Curse

kanuks · Sep 29, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_UK

you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

this is just yet another pointless nerf sf thread even if it started about ursans, people really need to stfu and wait for them to nerf sf insted of bitching bout it

oh yeah.. ursans not op LOL, every class could run ursans, only sins can run perma sf...

You're not so bright aren't you? According to you, OP skills in any video games should never be nerfed because the players will always have the choice not to use them. That is one of the most stupid thing I've heard. Thank god you are not a game developper (Not that you obviously would never be smart enough to become one anyway).

~ Dan ~ · Sep 29, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

According to you, OP skills in any video games should never be nerfed because the players will always have the choice not to use them. That is one of the most stupid thing I've heard.

^

Players don't have a choice not to use perma, since every PuG will only be running that build. There's no variation. If someone requesting to join a speedclear on their sin said "no, i want to run moebius instead of SF, and that's my choice" they get alienated like a derv in PvP.

Then again why would anyone want to join a PuG anyway?

turbo234 · Sep 29, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_UK

you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo234

and no there isn't a law, but do you realize how hard it is to find a normal group nowadays when all people want to do is clear in <20mins. no thanks

so i herd reading waz gud

also

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_UK

oh yeah.. ursans not op LOL, every class could run ursans, only sins can run perma sf...

in ursan's current state no it isn't overpowered, but we're talking about if it was reverted. back then it was overpowered.

Cherrie · Oct 02, 2009, 11:52 AM // 11:52

I say I must agree.

I hated all those title track skills as they have changed old good GW forever (from GW when no amount of farm would give you any advantage over another player to one where you were required to farm to get into a group), but as OP said - it was transcending the classes. Ursan Way could be done with any setup (and some healers), also classes that were not so much wanted in farm and speed groups.
Now if you want to farm some, you need to make an Assasin.
It's sad.

kostolomac · Oct 02, 2009, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I liked how everyone screamed about ursan being OP and celebrating it's nerf. Now we have shadow form clears which are even faster and even more stupid in it's requirements.
It got a lot better didn't it guise amirite?

kanuks · Oct 04, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

I liked how everyone screamed about ursan being OP and celebrating it's nerf. Now we have shadow form clears which are even faster and even more stupid in it's requirements.
It got a lot better didn't it guise amirite?

It did get better because Ursan was OP but yeah it did get worse because SF got even more abused. The problem isn't nerfing Ursan, it's SF being even more OP. Hence the reason why many peoples wants it nerfed.

talisk3 · Oct 05, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

I enjoy running Shadowform.
But really, all they need to do is change it to a stance.
That way deadly paradox won't help ^^

talon994 · Oct 05, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by talisk3

I enjoy running Shadowform.
But really, all they need to do is change it to a stance.
That way deadly paradox won't help ^^

Drunken Master

MercenaryKnight · Oct 05, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon994

Drunken Master

Actually it's dwarven stability to increase stance, dwarven master is the ias/ ims stance.

Life Bringing · Oct 05, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon994

Drunken Master

Anet would do something stupid such as that. "We felt SF was too powerful, so we decided to make it a stance, so DP wouldnt effect it." Week later anet realizes that nothing has changed and perma is actually easier.

Dusk_ · Oct 08, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

SF locks up 2/8 slots at most. If you don't want to play a sin, then play one of the other 6 slots. Ursanway gave much greater range of characters that you could use, but a far, far worse range of builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

^

Players don't have a choice not to use perma, since every PuG will only be running that build. There's no variation. If someone requesting to join a speedclear on their sin said "no, i want to run moebius instead of SF, and that's my choice" they get alienated like a derv in PvP.

And how does nerfing SF change this? The next speed clear build will still be ridiculing your moebius sin.

There will always be speedclear builds, and nothing will change that. It's absolutely stupid to think otherwise. SF just happens to be the best and most efficient method of clearing right now, which is why it's so prominent.

There is one and only one thing that nerfing SF will do: slow things down. That's it. You can debate whether that's a good thing or not, but don't think for a second that SF is the only reason why your random build isn't being picked.

RadaArashi · Oct 08, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

I think Shadow Form should be changed to the way it used to work. That is, to give you 20ish seconds of invulnerability to do whatever it is you want to do and then a considerable downtime and great vulnerability when its over.

Of course it should be tweaked around so, taking into account Deadly Paradox/Glyph/Consumables or Arcane Echo, you still have a considerable downtime.

Crippie its Tom · Oct 08, 2009, 03:24 AM // 03:24

you guys are forgetting that the primary reason ursanway was nerfed is because of the rank discrimination.

Shyft the Pyro · Oct 08, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crippie its Tom

you guys are forgetting that the primary reason ursanway was nerfed is because of the rank discrimination.

Towards the end it became profession discrimination too. People didn't want a R10 Necro; they wanted R10 Warriors who had higher base AL (which is why the post-nerf Ursan modifies your AL). So anyone who claims Ursan was the "great equalizer" is just blinded by nostalgia.

My War · Oct 08, 2009, 06:00 AM // 06:00

MY BIGGEST BITCH WITH SHADOW FORM IS.....Sins are not tank's,A-Net designed them to not be used as tanks, there suppose to be in out spikers/killers, before the party knew what hit it, now with SHadow Form....they replaced the tanks...Nerf it so u cant keep it perma....Here is an Idea for the RETARDS that work at A-Net

Glyph of Swiftness=Only works for ele skill's===BUT WHY?...stop generic Perma Farmers

Deadly Paradox=Doesnt effect sin Enchantments===BUT WHY?...Stop Perma's with consets

Revert Ursan....NAH, ursan was shit, it did take a touch of thought, and not any noob could get a group and do it, i was with many r10 fail ursan groups because they didnt know what "make a wall" meant, or to Chain the Knockdowns in certain areas

Oh and i usually cant run Solo/Farming builds...i picked up shadow form in 1 second and was doing VSF runs without dying on my first attempt/every other attempt, DoA tanking was to easy...RELY on monk/self awarness and others to damage

so basically both skill's suck, Ursan should be left as a nerfed piece of crap it is, and SHadow form need to be buried into rubel....oh and there nerf on shadow form...just made it so u had to use a +16 shadow arts head piece...BIG WHOOP

A-Net brags how it loves balanced game play, but they take over 4 months to nerf the unbalanced.

oh but the reason people preffer Ursan PUGS to normal PUGS=get a leader, who invites 2 monks, 3 warriors, and random classes...of course thats fail...people just need to use there brains in this game, enough said

Ccat · Oct 09, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

There is one and only one thing that nerfing SF will do: slow things down. That's it. You can debate whether that's a good thing or not, but don't think for a second that SF is the only reason why your random build isn't being picked.

That's good, it just depends how much it is slowed down. If it's slowed down to 30 minutes, then that's no good. If it takes hours to complete no matter what you use, that's great, ironically... or it would have been great if this whole Speed Clear meta hadn't come along in the first place.

_______________________________________

The game needs a balance - one where a massive multitude of builds can be used, and new ideas can be presented. You can't possibly think of anything more overpowered than Shadow From realistically, so there's nothing that can beat it. that's what is wrong with the meta. Because people are plainly and crudely forced to use Assassins and throw the rest away. Yes, there are a few Ranger and Monk slots here and there but honestly, they either consist of sitting on your arse and casting a shitting spirit every minute or are taken up by someone else, who had no intention of ever making a sin.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this can be done now. Like Dusk said, from this point on there will always be a speed clear. They could nerf every skill so bad it would make speed clears of any type impossible, but obviously that results in a widespread alienation of the players.

Anet should have never got themselves into this situation in the first place, responding to so many 'problems' they stepped in to the biggest pile of shit of all. I hope they've learnt from this, truly. Then again if GW2 has the 8 skill setup, Anet have learnt nothing.

Dusk_ · Oct 12, 2009, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ccat

That's good, it just depends how much it is slowed down. If it's slowed down to 30 minutes, then that's no good. If it takes hours to complete no matter what you use, that's great, ironically... or it would have been great if this whole Speed Clear meta hadn't come along in the first place.

_______________________________________

The game needs a balance - one where a massive multitude of builds can be used, and new ideas can be presented. You can't possibly think of anything more overpowered than Shadow From realistically, so there's nothing that can beat it. that's what is wrong with the meta. Because people are plainly and crudely forced to use Assassins and throw the rest away. Yes, there are a few Ranger and Monk slots here and there but honestly, they either consist of sitting on your arse and casting a shitting spirit every minute or are taken up by someone else, who had no intention of ever making a sin.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this can be done now. Like Dusk said, from this point on there will always be a speed clear. They could nerf every skill so bad it would make speed clears of any type impossible, but obviously that results in a widespread alienation of the players.

Anet should have never got themselves into this situation in the first place, responding to so many 'problems' they stepped in to the biggest pile of shit of all. I hope they've learnt from this, truly. Then again if GW2 has the 8 skill setup, Anet have learnt nothing.

The thing is that it's an IMPOSSIBLE thing to deal with. It's not a matter of balance or unbalance, it's simply the desire of the player base to optimize. As long as one method works better than another, that method will be used. It's literally impossible to make all methods completely and totally equal.

If speed-clears are nerfed completely, so that they are no longer profitable to do, then people will just move on to another farming method, since there is no more incentive to clear those areas anymore.

No matter what happens, you will never get this ideal situation that people here are daydreaming about; the ones where your random PUGs will be just as favourable as structured and planned teams.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with the 8-skill setup. Take that away, and you have your generic MMO crap again: Tank, Healer, DPS. The limited skillbars have done a lot more for the community and the game than an unlimited skillbar ever would.

ix James Wai the bladed · Oct 12, 2009, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo234

/notsigned
my reason being that that's all you will see looking for groups again. i want the real builds to come back into play

Quoted for Truth ^^. Agreed, i want a challenge in the game not easy builds that can clear ELITE AREAS in half an hour. That the whole reason why they are called Elite areas lawl

brandnew · Oct 19, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

To be honest, the fact that Shadow Form is more overpowered then Ursan was doesn't make Ursan not-overpowered; It makes Shadow Form retardedly overpowered.

I myself liked Ursan better, though. With Shadow Form I can't even use skills on recharge to win and go /highfive. (although..)

paranon · Oct 19, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

The stupid thing is that if anet had nerfed perma as soon as it was found then there would have been no problems, if someone had discovered that you could keep it permanantly then next thursday it said in the update news:

*Fixed a bug with Deadly Paradox that allowed Shadow Form to be kept up permanantly.

Then there would have been absolutely no fuss about it, because 95% of people didn't know about it. What i wanna know is what the hell is anet doing with things like this:

*Fixed a bug that made Murakai, Lady of the Night use the skill "Murakai's Call" incorrectly, causing her to spawn an infinite number of allies.

which are so trivial they are almost meaningless, when people can still complete the "hardest" area in the game in <15 minutes.

They don't even need to nerf anything, they just have to fix deadly paradox so it does what it says in the skill description..