Curse

Racthoh · Feb 18, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

To Racthoh's post: With a zealous spear I have no trouble keeping up Flurry.

Okay so not only are you lowering your damage by 25% you're also denying yourself access to a vampiric prefix. Flurry was okay to use back in Prophecies PvE because it still provided a slightly higher damage output and faster adrenaline gain compared to a warrior that had no IAS. Now that we have skills like Aggressive Refrain and Flail which basically have no drawback in a PvE context there is no reason to use Flurry anymore. You might see it used on PvP sins as daggers have a terrible base damage anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

ToF is overkill? What kind of argument is that? It's like saying healing Monks shouldn't use prot spells (dismiss condition, prot spirit).

In addition to what Shaz already said using ToF also forces me to have a source of burning. If I have a second paragon and a Mind Blast ele I won't stop that paragon from using They're On Fire! if they really want to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

And I wasn't talking about Easy Mode (because anything can work there). Besides, TNtF lasts 12 out of 20 seconds so it's nice to have something while it's not up.

Have something while it's not up? "Save Yourselves!" maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

So it's ok for Monks to drop smiting skills and a rez for more healing/protecting

Okay well I have no clue what the hell smiting monks take because I tend not to use weak bars. And since when did monks start to carry a hard res again? If you want to stop healing/protting for 6 seconds to cast Ressurection Chant and let something else die while that happens then go right ahead. Also by using Smiting Prayers you're investing into a 4th attribute tree meaning you're going to have weaker prot, heals, or a small divine favor bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

but it's not ok for defensive Paragons to drop an attack skill. Ok, that makes perfect sense to me.

Defensive Paragon? Look at the attributes Ensign posted: 14 spear. This paragon is here to deal damage while providing an absurd amount of defense. Based on the way you're posting about using Flurry, a zealous spear, and 14 leadership it sounds like you may use your paragon entirely for defense, but the 'imbagon' is more than capable of providing its share of the offense. Not only that but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

With Mark of Rodgort, the SF ele can keep all foes in a nearby area constantly burning. Think of this ele as the "midliner"

I do agree that its damage is pathetic in HM, but 7 degeneration isn't that bad and it can work pretty nice with Winter against fiery foes.

You're also using your ele as more of a defensive tool; using the elite slot (and another slot on their bar) on another character to fuel redundant defense.

blue.rellik · Feb 19, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

With Mark of Rodgort, the SF ele can keep all foes in a nearby area constantly burning. Think of this ele as the "midliner"

I do agree that its damage is pathetic in HM, but 7 degeneration isn't that bad and it can work pretty nice with Winter against fiery foes.

And what happens when you don't get burning on everything? Or in situations when energy is very low?

A build that can unconditionally power out it's gimmicks will nearly always be superior to a build that requires certain actions involved on the enemy to do it's thing. Racthoh's build can do it's thing two four seven, you are just a bunch of punching bags when you fight things that don't stand still or Destroyers

xDusT II · Feb 19, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

"They're on Fire!" is redundant defence on an Imbagon. Only take as much defence as you need. If you want to load up a team build with a massive defence ball, go ahead, but eventually you'll start removing the unnecessary components and replacing them with skills that provide a more useful function, in this case, contributing to offence.

Washi · Feb 19, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

There is 13AL (Correction) req7 Paragon shields for sale in Blacktide Den.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Farzi

Those have +20HP mod, can you replace that? If not then it's pretty pointless.

odly · Feb 19, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

I found a Al 15 req 8 shield yesterday. Inscribable. It dropped in Mehtani keys in normal mode. So that's an indication of where to look for them.

Only problem is, It was req 8 in strenght. I don't think a warrior needs a low req shield. He's bound to have either high strength or tactics, doesn't he. (I don't play warriors...)

Yichi · Feb 19, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

I found a Al 15 req 8 shield yesterday. Inscribable. It dropped in Mehtani keys in normal mode. So that's an indication of where to look for them.

Only problem is, It was req 8 in strenght. I don't think a warrior needs a low req shield. He's bound to have either high strength or tactics, doesn't he. (I don't play warriors...)

req7, ar15 shields can drop anywhere in normal mode. I have gotten a couple that my monk has from nightfall/eotn dungeons from just normal mobs.

Mort Mythoryk · Jul 24, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

notice a lot of huff and puff about this topic.

my perspective.... my, inherent two cents if you will.... is this:

regardless if the para defensive/offensive hybrid is more effective as a build...
or a monk should hybrid heal/prot...

or you should use They're on Fire with Save Yourselves...

I say this... you have an 8 man party... decide on what to bring according to your party presence..

It's possible, and actually highly plausible... (done it many times) to replace a healer (monk, rit, N/Rt resto, whatever) with a defensive para.. Set-Up properly.. a para's healing capabilities are pretty advanced.
In this situation.. I personally drop spear down to 3. Run furious/zealous as to which I need at the moment, and buff Leadership and Moto as high as possible. (assuming you're pve). With signet of Synergy, mending refrain, and ballad of resto... you can heal effectively having save yourselves up constantly.

Flurry is a possible solution... AR isn't the only option.. and with a zealous spear... you have no energy problems at all (with flurry)... noting SY to be adrenal.. and leadership at 15-16.
As for paragon rarely getting attacked..... >.> umm... what?

going back to the offensive nature of the build... a paragon... honestly.. is one of my latter choices for damage output... although... fun to play none-the-less. Good condition coverage etc.. But looking on the aspect of imbagon... using save yourselves for defense... try and point out a time when you pugged and someone was attack/support.
You'd kick em.. no thought. Like a Ritualist Using DwG, Channeled Strike and Mend Body and Soul with Spirit Light.... (wtf... ) kind of the same concept in my opinion.

Just my perspective..

Mort Mythoryk · Jul 24, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

You're also using your ele as more of a defensive tool; using the elite slot (and another slot on their bar) on another character to fuel redundant defense.

>.> MoR + SF is redundant agreed... but when did SF become a defensive Elite?

Tyla · Jul 24, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mort Mythoryk

In this situation.. I personally drop spear down to 3. Run furious/zealous as to which I need at the moment, and buff Leadership and Moto as high as possible. (assuming you're pve). With signet of Synergy, mending refrain, and ballad of resto... you can heal effectively having save yourselves up constantly.

Spears are the second most imbalanced weapons in the game. You'd be a fool to not take advantage of it.

Quote:

Flurry is a possible solution... AR isn't the only option.. and with a zealous spear... you have no energy problems at all (with flurry)... noting SY to be adrenal.. and leadership at 15-16.

No need for the usage of a superior rune, and AR > Flurry because it doesn't make you deal less damage and you don't need to reapply.

Quote:

As for paragon rarely getting attacked..... >.> umm... what?

Unless you're running an Imbagon without any melee-based attackers, you shouldn't be attacked.

Quote:

going back to the offensive nature of the build... a paragon... honestly.. is one of my latter choices for damage output... although... fun to play none-the-less. Good condition coverage etc.. But looking on the aspect of imbagon... using save yourselves for defense... try and point out a time when you pugged and someone was attack/support.

PuGs are bad.

Quote:

You'd kick em.. no thought. Like a Ritualist Using DwG, Channeled Strike and Mend Body and Soul with Spirit Light.... (wtf... ) kind of the same concept in my opinion.

Not sure what DwG is, but MBaS and Spirit Light are quite effective.

Racthoh · Jul 24, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mort Mythoryk

>.> MoR + SF is redundant agreed... but when did SF become a defensive Elite?

When people realized elementalists don't do big damage like physicals do. Basically you can divide the professions into two different cateogries; deals damage and doesn't deal damage. If you want to kill stuff, role a physical. If you don't want to kill stuff, role something that will keep whoever is dealing damage alive/hex free/condition free/make them do more damage.

If someone wants to deal damage with an ele then throw some Great Dwarf Weapons onto your physicals with all that energy. Power that with your elite instead (Mind Blast, Ether Renewal) while casting the occasional Rodgort's Invocation for damage support.

Searing Flames at best is a gimmick skill to fuel "They're On Fire!". It hardly matches the offensive capabilities of a physical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Not sure what DwG is, but MBaS and Spirit Light are quite effective.

Destructive Was Glaive.

Washi · Jul 25, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mort Mythoryk

blah blah
Just my perspective..

Typical PUG perspective
/failed