Curse

DarkSpirit · May 13, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

A problem with replacing Sab's N/Rt healer with the DS minion bomber is that the healing would be slower. I tried 2 minion bombers to jack up the healing and it sort of works although the starting is tougher before you get your minions. Try to fight a weaker mob when you start out.

I am still tweaking it but this seems to work:

[MM1 N/Mo;OANDUslfOL1jaVANoUrHtkqK]
[MM2 N/Mo;OANDUshtSLVVBHVYCLCJgGNVVA]
[Curse/Channel N/Rt;OAhkYgHcoIqT1uMs7sDYsERytqC]

You can have lots of minions this way for damage mitigation, and DS keeps coming in quite frequently for the party heal, along with barbs and splinter weapon for damage buff. You can, of course, replace Weapon of Fury with SS if you prefer. Remove Hex can also be replaced by Aegis.

Bront · May 14, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

DS,

I'd replace PS with Aegis. The MM uses Aegis quite well, and PS not so much (regularly used on Minions). Remove Hex is a good idea though.

Still not a fan of Shambling Horror, I've not had a problem getting a good chuck of Jagged minions without that. I'd rather throw Putred Bile on the MM instead (what I usually do), which causes some extra pressure and damage, particularly when stuff dies.

DarkSpirit · May 14, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

DS,

I'd replace PS with Aegis. The MM uses Aegis quite well, and PS not so much (regularly used on Minions). Remove Hex is a good idea though.

Still not a fan of Shambling Horror, I've not had a problem getting a good chuck of Jagged minions without that. I'd rather throw Putred Bile on the MM instead (what I usually do), which causes some extra pressure and damage, particularly when stuff dies.

Based on your feedback, I now have:

[Protection MM N/Mo;OANDUslfSLVVBoBKVKg1DBEVVA]
[Healing MM N/Mo;OANDUshtSLVVBYCLCJgGNTfVVA]
[Curse/Channel N/Rt;OAhkYgHcoIqU1WZwujdAGDjYyVVF]

People have said that PS is still useful in HM and with the energy these guys have, they should be able to spam it.

Variants:
Weapon of Fury can be replaced by SS
Feast for the Dead can be replaced by another Taste of Death if you are in an area where mobs are not far apart

Edit: Updated with Cure Hex

Subbie · May 14, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Based on your feedback, I now have:

[MM1 N/Mo;OANDUslfOL1qAaQpGQqHtkqK]
[MM2 N/Mo;OANDUshtSLVVBKgYCLCJgGNVVA]
[Curse/Channel N/Rt;OAhkYgHcoIqU1WZwujdAGDjYyVVF]

People have said that PS is still useful in HM and with the energy these guys have, they should be able to spam it.

The use of PS I wouldn't really advise neither, just like DarkSpirit, they spam it on Minnions instead on you :S
So you can better replace it, but keep Aegis though

DarkSpirit · May 15, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subbie

The use of PS I wouldn't really advise neither, just like DarkSpirit, they spam it on Minnions instead on you :S
So you can better replace it, but keep Aegis though

Given the fact PS is quite spammable with only 5s recharge and necros have almost infinite energy, if they spam it enough, there would probably get one right.

Arkantos · May 15, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subbie

The use of PS I wouldn't really advise neither, just like DarkSpirit, they spam it on Minnions instead on you :S
So you can better replace it, but keep Aegis though

Disable it and micro it when it's needed. Not really hard.

Bront · May 15, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Given the fact PS is quite spammable with only 5s recharge and necros have almost infinite energy, if they spam it enough, there would probably get one right.

You'd think so... but no

DarkSpirit · May 15, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

You'd think so... but no

They do make the right choice by casting it on someone who is about to die from focused fire, sometimes and energy doesn't seem to be a limitation, especially with 2 MM bombers.

Sab · May 15, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

From my experiences, the AI prioritizes keeping party members alive over minions - they only cast on minions if all party members are at full health. It makes sense in any case, that is, if party members and minions are treated equally, wouldn't that mean bringing any sort of AI healer with a MM in the party is a bad idea? After all, they'd be casting all sorts of stuff on the minions and letting anybody important die. That doesn't happen of course, and I don't recall seeing minions being Prot Spirited or otherwise directly healed during a battle that mattered.

Moloch Vein · May 15, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

From my experience so far AI uses Dwayna's Sorrow well now.

Trvth Jvstice · May 20, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I've been using the build Moloch posted earlier and it seems to work well - however I haven't used a Minion Bomber hero before, so I was wondering - now that the update is a few weeks old - if you agree that this is better than the standard Minion Bomber.

Moloch's Hero Minion Bomber May 2008
[build prof=N/Mo name="Hero Minion Bomber May 2008" death=12+1+3 soulr=8+1 healing=10 desc="Weapon Set: Spear w/ 20% enchantments, Focus (Healing or Death Magic) w/ Master Of My Domain/20%"][Jagged Bones][Infuse Condition][Death Nova][Dwayna's Sorrow][Animate Bone Minions][Heal Area][Feast For The Dead][Foul Feast][/build]

DarkSpirit · May 20, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I've been using the build Moloch posted earlier and it seems to work well - however I haven't used a Minion Bomber hero before, so I was wondering - now that the update is a few weeks old - if you agree that this is better than the standard Minion Bomber.

Moloch's Hero Minion Bomber May 2008
[build prof=N/Mo name="Hero Minion Bomber May 2008" death=12+1+3 soulr=8+1 healing=10 desc="Weapon Set: Spear w/ 20% enchantments, Focus (Healing or Death Magic) w/ Master Of My Domain/20%"][Jagged Bones][Infuse Condition][Death Nova][Dwayna's Sorrow][Animate Bone Minions][Heal Area][Feast For The Dead][Foul Feast][/build]

This is very similar to one of the MMs I have been working with. I took out Sab's N/Rt healer and replaced it with another MM with Dwayna's Sorrow.

I replaced Heal Area with Cure Hex. I should try this with Heal Area and see how that goes although some have said, on Page 2, that Heal Area is a bad idea.

Cathode_Reborn · May 21, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

[skill]Patient Spirit[/skill]

I use that on an MM with Dwayna's Sorrow sometimes since it's spec'd into healing now. If casted twice, it heals for a nice amount and outheals Heal Area also. Best thing is it can be casted on others to get a little more pressure off the healers along with DS.

odly · May 21, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

You don't have to put it on the MM.
If you have another hero with healing he'll cast it on the minnions as well.

This can either be a monk or some other X/Mo midliner.

DarkSpirit · May 21, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

[skill]Patient Spirit[/skill]

I use that on an MM with Dwayna's Sorrow sometimes since it's spec'd into healing now. If casted twice, it heals for a nice amount and outheals Heal Area also. Best thing is it can be casted on others to get a little more pressure off the healers along with DS.

The purpose of having the Heal Area on the MM is to heal the minions and the MM, not so much for general healing of the party members considering that the MM doesn't have any point to divine favor and has only 10 points to healing. But Heal Area on the MM generally works better for fiends than for melee minions, though it helps my MM to keep some minions alive longer in between fights.

Having Heal Area on the MM is an old school N/Mo build from Prophecies. Even though it is expensive, it works fine on my dual MM build due to more energy from Soul Reaping. I wanted to see if I can use it to balance keeping minions alive versus bombing, without resorting to BOTM sacrifice, and it has worked quite well for me.

Cathode_Reborn · May 21, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Without Fiends, Heal Area is nearly useless. Melee minions will almost never be adjacent to you during a fight. Now once the fight is done, you can spam BotM anyways because if there's no enemies around, the sac can be easily healed by your monks.

If you just want your minions to stay alive, especially with a 2nd MM there, Aura of the Lich is definitely the way to go.

DarkSpirit · May 22, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Without Fiends, Heal Area is nearly useless. Melee minions will almost never be adjacent to you during a fight.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Heal Area is useless for healing minions except for fiends.

During a battle, do I care to heal my 20 minions from my 2 minion bombers as much as possible? Not really. Otherwise, what is the use of a minion bomber if your minions hardly die? If your minions dont die then your Dwayna Sorrow, Death Nova, and Jagged Bones become useless. A minion bomber has to balance life/death of his minions, to know when to heal them and when to sacrifice them.

Quote:

Now once the fight is done, you can spam BotM anyways because if there's no enemies around, the sac can be easily healed by your monks.

How much sacrifice would BotM need for all 20 minions? The monk has to constantly drain his energy just to heal the MM all the way to the next mob which is not a useful strategy.

When the fight is over, the minions crowd around the MM as we move to another mob. This, is when Heal Area is most useful to me for healing minions.

Quote:

If you just want your minions to stay alive, especially with a 2nd MM there, Aura of the Lich is definitely the way to go.

And throw away Jagged Bones? I think not. Jagged Bones is an awesome elite for a MM bomber. Jagged Bones can give the MM an infinite supply of Jagged Horrors and enables the MM to operate in areas that normally do not have enough corpses.

Trvth Jvstice · May 22, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Heal Area is only for healing the Minions between battles. During a battle, a Minion Bomber should have no interest in healing his Minions.

Kahri · May 24, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Edit: Now that I look on wiki and not just mouse over, I figured it out. Sorry :P