Curse

t00115577 · Jul 20, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Slightly biased opinion but id say ranger aswell. The ranger rep skills are crap rly. [Triple Shot] is alright with [Nightmare Weapon] or other skills like that but not great all the same.

All a high end pve ranger needs is [Broad Head Arrow] [Epidemic] [Volley] and of course [Distracting Shot]

Horseman Of War · Jul 20, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Warrior builds with SY are on a whole other level than those without. So warrior is out of the running. As is paragon.

SY is a luxon skill.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 20, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

SY is a luxon skill.

["save yourselves"] is a warrior skill tied to the kurzick/luxon title. you must be either war primary or secondary to use it.

JDRyder · Jul 20, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

before nightfall even came out I am sure there were plenty of good builds (that would be before pve skills existed* and sunspear points)......we played the game for what 2 years before it????? I am sure that some people made some good builds before factions as well.....

(*yes the pve skills in factions came out before nightfall....but there were builds for sins and rits before people got them as well).

agreed, I still use a lot of the older builds "like boon prot" from time to time. Sometimes they even work better than the dare i say pve Meta atm.

I tend to stay away from Pve skills myself Im not a big fan if the idea, and their not all that great "other than SY but still not a fan of it on a war" imo. I feel they were trying to turn the game in to WoW a bit by adding them, and the skills are very over rated.

Chthon · Jul 20, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

I'd say something about Mesmer, tought I think the OP already made his choice. It is true mesmer have no "Top Tier build

I consider AP-AE-CoP a top tier build. Outside of situations where monsters ball up for the spectacularly horrible death that is the AP-MoP necro, the AP-AE-CoP mesmer is far and away the best damage dealer in GW PvE. Yes, a mesmer. Hard to believe, but true.

Quote:

Also, about assassins, do they really need more than SS rank 3 to make Crit Agility useful? Otherwise only Brawling Headbutt is used as KD.

1. You don't need a high rank to function. But you don't even need the skill at all if merely functioning is your goal. If you want to really maximize your assassin's potential, that armor matters.

2. Club of a Thousand Bears is more useful than BH for an assassin. MS recharges it, so you can crank out more KD's than with BH.

3. I'd also highly recommend a /W secondary for SY, which is yet another reason to avoid assassins if you want to max out your character's potential without grinding.

Steps_Descending · Jul 20, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

[skill]Pain inverter[/skill] is not a mesmer skill. backfire, empathy, and echo are hardly the best mesmer skills and good mesmers don't consider them "the core"

Ok ok maybe I should have mentioned that Pain Inverter isn't a mesmer skill but a mesmer-style skill? And ok ok I guess if I just admit I am not a good mesmer we can settle this before I need to defend from the accusation of being a bad player. By the way can you tell me what do you consider the core of a mesmer build? AP? CoP? SoI? I'm seriously curious to knwo that (no sarcasm).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I consider AP-AE-CoP a top tier build. Outside of situations where monsters ball up for the spectacularly horrible death that is the AP-MoP necro, the AP-AE-CoP mesmer is far and away the best damage dealer in GW PvE. Yes, a mesmer. Hard to believe, but true.

Ok I guess I should have been more precise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps(correction)

It is true mesmer have no "title-unreliant or light-title-reliant Top Tier build"(does the word reliant even exist? not sure)

Quote:

1. You don't need a high rank to function. But you don't even need the skill at all if merely functioning is your goal. If you want to really maximize your assassin's potential, that armor matters.

2. Club of a Thousand Bears is more useful than BH for an assassin. MS recharges it, so you can crank out more KD's than with BH.

3. I'd also highly recommend a /W secondary for SY, which is yet another reason to avoid assassins if you want to max out your character's potential without grinding.

Ok I guess the build I have is a bad one, btw wasn't CritAgi used mainly for the attack bonus? Or maybe that explains the Imbagon's presence in the team.

EDIT : just noticed the way I worded the BH comment made it sound like it was the only option. My bad.

Tyla · Jul 21, 2008, 03:09 AM // 03:09

It isn't a neccessity, but it is helpful if you're planning on using the skills.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 21, 2008, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

By the way can you tell me what do you consider the core of a mesmer build? AP? CoP? SoI? I'm seriously curious to knwo that (no sarcasm).

[diversion] [signet of humility] [cry of frustration] things like that

JDRyder · Jul 21, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

By the way can you tell me what do you consider the core of a mesmer build? AP? CoP? SoI? I'm seriously curious to knwo that (no sarcasm).

[build=OQNDAowjOFgcQPgIgGdBaAAA] last skill can be many things [diversion] is what i use most the time but skils like [shatter hex][signet of humility] etc are also welcome, in some areas [hex eater vortex]

sometimes [shatter enchant] over [drain enchant] but i like drain better cause it got a 5 sec faster recharge, some times [mirror of disenchantment]

if your not going to need a lot of hard interrupts like [leech signet] id take it out for [power drain] or [power spike] or [power lock]

[blackout] can be ok in some areas where you know theres a bad ass boss

Ive been thinking about working in [extend conditions]+[fevered dreams]+[BHA] in a team build for every caster areas, just for lawls if nothing else

Steps_Descending · Jul 21, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

At the 2 above posters : Interesting, didn't know people started using Mesmer in PvE as actual disruption. At least 1 thing we can thk GWEN for I guess

About the CritAgi question, basically we all agree on the facts but are talking about 2 different things.(CritAgi is ok with low SS rank but having high rank helps. I was talking about wether it works or not for a high-end-area decent build, got responded that it got better with high rank.)
So why are we arguing about that already?

upier · Jul 21, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

At the 2 above posters : Interesting, didn't know people started using Mesmer in PvE as actual disruption.

Yeah, we are not.
Since the best disruption still is cutting the life line.

JDRyder · Jul 21, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

At the 2 above posters : Interesting, didn't know people started using Mesmer in PvE as actual disruption. At least 1 thing we can thk GWEN for I guess

im able to, if i cant [guilt] "like bosses in HM or a 1 sec cast"

Jetdoc · Jul 21, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Back to the OP, both Rangers and Elementalists can function very well without the Sunspear PvE skills. Intensity is nice, but I find that the 10 second duration is a bit prohibitive unless you're running a Me/E fast caster that can unload a massive number of skills in a very short period of time.

Steps_Descending · Jul 21, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, we are not.
Since the best disruption still is cutting the life line.

Hmmm interesting contradiction...

So Upier (because I need a random person), don't you find in marvelous how a thread can be hijacked by an innocent conversation.

And Back on topic : SO OP did you changed your mind or are you still set on ranger?

odly · Jul 22, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

First of all sunspear points are easilly gathered and most skills work well at non-max rank. max-rank 50k needs some hours to farm, but at 7.5k you allready have high enough rank to make the good skills worth bringing.

All classes can make good builds without sunspear rep skills.
Some sunspear rep skills are very good though, some not so much. So the question as I read it is which class gimpes himself by not having sunspear rep skills and which doesn't.

Here's my analysis :

Assassin : [Critical agility] is godly for a dagger sin. Not having it is a real downer. Needs decent rank.
Necromancer : [Necrosis] spammable 90 armor ignoring damage. Hardly ever leaves my skillbar, but a necro can still be good without it. Needs average rank.
Dervish : [Eternal Aura] avatar's are what make Dervisches special. Keeping them up is very nice utility. You can play without avatar's, but you're bound to use them often too. The downtime is not a killer. (the skill didn't exist at the start of nightfall afterall) but when using an Avatar I almost allways have eternal aura too. But eternal aura does work at very low rep point rank. It won't give you as much damage, but the utility stays the same. Needs low rank.
Monk : [seed of life] good/decent skill, but with low rep won't be all that decent. Personally I hardly ever use it though. You won't be missing anything by not having it. Needs high rank to be worth bringing in my opinion.
Paragon : ["There's nothing to fear"] never leaves my paragon's skillbar. If you have it you'll bring it. Needs decent rank.
Warrior : [Whirlwind attack] good enough skill, but not needed. Needs decent rank
Ranger : [never rampage alone] good enough skill (non-stance ias), but not needed. Needs decent rank
Ritualist : ["Vampirism"] good for the offensive spirit spamemrs, but also one of the faster casting & recharging spirits which make it interesting for builds that depend on having a spirit close by. You might regret not having it for some builds. Needs decent rank.
Mesmer : ["cry of Pain"] ouch. Very powerfull skill, although not used that much except for builds that build on its power for spiking. Not needed for most builds, but you might regret not having it for the builds that build on it. Needs high rank since you when you use it, it's for the damage.
Elementalist : ["intensity"] long recharge, really not that good a skill. Although I can imagine using it in a burst damage build. (tank and spank or farming). I'd rather have an extra damage skill on my bar though. Needs rather high rep to be usefull.

upier · Jul 22, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

So Upier (because I need a random person), don't you find in marvelous how a thread can be hijacked by an innocent conversation.

I absolutely LOVE how you threw in the term "marvelous" there!
You know what it reminds me off?
The Smurfs!
Yep, the Smurfs!

Spiritz · Jul 22, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Sunspear rank can easily be got in several ways ...
1. complete nightfall and make sure you take bounties on the way
2. As you now have hardmode Wurm Farm in hardmode and that if done right can net you about 600 points per run - see wiki for details.

If you already have a chr thats done nightfall then all chrs have hardmode there and you can take advantage of the bonus at start.
If the chrs non elonian then you have it good in 1 sense - nf chrs have to work thru istan to get onto mainland and its roughly 50hrs work doing primaries just to get to time is nigh quest - prophs an factions chrs can get to nf in a matter of hrs and they only have a few easy quests to get to mainland.

And i do agree at times you see a great build and the skills are title skills that need high rank - that can be offputting ... look at Eotn skills etc

Tyla · Jul 22, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Sunspear rank can easily be got in several ways ...

Grinding is and never was easy, but time consuming.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 22, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

Assassin : [Critical agility] is godly for a dagger sin. Not having it is a real downer. Needs decent rank.

Mesmer : ["cry of Pain"] ouch. Very powerfull skill, although not used that much except for builds that build on its power for spiking. Not needed for most builds, but you might regret not having it for the builds that build on it. Needs high rank since you when you use it, it's for the damage.

Critical Agility can be used at low level sunspear. Simply because it takes critical strikes into account.

Cry of Pain can be as low as level 1 sunspear because [signet of illusions] is hands down the best mesmer elite for PvE.

Only 2 thing I disagree with you with. Dont get me wrong or anything but [ether nightmare] coupled with [cry of pain] is just great for PvE. These 2 hardly leave my bar when I play mes in PvE seeing how I take SoI I don't even bother grinding for the rep.

Abedeus · Jul 22, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

The only classes that need sunspear skill to be uber are: Mesmer, Dervish, Paragon and Warrior.

Mesmer: Cry of Pain is ubershitblowingup.
Dervish: Perma elite is ftw.
Paragon: Lol.
Warrior: Okay, not NEEDED, but it turns Splinter Weapon into an elite skill.