Curse

DarkSpirit · Jul 28, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

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Originally Posted by Tyla

What? This skill blew up archers in GvG and pressured extremely well. If it was effected by armour it would be far less effective, especially now.

Then I guess it wasn't overpowered in PvP am I right?

I dont know what you are talking about, what is overpowered? Splinter?

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Oh, and anything works in PvE so I don't know what point was there.

Since anything works in PvE, so we can all throw away every single effective PvE build now?

Reality is, not everything works well in PvE. Otherwise wammos with mending would rule HM right now.

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Mobs blow up with Dervs 'n' shit easily anyway, regardless of MoP. For maximum benefit of the scythe you need to have field awareness too, for the same reason as MoP.

So can necros, as can be seen in my screenshot.

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Originally Posted by shadowmage61

It's funny how dark tried to say that necros are better in HM because they can't be blocked/blinded/snared like warriors and other physical classes, and uses a MoP necro with minions (who, as physicals, are subject to the same shutdowns) as one of his examples...

With so many minions, do I care if 1 minion is blinded? Really, do you expect monks to remove conditions from minions?

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The fact of the matter is that having a human playing on a physical with another human supporting them (monk, necro, rit, etc...) is better than minions in most circumstances. Minions can't call when they have blind, don't switch targets when they should, tend to get bodyblocked in all the wrong places, and won't focus on important targets as they attack with impunity. IMO the only thing minions are better at than human physicals is blowing up while enchanted with death nova

Fiends dont get bodyblocked and DO focus on called targets as I have shown. MM bombing is just 1 way to play a MM, there are many other viable ways to play a MM.

An MM with expensive fiends doesn't make sense to use them as bombs since they stay mostly in the backlines. At 25e per fiend, they make expensive bombs even for a necro since you get less energy back even if SR triggers when a fiend dies. If you want to go minion bombing, it makes more sense to use bone minions rather than fiends. Bone minions are cheap, weak, you get 2 per corpse, and they stay in the frontlines during battles so they make better bombs than fiends do.

payne · Jul 28, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

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Originally Posted by Tyla

Well Barrage / Volley + Splinter blows PvE up, and BHA is pure sex as far as single target damage goes. You can also make it AoE though if you really want.

hmm...orgasmic elite skill? ^^

anywho [skill]broad head arrow[/skill] + [skill]epidemic[/skill] = pure orgasmic sex in PvE recks caster mobs

rangers are so versatile its hard to not include one in your party IMO

------------------------------------------

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Originally Posted by Da Rk Bl Ad E

[broad head arrow] + [animate bone minions] x 5 + [barbs] = yes <<<< aaaaaaaaaaaaaah YES

But everyone runs Sabway anyway, right? <<< WHAT? SINCE WHEN???

<><><><><>><><><><>yes I am sitting at my PC after getting back from a party having drunk way to much and am in a fairly *cough* insane mood - thus explaining my general post and the general sex references - enjoy it :P

cheap dutch lager ftw <<<off-topic ftw ;P

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 28, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

hmm...orgasmic elite skill? ^^

anywho [skill]broad head arrow[/skill] + [skill]epidemic[/skill] = pure orgasmic sex in PvE recks caster mobs

rangers are so versatile its hard to not include one in your party IMO

wanna bet?

3 paras, orders derv, 2 wars, 2 monks. blow stuff up with your hard armor, pointy spears, strong heals, and brave imbagon.
edit: or even better (especially for the six man areas) combine the two wars and two monks into two wammos.
pew pew pew
oh and if you have humans run lots of wounding strike dervs.
lol, am hittin u wit mah sithe

kostolomac · Jul 28, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

The truth is , neither physicals nor casters do the most damage , but together they do

Might be a bit cheesy , but it's the truth.

If the op wants to do everything solo with h/h the a physical class is better since you can use SY!.

Snoes · Jul 28, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

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Originally Posted by kostolomac

The truth is , neither physicals nor casters do the most damage , but together they do

Might be a bit cheesy , but it's the truth.

If the op wants to do everything solo with h/h the a physical class is better since you can use SY!.

QFT

Anything works in pve, just grab some: melee, mop, barbs, SY!, aoe ....

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 28, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoes

QFT

Anything works in pve, just grab some: melee, mop, barbs, SY!, aoe ....

SY+TntF+about 7 spears to the face says hi to pve
actually more like 4 spears and 3 scythes

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I dont know what you are talking about, what is overpowered? Splinter?

Splinter.

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Since anything works in PvE, so we can all throw away every single effective PvE build now?

To discuss what is more effective is best. My point was on Splinter Weapon. I don't think Mark of Pain has ever been nerfed for PvP.

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Reality is, not everything works well in PvE. Otherwise wammos with mending would rule HM right now.

And they don't already?

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So can necros, as can be seen in my screenshot.

What is your point? I thought Necros can kill stuff too, as can every other profession?

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With so many minions, do I care if 1 minion is blinded? Really, do you expect monks to remove conditions from minions?

Same with melee. You can have four Dervs, ES Warrior, Imbagon, Curses Support Necro and a Monk. If one physical gets blinded, you lose effectiveness. It's the exact same with minions.

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Fiends dont get bodyblocked and DO focus on called targets as I have shown. MM bombing is just 1 way to play a MM, there are many other viable ways to play a MM.

Be so kind to show a screenshot of all seven hitting the same target in clear view. The enemies were all bunched up, and as I said earlier it could be three out of seven fiends hitting one target for the MoP hitting three enemies.

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An MM with expensive fiends doesn't make sense to use them as bombs since they stay mostly in the backlines. At 25e per fiend, they make expensive bombs even for a necro since you get less energy back even if SR triggers when a fiend dies. If you want to go minion bombing, it makes more sense to use bone minions rather than fiends. Bone minions are cheap, weak, you get 2 per corpse, and they stay in the frontlines during battles so they make better bombs than fiends do.

The thing is, minions provide bodyblocking ability, can blow up with enemies killing it for armour ignoring damage and more. I would only use fiends in an Order of Undeath build to be quite honest with you.

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Originally Posted by Payne

rangers are so versatile its hard to not include one in your party IMO

You joined TAM alliance?

Err... what I ment to say was...

Agreed. They can melee with decent defense with a little less damage than the original class, take AoE shutdown and D-Shot is one of the best skills in the game, period. Non-elite twenty second shutdown of a skill, usable to all classes for it's full extent.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

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Originally Posted by Tyla

The thing is, minions provide bodyblocking ability, can blow up with enemies killing it for armour ignoring damage and more. I would only use fiends in an Order of Undeath build to be quite honest with you.

That's because you have chosen to limit yourself.

Minions provide more than just body blocking and there are obviously more than 1 type of minions in the game. Don't be so narrow-minded.

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

That's because you have chosen to limit yourself.

Because I see minions more effective? I didn't "choose" to limit myself, I chose something that in my view is superior.

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Minions provide more than just body blocking and there are obviously more than 1 type of minions in the game. Don't be so narrow-minded.

If you read the post there is more than just bodyblocking for it. As for narrow-mindedness, I, again see them superior in my view. Why would I run fiends when I can defend and blow my minions up for AoE armour-ignoring damage while Splinter Volleying / Barraging on the midline and blowing the mostly secure mob up? What about securing them in place while AoE'ing them with my whatever class? Paragon exluded ofcourse.

PS: I wonder when this little flamefest gets deleted, and I'll be thankful when it does. Either way, answering every one of them is funny.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you read the post there is more than just bodyblocking for it. As for narrow-mindedness, I, again see them superior in my view. Why would I run fiends when I can defend and blow my minions up for AoE armour-ignoring damage while Splinter Volleying / Barraging on the midline and blowing the mostly secure mob up? What about securing them in place while AoE'ing them with my whatever class? Paragon exluded ofcourse.

Why blow a 25e minion up that stays in the backline and would not hurt any monsters far away?

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why blow a 25e minion up that stays in the backline and would not hurt any monsters far away?

A 25E minion that stays in range not hurting monsters far away? What?

"Why would I run fiends if I can blow my minions up for AoE armour ignoring..."

Please read that again.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

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Originally Posted by Tyla

A 25E minion that stays in range not hurting monsters far away? What?

"Why would I run fiends if I can blow my minions up for AoE armour ignoring..."

Please read that again.

Duh...MoP? Fiends have better targeting and faster attack. MoP, if it is setup right, out-damages death nova.

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I don't understand what the hell you're saying here.

As for fiends & MoP, I prefer the melee for PBAoE bombs. Simply because of the fact I abuse the stupid AI and it often clumps together on the minions.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I don't understand what the hell you're saying here.

As for fiends & MoP, I prefer the melee for PBAoE bombs. Simply because of the fact I abuse the stupid AI and it often clumps together on the minions.

Why would you prefer the lower damage strategy over the higher damage strategy?

Your question was: ""Why would I run fiends if I can blow my minions up for AoE armour ignoring..."

And my answer is: "Fiends have better targeting and faster attack. MoP, if it is setup right, out-damages death nova."

A well setup MoP kills the entire mob in seconds with a single cast of MoP. Try doing that with a death nova.

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why would you prefer the lower damage strategy over the higher damage strategy?

Once again, in my perspective I see it as more effective. I can also take MoP, run a scythe and Wounding Strike, Splinter Weapon and the mob blows up too because they are locked in place. Bodyblocking used as both a defensive and offensive ability wins.

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Your question was: ""Why would I run fiends if I can blow my minions up for AoE armour ignoring..."

And my answer is: "Fiends have better targeting and faster attack. MoP, if it is setup right, out-damages death nova."

Once again show me a better and more clear screenshot. Show how many enemies are there with Ctrl or something to make sure that evidence is better shown. I'm not going to explain why it's not clear again.

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A well setup MoP kills the entire mob in seconds with a single cast of MoP. Try doing that with a death nova.

Death Nova can't do that, but team synergy can. Scythe, Splinter, win. Well, any form of AoE damage to be exact. MoP is effective to add to the mix too.

And once again: Why are we discussing the viability of minions and MoP when I already understand they are effective? Especialy when you can get the same but more by having a completely coordinated human team and maybe an MM if they're really as effective as you say.

Snow Bunny · Jul 29, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

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Originally Posted by alundro

[Hundred Blades] + [Sun and Moon Slash] + [Whirlwind Attack]
[Triple Chop] + [Cyclone Axe] + [Whirlwind Attack]

Thats the highest DPS a warrior is gonna get. It still doesnt do more than an SS necro though.

No it's not.

[Dragon Slash] + ["For Great Justice!"] + [Flail] is the highest a warrior can get.

But don't mind me, just passing through....

Windf0rce · Jul 29, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

The truth is , neither physicals nor casters do the most damage , but together they do

Might be a bit cheesy , but it's the truth.

If the op wants to do everything solo with h/h the a physical class is better since you can use SY!.

True that, and considering I have more fun slashing things with my daggers, than using support curses, I chose the sin.

This thread has some interesting discussion, it shows both sins (melee as a whole) and necros can be successful, even more if working to make their skills synergize together. I'm using Moebius, Death Blossom, Critical Agility, Splinter Weapon, Warmongers Weapon, Barbs, Mark of Pain, Spiteful Spirit on my team and things die fast in Hard Mode. I'm pretty happy now on how effective it is and in that I play a role I have fun: direct damage.

Now I just need to AB a little and get "Save Yourselves!". Don't have it yet. :P

Bobby2 · Jul 29, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Right.

If you run an Orders Derv/Nec, or Morgahn with [[Anthem of Fury], or sthing like that, rank 3 Lux/Kurz is all you need.

DarkSpirit · Jul 29, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

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Originally Posted by Tyla

Once again, in my perspective I see it as more effective. I can also take MoP, run a scythe and Wounding Strike, Splinter Weapon and the mob blows up too because they are locked in place. Bodyblocking used as both a defensive and offensive ability wins.

Ok, since you keep insisting so much on finding a melee to help out with your MoP, then go ahead. I see no point to continue arguing about this. I can easily do MoP with fiends even from a hero MM though, which gives me greater control to keep the MoP target alive while triggering.

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Once again show me a better and more clear screenshot. Show how many enemies are there with Ctrl or something to make sure that evidence is better shown. I'm not going to explain why it's not clear again.

Why should I? If you have already made up your mind that fiends would not work well with MoP, despite the screenshot that I have already showed, then no matter how many more screenshots I show wouldn't convince you otherwise.

Besides when MoP is setup right, everything dies so fast, that you hardly have the time to take so many screenshots. I had to camp my finger on the printscreen key, spam afew screenshots before I came up with a good one.

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Death Nova can't do that, but team synergy can.

And once again: Why are we discussing the viability of minions and MoP when I already understand they are effective? Especialy when you can get the same but more by having a completely coordinated human team and maybe an MM if they're really as effective as you say.

That's not saying much is it? Anyone can always drop this in an argument, "Oh, we dont need <insert build/idea to diss>, as long as we have good team synergy we would always win the game!" So what's your point?

Tyla · Jul 29, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why should I? If you have already made up your mind that fiends would not work well with MoP, despite the screenshot that I have already showed, then no matter how many more screenshots I show wouldn't convince you otherwise.

It's called photographic evidence. Anyone could bullshit all they want, so please provide a screenshot.

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Besides when MoP is setup right, everything dies so fast, that you hardly have the time to take so many screenshots. I had to camp my finger on the printscreen key, spam afew screenshots before I came up with a good one.

Needs more Ctrl.

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That's not saying much is it? Anyone can always drop this in an argument, "Oh, we dont need this, as long as we have good team synergy we would always win the game!" So what's your point?

Lots of physicals + Orders with 10 spec Splinter + Curses buffer = boom.