Curse

Windf0rce · Jun 15, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Myself and my brother are going to try a self imposed challenge now that we are pretty much done with our main characters now (not GWAMM, but all of PvE is beat).

Everyone claims "PvE is easy" and can be rolled with any class, so we want something more difficult and wanted to pick the weakest class(es) to finish PvE (including hard mode) with.

We'll mostly play 2 of us together with 6 heroes. We might add further handicaps, such as not learn any Elite or PvE skills, not use Necro Heroes or any Heroes at all, just H/H. Getting Legendary Survivor is a given, we'll delete any characters that die in the way, and we are not allowed to farm XP.

I was thinking Ritualist would be a pretty difficult class, as they are squishy and their primary attribute is very weak, giving basically no advantage over other classes.

Suggestions on classes and handicaps please. Either 2 different professions (that hopefully won't synergize well at all), or same profession for me and my brother.

Gift3d · Jun 15, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

pve skills make any class strong, here's a rit example

assassin's promise
spirit rift
you move like a dwarf
ebon vanguard assassin
by ural's hammer
splinter weapon
ancestor's rage

etc etc. if you want a real handicap just don't use pve skills.

Megas XLR · Jun 15, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Dervishes - Sadly, don't do as much damage and has less defensive capabilities all around compared to Assassin and Warrior. Frankly, I did everything with my Dervish and it wasn't all that hard.

Elementalists - Damage isn't armor ignoring compared to Mesmer/Monk/Necro, very noticeable in HM.

The best classes to play for PvE are Paragon, Assassin/Warrior (preference), and Necromancer. Honestly, everything is good at PvE though, some classes just overshadow others.

faraaz · Jun 15, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

To be very honest, atm, I think the weaker class is Ranger or Ritualist..not so much in PvE NM, but HM. Rangers re like, jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option.

anders_O · Jun 15, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Well in my opinion most classes don't get alot harder in HM, they just get less fun due to less dps. As people over me have said pve is easy no matter what class as long as you have pve skills. I imagine playing a mesmer or rit without pve only skills would be the hardest. Im sure you can find yourself useful, but it will be harder because both classes focus heavily on pve only skills (especially mesmer).
I have played derv quite a bit in both nm and hm, and to be honest it's not really hardet to play them in hm, its simply less fun due to the low damage. You usually end up letting your heroes do the main damage while you just run around doing exactly the same as in nm, but doing less dps.

Just my 2 copper zaishen coins..

majikmajikmajik · Jun 15, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

my opinion, if you want the ulti GW challenge, play from prophecies->factions->nightfall->eotn. cant use heroes til nightfall(this includes zenmai and olias) play prophecies till acsension(lvl20 basicly) and then start on hm... good luck

playing with people is incouraged(they can use their heroes) but this is all honor rules and is only limited by your own urge for difficulty and imagination.

sonofthort · Jun 15, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

It's kind of a tricky thing determining which class is the weakest in PvE, as they all have there ups and downs. For the most part, sins aren't too good in PvE unless they have shadow form or maybe flashing blades. I remember when factions first arrived there were so many assasins around and nobody wanted them in there groups cus they sucked, they had a tendency to just die, and really do nothing for the group. Ritualists I would think are a pretty weak class for PvE, but then again they can heal, which gives them some advantages over other classes. Rangers can be pretty strong even without elites like barrage. They have powerful single target attacks, you can make combos like mark of rodgort conjure flame kindle arrows dual shot with a vampiric bow, without using any elites, or channeling magic combos like splinter weapon or nightmare weapon, and also use good evasion and running skills. Warriors and paragons are both pretty good cus of there armor and defenses, as well as damage capabilities. Mesmers have typically been a rare breed in pve, but now adays they are useful with there armor ignoring damage and abilities to nuke better than ele's, but without some of the skills that allow them to nuke they are pretty weak in pve. I would have to say it is between assasin, mesmer, and ritualist.

Jaigoda · Jun 15, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Ranger or Rit is the worst class in the game.

Monk is potentially the hardest profession in the game.

And if you're going to go for Legendary Survivor without farming, I'd say you've given yourself a difficult enough goal.

Squishy ftw · Jun 15, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

proph only skills on you + heroes, go monk. Heal, no smite.

sonofthort · Jun 15, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

proph only skills on you + heroes, go monk. Heal, no smite.

Judging by his avatar I would say his first char was a monk

AtomicMew · Jun 15, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

There's plenty of areas that are difficult for anyone wihtout deliberately gimping yourself, especially with only 2 man heroway. Try UW, FOW, DOA, Urgoz, etc.

When people say "PvE is easy" they just mean 99% of it is. I wouldn't say that everything is easy though.

poasiods · Jun 15, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Rangers may seem 'bad' to tards who can't look beyond OP PvE gimmick skills, but they can be crucial to the party's survival by interrupting/dazing the mobs' main nukers or healers. Playing Ranger correctly in PvE wouldn't make things all that difficult for you at all. Some of the more ridiculous groups you'd usually end up trying to over-power and out-heal would go down more easily with dazed healers and nukers.

If you're remaking your characters everytime you die, I'd suggest Warriors. You'll mostly be depending on other party members for heals, making it pretty easy to get killed once in awhile. If your hench healer decides to cast Healing Breeze on you while you're getting your ass stomped, that'd be game over for you right there. Sounds like fun, eh?

Hanging Man · Jun 15, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

I'd say that ele would be the hardest profession.
because they work wonderfully in nm but you do notice you'll be playing more defensive than offensive.
their dps is extremely weak due to all the enemies extremely high armor.
I like this idea
GL & godspeed

Faure · Jun 15, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

To be very honest, atm, I think the weaker class is Ranger or Ritualist..not so much in PvE NM, but HM. Rangers re like, jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option.

disclaimer: i'm not takin pve only skills in account

I think BHA would disagree. Apart from PvE skills it's a very good (and only) option to daze monks, who especially in Hm are not an easy catch for interrupting with mesmer interrupts (or bow interupts for that matter).

I personally think mesmers are the hardest class to play. It's very difficult to make yourself useful. Interrupts i think rangers do better because they can interrupt more often. Ele's do the damage, together with necro's if they are specced to it. Warriors tank, and monks heal. A mesmer can slow doen (ele's water magic), interrupt (rangers bow) or shutdown (no counter from other classes) and degen/e-denial which i both don't value in pve, with L30 mobs and as it seems nonstop energy. Though, a good mesmer with a build suited to the situation can be very usefull if played by an experienced player. Ineptitude-based builds can be nice, though i might opt for a blinding surge ele/anti-melee necro.
I would say even rit and para are quite 'easy' to play, since you have a very clear task. As a rit or paragon you either healsupport or dmgsupport (imo same, since it's mostly the same attributerange). Not necessarily usefull but not hard to do. Again, I'm not taking pve skills into account here, so things like mobilespirits or imbagon don't apply here.

An easy class imo to start with is necro or ranger. They don't have the MOST important tasks in a group, but still are useful. Warrior seems easy but a team stands or falls with a good frontliner. Monks same. Necromancers Minions or curses are very usefull, but if you suck at it or need to get the hang of the class, your party won't die (unless you really are bad, but then any class is hard). Same with rangers, but instead of being useful when you are bad, you are more survivable and therefore can prevent a partywhipe (if you have a res).

Mikkelet · Jun 15, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

(for all who thinks rits are weak!)
I go for rits. Ofc assas got the permasin build and such, but I find ritualist rather funny to play. People just say they're weak because they've never tried a rit with a good build. Spirits+painful bond = good armor ignoring damage. Destructive was Glaive and any rit dmg spell = good dmg, too. All the healing spells heals for about 100 (spirit light, MBaS and Soothing memories). plus inremovable (sp?) weapon spells for o.k. protection (you can always combine with other proffs.). Spirit's Strenght for superior dmg!

their ways are countless, but difficult to find. And yes, they do a good job in HM, too.

I also got a ranger actually. With the Quick Shot Needling strategy (found on gamependium), HM is piece of cake, too. +plus splinter barrage is awsome!

I do not think you can define weak and strong proffs.
Rit vs. assa = permasin vs. rit who AoE dmg.
Ranger vs. warrior = tanker vs. blocker (and perhabs trapper, I'unno)

and so on...

Rivenheart · Jun 15, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by poasiods

Rangers may seem 'bad' to tards who can't look beyond OP PvE gimmick skills, but they can be crucial to the party's survival by interrupting/dazing the mobs' main nukers or healers. Playing Ranger correctly in PvE wouldn't make things all that difficult for you at all. Some of the more ridiculous groups you'd usually end up trying to over-power and out-heal would go down more easily with dazed healers and nukers.

/agreed - there is a huge difference between a good ranger and a bad one, and hard mode only emphasizes the need for proper shutdown of a nuker or healer.

Probably the most difficult profession would be a Ritualist in HM. As previously said, Spawning Power is not incredibly useful to begin with and coupled with the fact that spirits are low level, and you find your options for HM looking rather bleak.

Its nice to see people trying to do things themselves to make the game fun rather than just whining at Anet. Good luck and my the Gods be with you.

faraaz · Jun 15, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

To poasiods, Faure, Rivenheart...clearly you did not read my post:

Allow me to requote, for your reading pleasure, in bold.

Quote:

I'm not saying Rangers are bad. I'm just saying, compared to all the other professions, Rangers arent the strongest option.

If you speak any other native language I can translate.

Btw, for everyone saying rangers are pro interrupters etc...imo knockdown is a better interrupt. =]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

And if you're going to go for Legendary Survivor without farming, I'd say you've given yourself a difficult enough goal.

Did it on my warrior...not too hard if you take a bonder with you everywhere you go.

Expherious · Jun 16, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Dervs are weak and are outplayed by the other melees
rangers are extremely boring
I loved playing mezzies b4 CoP.

Betrayer of Wind · Jun 16, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I'd sugest playing mesmer without pve skills,since its alot of fun and tactical,and u'll have alot of trainning trying to interrupt on HM ^^

Rangers are also very fun to play with due to their versatility,so alot of options for team builds since they can run basically any weapon and tank fairly effective.

Henchies arent fun,so i'd defently use heroes to make alot of mixed builds and stuff.

Ritualist,they are very good suportive characters,can give good party wide heals,a spirit spam build can do a huge DPS on HM,and splinter weapon is just too good to not bring if using any physical characters on the party.

Is true that they dont have alot of versatility using other profession skills besides spirit strenght builds.even tho its not highly effective either,so yeah its kinda of a boring profession after u play a couple builds and not many options left.

Challenges are meant to be enjoyable,so dont limit yourself too much imo,but be creative about the team builds u gonna use,like lets say 8x HaO rangers?IWAY warriors?FC nukers?idk ill leave it up to you lol

poasiods · Jun 16, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

To poasiods, Faure, Rivenheart...clearly you did not read my post:

Allow me to requote, for your reading pleasure, in bold.

If you speak any other native language I can translate.

Btw, for everyone saying rangers are pro interrupters etc...imo knockdown is a better interrupt. =]

In future, I would recommend that you pay more attention to see if you're actually making a valid claim with support. All I see are one post containing vague claims and another post with more vagueness and attempts at trying to be offensive while wanting to look clever.

Now, if you would kindly hold it in and tell everyone why it is that you think rangers are "jack of all trades and master of none" but "not the strongest option compared to other classes," that'd be much nicer, don't you think? To make it easier for you, good examples of would be something like, "unless there are serious investments into certain attributes, rangers typically fall in middle of all classes when it comes to damage or survivability. However, some of their abilities such as applying conditions and interrupting are not universal to all classes. These attributes give me the impression that although rangers may not be over the top at certain things, their wide variety of applications make them the jack of all trades and master of none."

Now, isn't that so much better than blurting something out and just re-quoting it in another post?

Of course, quoting that silly thing you said against what others said about the importance of dazing in HM shows that you didn't really intake what you read. There are three posts explaining why BHA ranger is one of the most important elements to include in HM, and you waltz in here to quote yourself saying they aren't really a strong option compared to other classes. Excuse me, I'm gonna /facepalm and go pass out.