Curse

just rude · Apr 13, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Is this some kind of joke? Every monk build on PvX wiki has Pat Spir and almost non have RoF.

Has the state of the game got so bad that people actually think like this? If so, I can't believe how far the PvP community has fallen, so sad.

Don't get me wrong pap smear is a great skill to drop on top of a large prot if you know a shatter is coming, that's what it was made for, but if your so confident someone is going to need a 120hp heal 3 secs from now, you can mitigate that dmg with other skills.

If your not covering something it seems useless, unless you need to red bar real bad.

Lord Xivor · Apr 13, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

[Healer's Boon] + [Patient Spirit] + [Dwayna's Kiss] = pwnage healing

RyXXed · Apr 13, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

I like pairing up Patient and Dismiss or Patient and WoH in Arenas. I don't like RoF simply because it heals on impact, while Patient can heal me while I'm on the ground or getting spiked by an elementalist (of course if I precasted).

the kurzick eater · Apr 13, 2008, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by just rude

Don't get me wrong pap smear

pro spelling. its patient spirit not pap smear

honestly though, i use it in arenas to cast through dazed, along with sig of rejuvination, you can last with dazed fairly easy.

Div · Apr 13, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

PvX wiki is not always a good indicator for what's good and what's not. Most good players don't go there to look for builds. They either get it by testing their own builds or by modding a friend's.

Patient spirit and RoF do completely different things. You can't really compare them.

Also, btw, patient spirit is 2 seconds now.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 13, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

RoF is primarily there as on "oh shit, I forgot the preprot" button to buy you some time. If you're in a pinch, you can use it to push red bars up when you're dazed/migrained/knocklocked, but it's not very good at it.

Patient spirit is useless as a fast response because of the 2 seconds, but is far better at providing uninterruptable healing.

I strongly prefer patient spirit in TA, since monk shutdown is everywhere. I can't speak as much for higher-end PvP, but I'd assume RoF is more valuable as spikes are more common.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 13, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

i lol'ed @ this. Patient spirit can be 10x more effective than RoF due to what it can be used for. it can cast through daze easily, stack VERY nicely with dismiss, stack very nicely with dwayna's, and so much more. patient spirit is a very good skill. and like they said above my post, it is 2 seconds, not 3.

~LeNa~

Dr Strangelove · Apr 13, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I have no idea why the synergy with dwayna's kiss would be an issue. A single WoH will do the same job better, if you're running healer's boon, you may as well run heal other or healing ribbon if you want a 10 energy big heal.

masta_yoda · Apr 13, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

patients good for pressure [conditions/hexes]
rof is good for spikes to save u some time even though spirit bond is better

Pesi · Apr 13, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

RoF is overrated, RoF is something u use when ur under badass preassure and think u havent got time for anything else.

crap for anything else than that.

Sentinel of Dark · Apr 13, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by just rude

Is this some kind of joke? I just compared two completely different skills

I completely agree with you

Sage Sanctus · Apr 13, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

They are completely different skills if you were to ask me

RoF negates some of the damage, maximum probably around 68 if you are running minor runes, and then grants you the health, where as with Patient, between when you apply it and when it finishes, the ally could have taken over the amount of damage it heals for. I find that both of these skills work well with [Protective Spirit] This because anything, say the person had 500 health, over 50 would be negated from any single spell or attack and then this gives Patient Spirit a chance to heal.

I run both skills in my hybrid build, using them correctly isnt neccessarily hard, its knowing which one to use. RoF is a skill which is useful when the target is being attacked by perhaps a melee class, as a caster would normally overpower it. Patient spirit is perhaps someone thats about to endure a spike, or just escaped one, in which case I would throw protective spirit on them.

RoF isn't a bad skill and is perhaps a staple in many builds, what makes it bad is when people spam it

Edit: Spelling

Melody Cross · Apr 13, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...patient+spirit

See the complete flamewar in the link above (thought mods have doen a solid job of keeping it clean). Ultimatly, its a question of the arena you are playing in, the composition of your build, your teams build, etc. I can save you some reading, however: Patient Spirit is no longer a niche skill designed to let dervishes exploit it; its actually effective in a monk's hands. Its not RoF, and isn't used liek RoF. It virtually works in reverse. RoF is "OMG, i mised a prot, need to negate some damage!" reflex cast 9 out of the 10 times a monk trows it. Patient is a cleanup (red bar go up) for when you get your prots right.

GGs

Grammar · Apr 13, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Patient Spirit is overrated.

What other spot heal are you dropping from a typical hybrid bar in order to run Patient? RoF is not a spot heal, so it doesn't count. Besides, dropping RoF for Patient gives you 3 redundant spot heals where only 2 are needed.

So I ask again, what skill will you be dropping for Patient Spirit?
-In a WoH bar, it would be Kiss. So the question you need to ask yourself is: "Is Patient Spirit better than Kiss?" My answer would be no.
-In a HB bar, it would be Ethereal/Orison. So the question you need to ask yourself is: "Is a booned Patient Spirit better than a booned Ethereal/Orison?" My answer would again be no.

Patient Spirit is a nice skill to have while dazed, but RoF already serves that function in the WoH bar, and that function isn't really needed in the HB bar.

Meh, just bring this and call it a day: [[email protected] 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999] teh hax

Grammar · Apr 13, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...patient+spirit

See the complete flamewar in the link above. Ultimatly, its a question of the arena you are playing in, the composition of your build, your teams build, etc. I can save you some reading, however: Patient Spirit is no longer a niche skill designed to let dervishes exploit it; its actually effective in a monk's hands. Its not RoF, and isn't used liek RoF. It virtually works in reverse. RoF is "OMG, i mised a prot, need to negate some damage!" reflex cast 9 out of the 10 times a monk trows it. Patient is a cleanup (red bar go up) for when you get your prots right. While it does funtion well with Dismiss and Kiss (and HBoon now) and can serve to save more important enchantments from being stripped, its real advantage is as a cheap, difficult to interupt straight heal.

GGs

Merely being a good skill doesn't put it on a monk's bar. It also needs to be better than the alternatives in order to push out one of those alternatives and take its slot.

I won't argue that Patient Spirit is a good skill now. But I personally don't think it's better than the alternatives, specifically Kiss.

Tyla · Apr 13, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

I thought Patient Spirit was changed for Dwaynas Kiss on common hybrid bars?

The reason it's better, is because of recharge (If you're using Signet of Rejuvenation) and casting time (Harder to interrupt = good.).
It's also superior because it can target any ally. Which is the downfall on Dwaynas Kiss because DKiss can't target the person using DKiss.
And it heals, it doesn't mitigate like RoF's main cause is.

Comparing 2 skills with 2 different purposes (as said) is stupid. You might aswell compare Oranges and Apples...

ender6 · Apr 13, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

In PvP (RA/TA) patient spirit became popular for the simple fact that it offered the standard hybrid monk bar (see WoH, or ZB) a second reliable heal. This was indeed advantageous considering the chain Sig of Humility mezes (Me/N) running around or if either ZB/or WoH got distracted by a good Megabaner.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 13, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

In PvP (RA/TA) patient spirit became popular for the simple fact that it offered the standard hybrid monk bar (see WoH, or ZB) a second reliable heal. This was indeed advantageous considering the chain Sig of Humility mezes (Me/N) running around or if either ZB/or WoH got distracted by a good Megabaner.

Sums it up pretty well. Hybrids in 4v4 don't have the bar space for dkiss, or a second heal skill at all. RoF ends up being a crappy red bars spell in more matches than I care to count, thanks to magebane, diversion, dshot, migraine, daze, signet of humility, knockdowns..... Unless you have moko's uninterruptable ZB, patient is a lifesaver.

Melody Cross · Apr 13, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Patient Spirit is overrated.

What other spot heal are you dropping from a typical hybrid bar in order to run Patient? RoF is not a spot heal, so it doesn't count. Besides, dropping RoF for Patient gives you 3 redundant spot heals where only 2 are needed.

It may not count for you, but thats what Patient is (quite often but not always) replacing. I assumed this is obvious seeing people continue to discuss Patient Spirit in a PS vs RoF context.

The argument is that while it replaces RoF on the bar, it does not replace the effect. As has been stated, they work differently and (as such) are used differently.

Quote:

So I ask again, what skill will you be dropping for Patient Spirit?
-In a WoH bar, it would be Kiss. So the question you need to ask yourself is: "Is Patient Spirit better than Kiss?" My answer would be no.

situationally, yes. You answer your own question in the previous post. In heavy shutdown areas and 4v4, Patient gets through where DKiss can't. Having a spell that you can cast and hit the target with is better in such situations than having a very powerful straight heal that is essentially interrupt fodder.

This is a moot point however. Dkiss on a WoH bar is purely PvE (maybe HA). If you've been reading then you know that the OPs rant and the replies have been PvP oriented.

But I will favor you with a situation where PSirit does not replace RoF as well

Quote:

-In a HB bar, it would be Ethereal/Orison. So the question you need to ask yourself is: "Is a booned Patient Spirit better than a booned Ethereal/Orison?" My answer would again be no.

absolutely patient has potential to be better. The heal from a DKiss/PSpirit combo is mathematically superior to heal other, recycle is higher than Elight and orison is garbage no matter what you use it with. Especially now that PSpirit works with HBoon. This also allows HBoons a flexibility they previously did not have: bar compression.

Quote:

Patient Spirit is a nice skill to have while dazed, but RoF already serves that function in the WoH bar, and that function isn't really needed in the HB bar.

see previous post for link. One major argument for Patient Spirit is that it removes wanding issues. RoF potentially negates 108 damage at 9 (typical number for prot in a hybrid WoH bar). It can also negate 2 if a monk tosses a spear at your target. In degen situations, lockdown situations, it is not immune to lifestealing, etc.

In such situations, Patient can do more than keep up with with RoF in the red bar department. It can actually surpass it. 108...every time.

GGs

edit: props @ ender6. Very good post.

yesitsrob · Apr 14, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

2 completely different skills, if you substitute out rof for patient spirit, you're probably stupid. If any had to be labelled as the better skill, then it's rof. imo