Curse

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

*Equips the "Vanguard Flame Shield of +5ness*
I'm sure this topic has been beaten like a zombie horse but I just want my opinion to be "out thar".

A lot of people hate UB for it's seemingly "game breaking" and "overpowered"ness.
See these links for what I'm talking about.
Isiah Cartwright's talk page for PvE balancing.
Ursan Blessing's wiki talk page.

This is not a planned or thought-out report. I write as stuff comes to mind.
I LOVE Ursan Blessing. Not because I "cant find a good build" (an arguement within my own goddamn alliance), my Axe Ranger does quite fine in all things PvE. But when I want speed and a failsafe group, I look to find UB groups. It's not breaking the game, it's just speed-farming.

I use the term failsafe loosely, even ursanways come across groups that sap energy and then turn everyone into pincushions.

I broke the skill down in my head yesterday, and even though my opinion of UB has not lowered at all, I begin to understand why people think it's so bad.

So here's the breakdown. You get 6 people who are now sporting 800 health or more. Put on their norn rank, they get nearly another 100. That's 900 health. Give this group two monks with an elite that makes healing spells 50% more potent. Give them a spell that heals them every time they are hit. Combined with the +20 or so armor UB also gives... Level 28's and such are hitting 6's and the players are getting healed for 30. Every time they are hit. I think I need to repeat that. Every. Time. They. Are. Hit.

So we got bitches who are one health buff away from breaking over a thousand hitpoints, armored out the ass, and untouchable, for the most part. Now let's look at the crap they're sporting.

A skill that does damage while ignoring every form of armor or damage avoidance. Not only does Ursan Strike hit twice, but it does touch damage, ignoring everything. You can do up to 140 damage every few seconds.
Not much of a weakness you say? They might get pounded you say?
That's fine, they have Ursan Rage! Physical damage (which armor DOES reduce) to every goddamn thing around you.
They also have a shout that weakens enemies and adds damage to you. IN ONE SKILL.
They also have a good speed buff.

These are just a few reasons why people hate UB. If we wanted to get into a more intricate discussion, we could talk about the economy and how it breaks the game.

And I will.

As I stated Here, "...the economy is completely normal. When there's more of something in ciruclation, it's cheaper. When there's less of something, it's expensive. Ursan Blessing is no different than godly 55/600 farmers, only UB is more team-based farming. Which is how GW should be."

I might be an asshole for saying this but how the hell can that be argued against? Gold is ALREADY unlimited by killing monsters. If we're talking real-world economy, then the argument is already moot because of the simple concept of killing stuff.

The arguement people brought forth to the game-breaking thing is that they don't want new to moderate players being "good" in high level areas getting high level areas.

Let me repeat that so it sounds a little more clear.

People don't want new to moderate players to be "good". That's all it boils down to.
Everyone wants to strut their high level crap, some set of armor that cost them 150+k to build, even though it functions the exact same way to MY set of armor that looks just as neat, but only cost me 20k for the stuff. I don't get it.
Even *IF* UB killed that, there are plenty of things you can gain satisfaction over. For one, rank title farming is only 4 or so titles. UB can't farm treasure hunter for you. UB isn't going to get you LdoA.

There are plenty of things to stroke your E-Peen over. Leave Ursan Blessing alone, for those that don't meet up to elitists goddamn standards.

Arsalan · Apr 15, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Bravo! I love UB. Why? Cos I dont want to play an Obby Derv all the time for high lvl areas. UB means everyone can do the high lvl areas, together. If that isnt a good thing then I dont know what is. We all know that the majority of ppl that oppose UB are elitists. And to them: dont like it? Dont use it! Dont even acquire it! Want to call me a noob? Go ahead. I dont care. I know ill be having fun with 12 guildies in the Deep while ull be posting about how crap UB is...

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan

UB means everyone can do the high lvl areas, together. If that isnt a good thing then I dont know what is.

Normally I'd agree but I can see the logic of Anti-UB people. They want their titles and equipment to mean something, not just any ol' normal joe' running around with elite stuff.

I farm with UB, but I STILL don't want all that crap.

isamu kurosawa · Apr 15, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan

Bravo! I love UB. Why? Cos I dont want to play an Obby Derv all the time for high lvl areas. UB means everyone can do the high lvl areas, together. If that isnt a good thing then I dont know what is. We all know that the majority of ppl that oppose UB are elitists. And to them: dont like it? Dont use it! Dont even acquire it! Want to call me a noob? Go ahead. I dont care. I know ill be having fun with 12 guildies in the Deep while ull be posting about how crap UB is...

You could have always played a decent build over crap like an obs tank. but as you state you went for ursan alone.

Arsalan · Apr 15, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

You could have always played a decent build over crap like an obs tank. but as you state you went for ursan alone.

Before eotn came out, the only time i cud join a DoA group was if I was an obby tank. That was annoying. And when you finally did join a group, if you so much as dared to question something you'd be out. Ive tried and mastered many different builds. From the necro and monk farming builds to runners all over place. All im saying is UB allows ppl to come together and have fun. I dont think most do it for titles. They just want to have fun

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan

I dont think most do it for titles.

A lot of them do. Even I, who uses UB for fun, still has 2 ranks of norn to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arsalan

They just want to have fun

I've met some people in Ursanways who need to quit GW or quit life, so this is not altogether true.

zwei2stein · Apr 15, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

>> I begin to understand why people think it's so bad.

You began to understand and then you stopped and went to "D" variant of pro ursan stance: They don't want us to succeed too! QQ.

Which is bullshit. Everyone likes to see more people that are able to play high content so that they can party with them.

And you seem to have no idea when you suggest people to use lamest of lame titles to boost their ego. Or do you want to start flames with that? I guess so.

Abedeus · Apr 15, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I wonder why in other online RPG's/HnS's/MMORPGs balancing team is able to nicely balance skill as soon as they see it's overpowered. Examples?

Bugged Guided Arrow in Diablo 2. Fixed in 1.10, thank God, amazons aren't so overpowered in PvP (at least 75% players had one with a bow and that imbalanced skill). How it was bugged? If monster was thrusted with an arrow and it went through him, arrow would just WTFPWN him until it didn't thrust another time. But since people noticed that bug, they almost all the time got megawtfdmg. And it was hard to kill an amazon in pvp, especially if they had knockback gloves (imagine - you can't move, you get knocked back all the time and you get tons of dmg in 5 seconds).

Bugged Heat in Ragnarok Online. Player, thanks to the bugged skill, could deal over 1kk dmg to a boss in less than 20 seconds. Why? Skill deals dmg and causes knockback. Bosses can't be knocked back, so they receive(d) 10-40 times more dmg than normal monsters (depending on defense). Got fixed very fast, skill is still usable, but it doesn't let one player rape a helpless boss in few seconds.

Bugged Implosion in Neverwinter Nights - Spell had a chance to insta-kill if target failed a very high dice roll. And even items with immunity to death magic couldn't stop it. Why? Because it wasn't Death Magic, only Evocation.

Or another example from Ragnarok Online. There is a skill (was very popular, now it is only in PvP - not wise to use in pve due to costs) Acid Bomb, that deals damage depending on Vitality of target and Intelligence of caster. And again, players could level up so damn fast thanks to that... Why? Bosses used to have 130++ vitality, so it means that one player could spam 200k dmg very, very fast and only energy + amount of bottle grenades could stop him. Now they nerfed it - bosses have at most 40-50 vitality, so damage is like... 1/6 of what it used to be.

What's funny, only RO has a monthly fee. Bioware and Blizzard could just say ,,hey, you payed for the game, now go to hell''. But they fixed those bugs.

And we still have overpowered skill in GW. What gives? Are we inferior to other players?

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

*Deflects flame with shield of +5ness*

Anyone else who can refute stuff without resorting to flame-baiting, hmm, yes?

Artisan Archer · Apr 15, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I was going to say something sensible, but then I saw your avatar and stuff... Figured there's no point (@ zwei)

Something Wickked · Apr 15, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I see the reason that Anet made UB so good though. They want people to actually make their own gold, and therefore be wealthy enough (by game standards) to not have to buy game gold from 3rd party sites. Or at least this could be a reason to.

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

-snip-

Not sure what point you're trying to make, friendo.

Turtle222 · Apr 15, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

i use UB in DoA because it is efficient, and it will take you two days to find a non ursan group.

i don't scold anyone for using UB, but you are better off using that than avatar of balthazaar and have me sneer at you for bringing it.

UB is a safe option for those that don't want to be kicked from a group. there is really no tactic. c 1 2 1 3 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 12 1 etc etc

i think the main problem for long time players is, they spent so much time doing things and it meant something to them to accomplish them. ie. doa would take ages, and it was quite a feat to do mallyx etc.However, now UB comes along and does things in half the time, with minimum casualties. do you see what i am saying?

However, my arguement against this is, if you have been playing for nearly three years you would want to get things done fast right? UB, problem solved.

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I've played for almost 2 years, doesn't make me anti-UB for speed.

Crescent Sky · Apr 15, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

to the OP:

You're right in what you say, and we're happy that people can now run in DoA with their mesmers and have an alternative so they dont have to be an obby derv all the time for example (just as an example), but what about those that are left with even less variety then before? I enjoyed it when i could at least choose between obby derv, sf ele or bip necro, and had to know how to play each bar differently and actualy trying to some point and not just spamming (at the very least keeping skill chains in mind, watching your energy, etc.) Now i can't run any of those. All i can do to run DoA now is load up Ursan and drum my fingers across 1, 2, 3 on my keyboard all day. Ever thought of that?

zwei2stein · Apr 15, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

I was going to say something sensible, but then I saw your avatar and stuff... Figured there's no point (@ zwei)

Try me. Argument you never make is argument i never see, have to think about and consider and eventually refute or agree on.

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crescent Sky

to the OP:

You're right in what you say, and we're happy that people can now run in DoA with their mesmers and have an alternative so they dont have to be an obby derv all the time for example (just as an example), but what about those that are left with even less variety then before? I enjoyed it when i could at least choose between obby derv, sf ele or bip necro, and had to know how to play each bar differently and actualy trying to some point and not just spamming (at the very least keeping skill chains in mind, watching your energy, etc.) Now i can't run any of those. All i can do to run DoA now is load up Ursan and drum my fingers across 1, 2, 3 on my keyboard all day. Ever thought of that?

Thanks for sharing that, as I can't really refute that. I'm sure normal groups haven't been whiped from the face of GW (Groups of ursan-haters, for example), but I can understand about the less variety.

I focus less on the 1 2 3 button mashing, but more on the goal and what I'm actually doing the ursanway for.
Right now I'm UB-Farming Norn Rank hard mode. I play it for the rank, the loot, and the lack of difficulty in doing so.

Focus on something else while using Ursan and it doesn't seem so simple-sighted as button mashing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You began to understand and then you stopped and went to "D" variant of pro ursan stance: They don't want us to succeed too!.

Ah! Something to reply to this:

I DID say it wasn't a thought out report. It's more of a blog post than anything but I wanted to see more people reply than the other forums I go to which has very little activity.

Pyro maniac · Apr 15, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

I don't get it

Abedeus · Apr 15, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

Not sure what point you're trying to make, friendo.

Lol. My point is why the hell A.Net allows overpowered skills to exist? Other games, regardless if with monthly fee or not, have good balances so one skill isn't better than 20 other skills. Only we have to suffer thanks to UB.

CagedinSanity · Apr 15, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

After my post and a bunch of others, that question STILL isn't answered to you?

Because it's fun.
Because they want it to be there.

Lurk some, there are numerous answers to that around.