Curse

darkdreamr · May 27, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I ran triple necro through most of Tyria, but I slowly decided to change it for certain difficult areas, because I didn't think the curses necro was pulling his weight, minions once killed render the MM useless for a while, and I cared more about removing hexes than conditions.

Still I was able to manage until I got to Grothmar Wardowns. You all know the EotN Charr teambuild, don't you? It's amazing. The biggest problem, I think, is the very effective monks combined with a very effective midline and well, a very effective frontline. Well, I'm half kidding. It's the ability of the rits and mesmers to hard res their buddies up in seconds ([Resurrection Chant] at like 20 fast casting). So my options were to try some frozen soil thing or just nuke everything down at the same time. Guess which one I chose?

The method is simple. The build relies on multiple layers of defense, with fire pressure and anti-caster spikes to quickly take out the key opponents. It's pretty much an all-caster team, which lends itself to wards and chants because people aren't running around much.

My primary is a mesmer, so I ran a general PvE damage build with the ability to quickly spike a mob down once they reach 50% health:
[build prof=Me/N name="Mesmer Player" dom=11+1+2 insp=10+1 fast=10+1 desc="Insightful Staff of Fortitude with +5^50 inscription"][Power Drain][Empathy][Backfire][Necrosis][Cry of Pain][Mantra of Recovery][Ether Signet][Finish Him!][/build]

I know I need knockdowns, so I bring an SF ele. In HM, any AoE causes the mobs to scatter, so I use SF as a nice AoE pressure that keeps the mobs grouped up and powers Necrosis. MS and Extinguish are deactivated and used manually. The benefit of Aegis and Reverse Hex on this bar is that the energy to use them is available, and they have long cooldowns so they don't interfere with the flamethrowing.
[build prof=E/Mo name="SF Ele Hero" fire=12+1+3 ene=9+1 prot=9 desc="Hale Staff of Fortitude with +5^50 inscription"][Fire Attunement][Aura of Restoration][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Searing Flames][Meteor Shower][Aegis][Reverse Hex][Extinguish][/build]

The SF also synergizes well with "They're on Fire!", which Morgahn is great about keeping up. Morgahn also provides heals, defense, and energy management. Slot 5 is pretty optional.
[build prof=P/Me name="Support Para Hero" mot=11+1+2 lead=11+1 command=8+2 desc="Furious Spear of Fortitude with +5e inscription{br}Motivation Shield of Fortitude with +10 vs fire inscription"][They're on Fire!][Song of Restoration][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Zeal][Mirror of Disenchantment][Signet of Synergy][Glowing Signet][Stand Your Ground!][/build]

Third hero slot is either another SF ele with an identical build for longer Aegis chains and more fire damage, or a MM bomber with Jagged Bones. However, I prefer the SF ele because you get another MS, and guaranteed damage even if you lose your minions.
[build prof=N/Mo name="Jagged Bomber Hero" death=12+1+3 soul=9+1 blood=3+1 prot=9 desc="Hale Staff of Fortitude with +5^50 inscription{br}OR 40/40 death set"][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Aegis][Reverse Hex][Blood Ritual][/build]

Henchmen are Eve (for more e-management) or Devona (for more knockdowns), Herta (for wards and awesomeness), Mhenlo and Lina.

Here are the layers of defense:
- Three copies of Aegis, that are chained pretty well usually. Don't forget to pre-Aegis, especially against the ranger groups, which can spike hard.
- Ward Against Melee and Elements from Herta.
- "Stand Your Ground!" from Morgahn.
- "They're on Fire!" is almost always active and reducing ~30% of all damage from burning sources. This includes damage from hexes and everything.

As you can see it's pretty comprehensive. The only problem is when enemies are spread out, like a huge semicircle of rangers, but even then Aegis comes through for you.

For offense, you want to lock your ele's targets on the Charr hard ressers. first let the mobs settle down and start casting. Don't cast important spells in the first few seconds, because their mesmers and monks have interrupts. You can bait them with Empathy, and they'll use their interrupts up soon. After about 5-6 seconds, all the Charr casters should be burning and this is when you cast the first MS. As soon as you see the animation that the spell's done, cast Backfire on one of the monks, followed by Cry of Pain. Switch to the mesmer and it should be near half health. Necrosis if needed, then "Finish Him!" and Necrosis until he's dead, switch to the rit and repeat, being sure to interrupt [Flesh of my Flesh] with Power Drain or Cry of Pain. You should be able to kill both ressers in the first MS. If not, and you brought another ele, just MS again. From that point it's just a matter of spiking down the monks (pretty easy since Backfire = at least 133 damage, Cry of Pain = 100 at max rank, Necrosis = 90 at max rank, and "Finish Him!" is another 180 and reduced healing from the deep wound, all in about 2 seconds).

Good luck!

Lynyrd Skynyrd · May 27, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

"Finish Him!" is another 180 and reduced healing from the deep wound, all in about 2 seconds.

DW is capped at 100 damage, if I recall correctly.

darkdreamr · May 27, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Yes, and the skill itself does up to 80 armor ignoring damage as well. The cracked armor is just icing, nice if you have minions.

Lynyrd Skynyrd · May 27, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Yes, and the skill itself does up to 80 armor ignoring damage as well. The cracked armor is just icing, nice if you have minions.

Finish Him! does damage?

Haha, guess it would help to play the game.

Nightow · May 27, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

lol, yeah. 80 (armor ignoring) damage at max rank.

DarkSpirit · May 27, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

lol, yeah. 80 (armor ignoring) damage at max rank.

Yeah but it is single-targeting. Works nicely on an Assassin Promise build though.

Dalada Uplands HM is where I do most of my hero build testing because of the varied enemies there so I know that place very well.

Extinguish probably works better there than in most other PvE places because of the vast condition inflictions and burning. Otherwise, it maybe too energy intensive.

Currently, I am also trying out a ToF Motigon build with an Ether Renewal Rogort's Invocation Ele build to replace Sab's build for low corpse areas.

Have not tried out your build, but it looks like your healing maybe alittle low.

Cathode_Reborn · May 28, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

imo, Charr, Dinos, and Jotuns, are the harder HM enemies of eotn.

EotN charr hit really hard. They're abit tougher since they have 2 profs (I wish all enemies had that). I was just vanquishing that area using an Assassin's Promise build on my nec - as long as their Extinguish doesn't get through, Technobabble whoops them pretty bad.

As a mesmer, I'd recommend you also use Assassin's Promise - Cry of Pain spam can do massive damage. Being able to use "Finish Him" on every target is also very nice. Biggest downside I see is not being able to use Necrosis. I think it's good at least - stapled to all my nec bars.

Super Igor · May 28, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I damn hate charr.

DarkSpirit · May 28, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

It is hard to find a universal heroes team build for such areas without using a MM.

I find that this defensive build works ok against them, without a MM, even without SY:

[build prof=D/N blo=5 win=10+1 earthp=10+1 mys=10+1+1][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Pious Restoration][Mystic Regeneration][Imbue Health][Signet of Pious Light][Pious Renewal][Vow of Piety][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo sou=12+1 cur=12+1+1][Signet of Removal][Barbs][Defile Defenses][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Weaken Armor][Vengeance][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo blo=12+1 sou=9+1+1 pro=9][Well of Power][Order of Pain][Spirit Bond][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][Foul Feast][Vengeance][/build]

variants:

[build prof=N/Rt sou=8+1 cur=12+1+1 res=2 cha=10][Spiteful Spirit][Splinter Weapon][Barbs][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Defile Defenses][Weaken Armor][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo blo=12+1 sou=9+1+1 pro=9][Well of Power][Order of Pain][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][Foul Feast][Vengeance][/build]

Bring Mhenlo. If you are a caster, bring more physical henchies. If you are a physical, you can replace the Well of Power N/Mo with a SoP Paragon and bring some protection skills (SY would be nice) on your character, if you can.

A 6-heroes team would probably do better but to fit a good universal build into only 3 heroes, without a MM or SY, for HM is alittle tough.

darkdreamr · May 28, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

A 6-heroes team would probably do better but to fit a good universal build into only 3 heroes, without a MM or SY, for HM is alittle tough.

True...this build is heavy on prot, for example, so it doesn't do as well against the massive degen of nymphs and mandragor, but those mobs are easy anyway. Like I said, I usually run 2 Eles and a Para and it works out well. But I can see that in areas which have heavy caster hate, or where you can't get Herta, or something, this build will not work nearly as well.

Thanks all for the ideas.

DarkSpirit · May 28, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

True...this build is heavy on prot, for example, so it doesn't do as well against the massive degen of nymphs and mandragor, but those mobs are easy anyway.

I disagree. I tested them against the Insects with Conjure Nightmare, Crippling Anguish, Images of Remorse, and bleeding in Dalada Uplands HM, so you have massive degen there also. The insects also resurrect on their own, cast AoE blind, cripple, and bleed, with Smite Hex and Smite Condition on their monks.

The D/N is a good healer and removing the fast casting OOP from her bar allows her to concentrate more on her healing. Dark Fury is a distraction too but not as much as, if both DF and OOP are on her bar. Keeping Blood magic low with only Dark Fury also boosts healing from the other attributes. With Mhenlo and condition+hex removal from Signet of Removal, they work quite well. I dont even need Lina, only Mhenlo.

Well of Power (or blood) also helps alot for healing although they do depend on corpses, but they dont need as many corpses as the MM does.

Quote:

Like I said, I usually run 2 Eles and a Para and it works out well. But I can see that in areas which have heavy caster hate, or where you can't get Herta, or something, this build will not work nearly as well.

Thanks all for the ideas.

There are many places with heavy caster hate in HM Dalada Uplands. The charrs cast backfire, Power block, Power Spike, Shatter Enchant, Res chant, along with Aegis from each Flameshielder (sometimes more than 1 in a group), with Meteor Shower, Fire Storm, and Rodgort's Invocation. Their Charr Seeker ranger use Burning Arrow+Explosive arrow and they spike together very effectively.

If you are using a Para, then you need to get something to prevent blocking on the target unless you intend to micro manage, condition removal and possible hex removal also. You should also think about damage buffs like Splinter Weapon and/or Barbs. Your Paragon doesn't have any adrenaline shouts and is holding all these high energy skills in his bar making him dependent on the BR. Actually it looks like everyone is very dependent on the BR. If I have to use a MM, sabway already works very well in that area. Try replacing your MM and you would see what I mean.

fenix · May 29, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Dual DA > Charr.

Then bring like...an SS nec as the 3rd hero, or a monk. Then some hench, probably Zho, 2 monks and Herta.

darkdreamr · May 29, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I disagree. I tested them against the Insects with Conjure Nightmare, Crippling Anguish, Images of Remorse, and bleeding in Dalada Uplands HM, so you have massive degen there also. The insects also resurrect on their own, cast AoE blind, cripple, and bleed, with Smite Hex and Smite Condition on their monks.

I was talking about my build, not yours..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If you are using a Para, then you need to get something to prevent blocking on the target unless you intend to micro manage, condition removal and possible hex removal also. You should also think about damage buffs like Splinter Weapon and/or Barbs. Your Paragon doesn't have any adrenaline shouts and is holding all these high energy skills in his bar making him dependent on the BR. Actually it looks like everyone is very dependent on the BR. If I have to use a MM, sabway already works very well in that area. Try replacing your MM and you would see what I mean.

Well, I don't usually use an MM. The build is just there as an alternative to a second Ele. And really there's little need to worry about the target blocking, or any physical buffs, since all my damage is magical. As for energy, Morgahn is always fine because of leadership (whole team standing in earshot) and Glowing Signet. The only people who get BR are myself occasionally and the monks sometimes.

DarkSpirit · May 29, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

Well, I don't usually use an MM. The build is just there as an alternative to a second Ele. And really there's little need to worry about the target blocking, or any physical buffs, since all my damage is magical. As for energy, Morgahn is always fine because of leadership (whole team standing in earshot) and Glowing Signet. The only people who get BR are myself occasionally and the monks sometimes.

I see, the fact that your Paragon uses a furious spear was alittle confusing. Why not a staff or wand/offhand then? It is not like he has a single adrenaline skill on his bar.

By the way, a painful promise mesmer build would probably work better for you.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...99&postcount=4

legacyofkain85 · May 30, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

for me ¨finish him¨ its just the kill button when the target gets below 50% hp (90% of the time except very high hp mobs) in pve,i used to use a build with assassin promise and this skill