Curse

Abedeus · Jul 31, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

My point is made, and I didn't see any new rebuttal besides pure insults and flames the next morning. I guess my job on this thread, is now done.

Finally. Now stop posting your blasphemies.

DarkSpirit · Jul 31, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Can't see any insults or flames since your last post, 'cept from Koning. I'm trying not to joke about your warped perceptions. It's very hard.

People like you are exactly why I love Livia and MoW (yes, that's an insult).

Dont worry I usually go with H/H on serious missions. I would only party up with you guys when I want some laughs.

Bobby2 · Jul 31, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Dont worry I usually go with H/H on serious missions. I would only party up with you guys when I want some laughs.

Now see, this is a flame. You're learning already.

Koning · Aug 01, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Dont worry I usually go with H/H on serious missions. I would only party up with you guys when I want some laughs.

Hahahaha do you think we want such a ignorant guy as you in our guild...

DarkSpirit · Aug 01, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koning

Hahahaha do you think we want such a ignorant guy as you in our guild...

You dont have to. You are entertaining enough from over here.

Tyla · Aug 01, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

/Facepalm.

Dark Spirit, you really know how to go against your own words don't you?

First you're against us "flaming" you when the majority of the posts weren't even flames, now you're going against us with flames.

Abedeus · Aug 01, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

I told you Snow already asploded his brains out. That's why he's going aginst his own blasphemies.

Btw, TAM could replace Tyla with you. They would FINALLY have a true blue noob instead of a Tyla-like poser ;[

-Lotus- · Aug 02, 2008, 05:07 AM // 05:07

/lock please

this is immature and stupid

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 02, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Back on topic, to answer the OP's question....

imo, The best classes for pure damage (not counting utility such as "SY" etc) in this order:

- MS/DS sin
- N/A Sin's Promise nec with the right PvE skills.
- D-slash War
- Paragon

Their effectiveness changes all the time. Each has counters, but some arn't as common as others. Of course it's always good to have a mix of them all, but I'm actually not a big fan of Warriors in PvE. I'd take a Sin over one. Sure they can't KD-lock or spam "SY" as well, but their DPS is much more massive. And built-in armor-ignoring AoE damage is just great. I'll leave the defense to the Para's.

I didn't even bother to read half of that junk in this thread but the "casters arn't meant for damage" thing is BS. That's true in PvP, but this isn't PvP. Depending on the build/area/etc, caster damage can easily compete with phys classes in PvE.

cellardweller · Aug 02, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Back on topic, to answer the OP's question....

imo, The best classes for pure damage (not counting utility such as "SY" etc) in this order:

- MS/DS sin
- N/A Sin's Promise nec with the right PvE skills.

- VoS Dervish
- AP/CoP Mes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

- D-slash War
- Paragon

The problem with the VoS derv is the lack of synergy with other high damage builds. Despite being able to pump out a steady 130+ dps aoe dps, it's doing holy damage and is therefore unable to benefit from the barbs/mop/orders.

DarkSpirit · Aug 03, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

- VoS Dervish
- AP/CoP Mes

The problem with the VoS derv is the lack of synergy with other high damage builds. Despite being able to pump out a steady 130+ dps aoe dps, it's doing holy damage and is therefore unable to benefit from the barbs/mop/orders.

Agree. MS/DS sin or VoS derv can dish out very high 100+ or even 150+ aoe dps on a 2-characters team. I tested it with MS/DB sin+Sab's MM then with VoS derv+Sab's MM.

But MoP+Barbs+Ebon Vanguard Assassin+other 2 other PvE skills, along with a fiend MM, can hit 200+ DPS over 5 seconds on a 2 necro team (i.e. 1 fiend MM and the other curse). But this damage is less consistant and depends heavily on the number of fiend and minions the MM has.

link: http://home1.gte.net/~res0iq2d/GW/MoPDmg.jpg

...so much for the "casters arn't meant for damage" idea.

EDIT:

Here is one using MS with the same MM build: http://home1.gte.net/~res0iq2d/GW/MSDmg.jpg

Abedeus · Aug 03, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I thought you said you would stop posting here. In real fight vs 5-6 mobs your DPS from Barbs is GREATLY lowered. Casters-are-meant-for-support. Repeat after me, meant-for-support. Stop trying to convince everyone that sabway/discordway is the best at everything.

And stop posting, stop going against your own words.

Quote:

I guess my job on this thread, is now done.

It's done, we get it, shoo.

DarkSpirit · Aug 03, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I thought you said you would stop posting here. In real fight vs 5-6 mobs your DPS from Barbs is GREATLY lowered. Casters-are-meant-for-support. Repeat after me, meant-for-support. Stop trying to convince everyone that sabway/discordway is the best at everything.

I wasn't using sabway or discordway for the MoP build, it was a variant of Moloch's MoP-AP nuker. I didn't even bother to squeeze the highest damage possible into the build and chose to bring along utility spells, as in those carried for general PvE, instead.

You saw it for yourself that casters can generate very high DPS even though you kept denying all the evidences I throw at you, which I expected you to anyway.

Koning · Aug 03, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

It's now a few days later but you still fail and haven't even tried to clear FoW in a fast time with your casters.

Stop.Posting.Pls.You.Fail.

Go buff some physical up with SoH, orders, great dwarf/splinter weapon, Ebon standard of honor and change your opinion pls. Now.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 03, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Specific caster builds can easily, and sometimes outdo phys classes. AP + PvE skills can turn any caster into a solo DPS machine (assuming max ranks). Ebon Sin does around 190+ vs squishies. "Finish Him" is an insta-cast 80 + 100 (deep wound). Necrosis is a decent DPS skill. Cry of Pain is powerful when being constantly recharged by AP.

You just can't argue with things like Cry of Pain. 100dmg AREA-wide is massive. Of course, you won't see it often cause people arn't gonna max their SS for this skill alone. They'd rather max Ursan - it's alot more flexible when it comes to PuG'ing and doing other stuff. Another reason you won't see it often is cause many people want effortless speed clears - Ursan/Phys teams can both lazily c-space and still deal high damage.

Still though, I honestly would be surprised if a well-organized CoP team had a slower clear time compared to an Ursan/Phys group. It might be abit slower depending on the area though.

People need to realize this is PvE. The rules of physical classes being the best and only source of damage doesn't apply here. PvP is where the casters are meant for support. I'm not dis'ing phys here....if I could build a team from scratch, there'd be a mix of both. They work better in groups. The point I'm making is that the belief of casters not being able to do high damage on their own is pure ignorance.

Accursed · Aug 03, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

A profession suggestion for PvE Hard Mode? I have known. All profession's can work extremely well [with or without Ursan] if you know how to play them.

Off-Topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I wasn't using sabway or discordway for the MoP build, it was a variant of Moloch's MoP-AP nuker. I didn't even bother to squeeze the highest damage possible into the build and chose to bring along utility spells, as in those carried for general PvE, instead.

You saw it for yourself that casters can generate very high DPS even though you kept denying all the evidences I throw at you, which I expected you to anyway.

Flame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You dont have to. You are entertaining enough from over here.

More flame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Dont worry I usually go with H/H on serious missions. I would only party up with you guys when I want some laughs.

Even more flame? Geeze, your like the ultimate flamer here, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

/lock please

this is immature and stupid

Quoted for truth.

DarkSpirit · Aug 04, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

People need to realize this is PvE. The rules of physical classes being the best and only source of damage doesn't apply here. PvP is where the casters are meant for support. I'm not dis'ing phys here....if I could build a team from scratch, there'd be a mix of both. They work better in groups. The point I'm making is that the belief of casters not being able to do high damage on their own is pure ignorance.

Yes, with Ursan, even casters can melee and KD. Trying to apply general pvp rules on profession roles around profession agnostic pve skills just doesn't make sense.

When I did the damage test with Master of Damage, Master of damage never dies, so AP has no effect on him. His adjacent targets do "die" but they take awhile to come back to "live". Casting MoP on Master of damage about every 30s ensured that his adjacent targets stay down very quickly. In actual fights, even higher damage can be achieved as skills refresh through AP, but positioning is the main problem for MoP builds.

Tyla · Aug 04, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

An Ursan isn't a caster or a physical. The thing is, casters can deal high damage. I'm not denying that, but physicals outdo the majority of casters. The only build it can't is Cry of Pain, but that needs an entire team to function at maximum damage.

The beauty of CoP is that it can be used on any class to maximum effect. Ether Nightmare allows this to happen with alot of degeneration.

But seriously, this argument shouldn't continue past the point where people understand that all classes working together, be it the class being support or whatever will create an extremely strong team build.

JDRyder · Aug 04, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Trying to apply general pvp rules on profession roles around profession agnostic pve skills just doesn't make sense.

that line does not make a lot of sense as well "agnostic" guessing you were trying to say pvp rules do not apply to pve

Most people on guru don't get that a lot of this stuff is not "general pvp rules" they are general game rules. Just cause a skill or tactic that is used in pvp does not mean that it does not apply or can be used in pve. Things like moving out of AoE, killing the monk, Shutting down/killing things that hurt you most, calling targets etc etc, are all used in pvp but they are not pvp only rules, they are common sense, same for builds, wep sets, armor, etc

DarkSpirit · Aug 04, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

that line does not make a lot of sense as well "agnostic" guessing you were trying to say pvp rules do not apply to pve

Read: profession-agnostic pve skill