picking at every little thing about mesmers to make people think they are useless. If people were to pick at any other class like they pick at mesmer every class will be 100% useless

upier · Jul 09, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

even when i re did the mission on other chars with good monks i added in a mesmer hero and PS was not need for sparks. Yes the monks did heal some but even if you had a MM, monks still need to heal.

What do you mean foes are not a good enough reason to bring a mesmer? Why not just solo every mission w/o heros, henchman or other players than?

Its not about leaving room for error, every time a mesmer or ranger interrupts something useful other than spamming Dshot and leech signet like a F***ing retard, Thats 10 to 15 energy monks don't have to use, meaning your party is stronger and less likely to die. If you were going for "the perfect party" seems a little room for error will be welcome ad in any way.

So you brought two monks with you.
The fact that they don't need to do on certain occasions means NOTHING if you can't switch out a monk for a different role.
You are still running two monks.
You didn't do anything special. You just did your part. And just doing your part means that you are expendable.
You didn't bring anything to the party that others couldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

PVE'ers seems like they are picking at every little thing about mesmers to make people think they are useless. If people were to pick at any other class like they pick at mesmer every class will be 100% useless

Nope - some classes just ARE godly.

Better mesmer PvE options is a VERY legitimate request.
So lets just leave it there.

JDRyder · Jul 09, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

So you brought two monks with you.
The fact that they don't need to do on certain occasions means NOTHING if you can't switch out a monk for a different role.
You are still running two monks.
You didn't do anything special. You just did your part. And just doing your part means that you are expendable.
You didn't bring anything to the party that others couldn't.

No id didn't do any thing special just as ele does not do any thing special when they use AoE spells and every class is expendable
Yes mesmers do bring something that other classes cant

and i didnt get the monk part :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Nope - some classes just ARE godly.

Better mesmer PvE options is a VERY legitimate request.
So lets just leave it there.

Builds are only as good as you play it some builds are just easier to play than others. Mesmer is not hard to play but most people have a hard time playing them due to lack of knowing how to play them cause its not a damage class and any time you say "scan targets and hit 1, 2 or 3 when they use something useful" it seems it become a impassable task

buckscrib · Jul 09, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KartMan

put back frozen chest and lost strongbox
remove inscriptions
make hoh/zaishen chest drop uninsc stuff

Yes.

upier · Jul 09, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

No id didn't do any thing special just as ele does not do any thing special when they use AoE spells and every class is expendable
Yes mesmers do bring something that other classes cant

and i didnt get the monk part :P

You didn't contribute enough to the team (although you brag about it by saying that the monks didn't have to do anything vs. certain foes) which if you did - could result result in being able to run with only one monk (because you are preventing damage!).
If you bring an Imbagon - you are mostly able to run with only one monk.
What you did - was just full up the remaining slots.
And your slot could be filled by various other options.
You could run BHA (for one foe) and interrupts for the other.
You could run an assassin - interrupts, KD, ...
You once again - could run a Barrage ranger - onto which the ritualist would drop Warmongers.
OR could just send in the warrior first - prot him - and he'd take all the almost (then non-existent) beating, you wouldn't have to bother healing the party much and the guy would still be able to perform the shutdown role.
Those are all other options - since you aren't filling a required role, but are rather just an extra.

Now the big question appears what happens when you don't run into Sparks.
What happens if you run into warriors or rangers?
Barrage/Warmongers still works.
BHA doesn't.
The assassin would still have the KD.
The warrior can still be protted - sent in - and the guy takes non-existent damage.
Your PB and your Guilt will be useless.

And it's because of that - the warrior would be a better choice.
The guy will be able to work with a pretty much the same efficiency at each foe you run into.
So you have certain classes that work that way. And you'd want to fill up the rest of the party by guys that would work well with those guys.
And the mesmer has nothing (in the PvE sense of course!) to offer to those guys.
So what you are left with is - the mesmer not being one of the best options which would demand a slot in the party NOR is it one of the best options to support the best options.
And then you have 10 classes - and 8 party slots.
It's not important which class is the worst - what matters is which class isn't the best!
And the mesmer isn't among the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Builds are only as good as you play it some builds are just easier to play than others. Mesmer is not hard to play but most people have a hard time playing them due to lack of knowing how to play them cause its not a damage class and any time you say "scan targets and hit 1, 2 or 3 when they use something useful" it seems it become a impassable task

Surprisingly - probably the best mesmer PvE option is (pretty much) C+Space followed by AP (1) +3 PvE skills (2,3,4) and 5-8 - which mostly includes additional chaos nukes.
Foe dies - you start at 1 again.

ajc2123 · Jul 09, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

come on knock it off. This isn't about mesmers, its just a wishlist. Anymore fighting and a mod is gonna close me >_<

One more thing for a PVE suggestion wishlist thingie, Is I want to explore the Northern Ring of Fire looking Island! In GW2 it will probably be there but, I WANNA GO NOW >_<

MisterT69 · Jul 09, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by exploiter

I wish ecto to be again 5k AT LEAST...

Why? Because you realized you made a terrible investment in ectos and now they're worth s***. I'd be happier once they become cheaper than shards so people realize how stupid they were to invest an item with no sort of fallback to it.

And I agree about the mesmer PVE buff idea. Mah mes needs some more epic damage XD

ajc2123 · Jul 09, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

OH OH Make hammers have like a 5% chance to KD from regular hits!!!!

And I know that some monsters can't be KD because their massive, BUT at least make the KD interrupt them! I mean, A massive blow has to do something right?

JDRyder · Jul 09, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You didn't contribute enough to the team (although you brag about it by saying that the monks didn't have to do anything vs. certain foes) which if you did - could result result in being able to run with only one monk (because you are preventing damage!).
If you bring an Imbagon - you are mostly able to run with only one monk.
What you did - was just full up the remaining slots.
And your slot could be filled by various other options.
You could run BHA (for one foe) and interrupts for the other.
You could run an assassin - interrupts, KD, ...
You once again - could run a Barrage ranger - onto which the ritualist would drop Warmongers.
OR could just send in the warrior first - prot him - and he'd take all the almost (then non-existent) beating, you wouldn't have to bother healing the party much and the guy would still be able to perform the shutdown role.
Those are all other options - since you aren't filling a required role, but are rather just an extra.

Now the big question appears what happens when you don't run into Sparks.
What happens if you run into warriors or rangers?
Barrage/Warmongers still works.
BHA doesn't.
The assassin would still have the KD.
The warrior can still be protted - sent in - and the guy takes non-existent damage.
Your PB and your Guilt will be useless.

yes any monk that 1/2 knows what hes doing is able to do most missions with as a solo monk, you dont need a mesmer for that but it does make life easier.

yes theres about 4million ways to do something but

not every thing can be KDed,
Rangers are not as good at support as mesmers
Mesmers have a lot of anti melee for when you run in to run in to rangers, wars etc like[Clumsiness][Empathy][Ineptitude][Signet of Clumsiness][Signet of Midnight] etc
how are you going to say PB/guilt etc are useless? If you think like that any class that is not monk or ele is useless.

ajc2123 · Jul 09, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

DOES NO ONE LISTEN TO THE OP ANYMORE? THIS THREAD IS ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT IN PVE, NOT ABOUT WHY MESMERS ARE GOOD OR BAD. LEAVE IT ALONE AND GET BACK ON TOPIC PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EE

Honestly, do you REALLY have to prove your right to a complete stranger on the internet? Let people think what they want man >_<

-Lotus- · Jul 09, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

mesmers being good or bad is on topic. they suck as of now, my wish is for them to not suck.

@ JD, please stop. if you can provide one reason that mesmer PRIMARIES are useful in PvE you have a valid point. can they do anything better than another primary profession other than abuse a few PvE skills with SoI. Remember that mesmer skills can be used by mesmer secondaries, no one is saying clumsieness and wandering eye suck (ineptitude is decent as well, but the recharge is hideous), but the point is that the primary profession offers no advantage over other primaries.

if you cant think of a reason why mesmer primaries are useful, please stop clogging this thread and taking it on a train straight to closed-ville.

thank you

PS. no more minion limit please. also restore Depravity to it's pre-nerfed state, that skill had potential.

Gibz · Jul 09, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Skills
-All EoTN PvE skills: restricted to their respective areas.(can only use norn skills in norn areas etc)
-Save Yourselves: Reduce armor gain to 50
-Dragon Slash: Decrease adrenaline gain
-Shadow Form: Reduce duration
-Protective Spirit: Ends after 10 hits (like spirit bond)

Elite Areas
-Give all monsters secondary professions and better skill bars.
stuff like Rending Touch on aatxes, power drain + leech signet on Priests of Menzies, d-shot on dredge rangers etc etc

JDRyder · Jul 10, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Over the last few days I've been making over my monk and 1 more thing id like to see "less to do with having skills" is make it so when you make your search window bigger, it gets bigger :P now even if you make it take up all your screen the text does not get longer and i cant see what some people have on their list of WTS when trading cause half of it is cut off :P

Master Necromanz · Jul 10, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Nobody says anything about blood magic, the most useless attribute in the game I think. Cmon make it useful, the necro has not so many great skills (in PvE), if the necro has some buffs in blood magic, people play more necro or play another builds instead of the generic heal, support, ss and mm shit...

But SR is oke ^^ :P