Curse

wtfisgoingon · May 19, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadaArashi

Anet has added aftercast to each one of them for a reason. Even the unused Shadow Fang so there's obviously harm in there.

unused by sins.
nerfed NOT because of sins.
nerfed due to WARRIORS AGAIN. understand yet?
which is why I've said all shadowsteps move to asns ONLY
enough said.

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I play a sin, I have for the last 26 months according to /age and I'd consider it my main character so what I'm about to tell you is from sin player to sin player ok?

my sins been my main since factions was released.
you're a sin player and you want your sin to sit idle in gvg matches? or do you want them to be back on gvg metas? or maybe because you are just one of those perma sins chest running 24/7 and doesnt affect you?
the reason why i said the most people replying ''sins should stay in low end pvp'' are non-sin players because they are the war players, they dont care if sins are in gvg or not.

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You're wrong. You have no RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing clue what you're talking about.

ill just ignore that silly statement since its an indication of initial flaming.

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Do you even know anything about warrior mobility? I'm surprised you don't know from all the posts that have been trying to explain it. A warrior's mobility takes some judgment, correct positioning. A sin's takes a button, followed by 23456.

thats only if you are comparing warriors running to assassins shadowstepping.
the instant travel is balanced off with many disadvantages the sins have. since you didnt read any of my previous post, ill have to retype them AGAIN.
the trade off for the instant travel is
1) lower armor <- meant for hit-and-run
2) inability to fake spike <- meant for hit-and-run
3) chaining combo <- more easy to disable sin than war. also <- meant for hit-and-run
4) weak base damage
5) etc. im sure you can think of many more if you actually used your head.
so dont complain about shadowsteps. if you will, then you might as well complain about casters/rangers being able to attack at range, and they also ignore positioning right??

an asn's mobility also takes some judgment and correct positioning.
if you disagree, then you are also complaining about casters/rangers/paragons ignoring positioning. right?

so like i've said before over and over and over again, positioning/shadowstepping argument = fail and absurd argument all around!
you are the one who doesnt know what you're talking about

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The "buff" you're looking for is trying to turn the sin back to its shadow prison days where you could kill anything every few seconds, which was terrible concept in a balanced game. I don't want my favorite class to go back to that.

really?
even if they buff shadowsteps,
what ias do they have to achieve the speed/effectiveness of BoA sins back then?
what combos do they have to achieve the dmg output of BoA sins back hen?
seems like you're the one who doesnt know what you're talking about.

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No one's flaming you. Flaming you would be to call you offensive names, people are merely telling you that you're wrong and providing an argument and all you do is go "are not!" without providing anything to back you up.

I didnt call anyone offensive names, and I got banned due to so-called ''flaming''. the flaming made by other posters were deleted by the mods, and the mods decided to ban + delete my posts instead.

i've provided thought-out valid arguments, go read through all my posts in this thread, youll seem them.

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I didn't like to admit it either in the past, but after some recent experience (I'll admit, I still got troubles with Frenzy, so I use Flail) I can tell its true, playing a warrior takes more skill, judgment and awareness than playing an Assassin, as well as Dervish, Necromancer, Paragon, Ritualist. These classes have design flaws which I hope to see fixed in GW2 (specially assassin). Other classes that take skill to play are also Ranger, Monk, Ele and Mesmer.

i've played both sin and war before as stated before in my previous post
equally skilled in both.
in my experience, both require the same amount of skill.
the only profession i find that requires a greater amount of skill is monking.
everyone's got their own opinion, so i am not going to keep arguing about the silly ''skill' topic with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

a 5 second dash is stupid no matter what profession its limited to. there's no argument, yet you still try to. nothing should have that much mobility. you haven't done anything to prove that assassins, already arguably the most mobile profession, should have MORE mobility.

you're the guy who admitted and said ''rangers/wars have mobility covered and sins are NOT needed'', and then edited your post at the last minute adding ''sins already are more mobile than both of them and it doesnt matter'' attempting to defend your previous statement

i didnt state why they should be more mobile in previous post because i thought you have read my previous posts and have figured out why,
ironically claiming to be more knowledgeable than me,
you still are struggling on why asns should have superior mobility
so i guess ill spoon feed it to you
1) all melees already has what the sin has and better
2) wars/rangers/dervs all have superior mobility compared to sins in the long run
3) sins need a place in gvg (you said instagib is absurb for sins, and shadowstepping ignoring position is overpowered) i am suggesting superior mobility now.<- giving them a distinct quality will help bring them back
4) you cant give wars a all-in-one-package quality front line, they have to be nerfed somehow in order to give room for the sin to re-enter the gvg metas.
5) weak base damage
6) inability to fake spike
7) inability to pressue
8) all around not viable in gvg. needs buff in order to be in metas once more.

like ive said before moriz, i know you're the type of bias person, judging from what you have posted.
enough said though,
its either buff sin mobility or nerf war/ranger mobility.

maxxfury · May 19, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Purely from the outside.

When rangers had assassin level spikes with super "mobility"
(eg. ba flail turrets) they got nerfed.
as a rangers "mobility" is its ranged attack, and with big spike damage at flatbow range was bad for the game, totally removed the need for positioning to output big spikes.

When warriors were abusing shadowsteps, unloading big spikes, nerfed.
Due to taking away the need for positioning to unload big spikes, again, making the game bad.

EXACTLY the Same deal with sins, and been the ones who ORIGINALLY abused this. been able to unload big spikes with no need for positioning...yup, you guessed it. BAD for the game.

Positioning IS a huge part of the tactics of this game, no matter what ANYONE says. When the need for it is removed, the game turns into a no skill standoff shoot out of sorts. point and click!

So, on that note, shadow steps arent gonna be "un nerfed" thats just how it is. The game might not be super balanced right now, but removing the need for positioning is a major step backwards!

How do you propose to "nerf warriors mobility"? take away their IMS's?

Sins need something OTHER than instagib and/or shadow stepping to get back in the meta, as both "traits" are broken and make the game worse...wether or not they would get the sin back in gvg. But what that will be? No idea, and it seems neither does Anet.

Right now its a matter of damage reduction, break the game and have sins abusing again, ruining it for the vast majority who actively pvp, or ruin it for the much smaller amount of "sins" who could just play another class.

The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few in this case. And at this stage of the game, a whole class reworking is pretty much a no no due to the staff restrictions and the time/effort needed that would take away from the needed stuff, like general balance.

As i said, needs of the many.

wtfisgoingon · May 19, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

EXACTLY the Same deal with sins, and been the ones who ORIGINALLY abused this. been able to unload big spikes with no need for positioning...yup, you guessed it. BAD for the game.

...asns cannot abuse shadowsteps because thats how they were meant to played.
asns are just spikers just like any caster spikers
its the same thing as a caster spiking at range, except sins needs direct contact to attack...
so if you think about it, sins are actually losing a slot for that instant travel...

even without shadowsteps, sins should still be superior in terms of mobility compared to wars, hence the reason for 5 sec dash...
anet hasnt done that though,
they've given the war all the necessary qualities as a front line, therefore needs a nerf.
what nerf? i dont know, anet can decide.
but you cant just give wars all the necessary qualities and get everyone to create a war and forget about the other two melees.

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Positioning IS a huge part of the tactics of this game, no matter what ANYONE says. When the need for it is removed, the game turns into a no skill standoff shoot out of sorts. point and click!

...so you're saying positions are 100% maintained during a gvg battle? nobody moves? frontline fights frontlines, backlines all stand still and heal the frontlines and midlines?

i dont understand why everyone is complaining about the positioning issues with assassins&shadowsteps, because those two go in hand in hand, its the asn's play style. hence the reason shadowsteps should be asn only, its hit and run. only the instagib part of it is the unbalanced part and that part is already ruled out.

moriz · May 19, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

do you honestly think positioning is just stand there in one place and not move? no, positioning is constantly being adjusted while maintaining a basic battle-line. for instance, a monk might move around quite a bit to dodge warriors, but still stays in the backline. a monk who runs headfirst into the frontline would be out of position.

how does assassins negate positioning? their shadowsteps allow them to instantly move from point A to point B, and opponents can no longer actively position themselves out of the way to avoid/reduce damage. hence why shadowstepping has always been so problematic: it destroys one of the fundamental aspects of the game.

i'm not surprised you don't know anything about positioning. your entire thread is testament to this fact.

btw, assassins already have better mobility than warriors. shadow walk does not have aftercast, assuming you are smart enough to get around the attack skill disable (palm strike coughcough). shadow walk is not usable for warriors. there's also the new wastrel's collapse. while it does have aftercast, it doesn't matter because of the KD. warriors cannot use that. all in all, assassins already have better mobility than warriors, especially short ranged, "burst" mobility. there's no need for a 5 second dash.

wtfisgoingon · May 19, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

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opponents can no longer actively position themselves out of the way to avoid/reduce damage. hence why shadowstepping has always been so problematic: it destroys one of the fundamental aspects of the game.

lol? did you just start playing gw? do you know what kiting is? do you know how to watch your radar and watch your position as a sin is coming?
and yet you're the one talking me not understand positioning, ironic isnt it?

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i'm not surprised you don't know anything about positioning. your entire thread is testament to this fact.

yeah positioning is so hard to understand you have to get a ph.d in it to know all the elements. pfft.

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btw, assassins already have better mobility than warriors. shadow walk does not have aftercast, assuming you are smart enough to get around the attack skill disable (palm strike coughcough). shadow walk is not usable for warriors. there's also the new wastrel's collapse. while it does have aftercast, it doesn't matter because of the KD. warriors cannot use that.

sins dont have better mobility than warriors except for shadowsteps, and you know for a fact that all shadowsteps are a joke atm pfft.

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all in all, assassins already have better mobility than warriors, especially short ranged, "burst" mobility. there's no need for a 5 second dash.

of course you dont want 5 second dash, because you have no interest in sins so you wont want a profession that you dont like able to chase you down. you arent even trying to find a way to balance them so they can come back, you want them out completely. the only solution you have contributed to this thread on how to bring them back is to remove them completely from gvg. you're against sins and bias towards them, all your posts in this thread are testaments to this fact. there's no reason to even listen to you.

moriz · May 19, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

lol? did you just start playing gw? do you know what kiting is? do you know how to watch your radar and watch your position as a sin is coming?
and yet you're the one talking me not understand positioning, ironic isnt it?

alright. you try to kite, while i press a single button to get right in your face no matter how far you kite. wait that's incorrect.... you can run all the way back into the your base with me chasing, but that's pretty damn effective also. the point is, as you so clearly noted, kiting doesn't do jack squat against assassins. maybe you are unskilled enough to miss pressing a single button to negate kiting, but most peopeople aren't.

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yeah positioning is so hard to understand you have to get a ph.d in it to know all the elements. pfft.

judging by how you thought positioning is somehow "static", i'd say it does. or at least, to you.

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sins dont have better mobility than warriors except for shadowsteps, and you know for a fact that all shadowsteps are a joke atm pfft.

so you admit they have better mobility than warriors since they do have shadowsteps. current shadowsteps are weak compared to the overpowered ones that come before, but they are no means inconsequential. well, maybe to you. for the rest of us, we can easily exploit the advantages that they still give us.

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of course you dont want 5 second dash, because you have no interest in sins so you wont want a profession that you dont like able to chase you down. you arent even trying to find a way to balance them so they can come back, you want them out completely. the only solution you have contributed to this thread on how to bring them back is to remove them completely from gvg. you're against sins and bias towards them, all your posts in this thread are testaments to this fact. there's no reason to even listen to you.

i am interested in having a balanced game. you are obviously not interested in one, or you are just too ignorant to realize how stupidly powerful a 5 second dash is, no matter who you give it to.

as for my supposed "bias" against assassins... please note that i played an assassin way before you started playing GW. i wrote the original guide on them way back in '06, and have played them quite extensively in EVERY arena, gvg included. next to my ranger, assassin is my most often played profession. i know the ins and outs of everything you can think of for assassins, as well as a few things that you obviously don't know. you cannot claim any bias on my part. indeed, it should be said that you are heavily biased FOR assassins beyond reason.

with all my experience with assassins, here's what will happen if i suddenly have a 5 second dash: i'll become mostly invincible. a 5 second dash will allow me to run away from almost any situation, chase down any target, and out-position almost any profession in a straight-up fight. with a 5 second dash, i'll be able to simutaneously combo on a target while quarterstepping away from another target chasing me, without slowing down my combo. it would take around four different players to keep me around long enough to kill me, even with a snare. a 5 second dash will allow me to run at mostly 100% even with a snare.

needless to say, a 5 second dash would make an assassin played by anyone of my caliber to be grossly overpowered, and i'm hardly a worldclass player. maybe it would allow YOU to be competitive for once, but game balance shouldn't have to make up for your lacking.

Revelations · May 19, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

This crap got revived? I'm not going to bother attempting to argue my viewpoint further. The majority of people here are in agreement, so it will just be ignored and followed by a bunch of retarded bullshit from the person who isn't. However, I am going to quote this for emphasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

I'm not even really going to bother with the positioning/shadowstep argument. If you don't understand by now how pushing one button and instantly being in range to unload your damage negates things like movement control and positioning, you never will. Besides, pretty much all your replies are either theorycrafting from someone who's never played a warrior or "I already replied to this earlier", when in fact you haven't. Unless you count "sins are unique" as a valid argument for shadowsteps.

And also;

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Originally Posted by RadaArashi

Even the unused Shadow Fang

Apparently you don't obs mode. Though without WE to fuel it shadow fang probably isn't quite so stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

i've provided thought-out valid arguments, go read through all my posts in this thread, youll seem them.

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Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

ive played both wars + sins in all pvp regions.
i am equally skilled in sin & war.
the only difference about me compared to the ones on here is that im NOT bias towards sins like everyone on here is.
im comparing both sides equally.

I lol'd. Hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtfisgoingon

its the same thing as a caster spiking at range, except sins needs direct contact to attack...

Show me a caster that can deliver upwards of 400 damage to a single target in 4 seconds with the target remaining knocklocked for that entire duration.

wtfisgoingon · May 19, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

alright. you try to kite, while i press a single button to get right in your face no matter how far you kite. wait that's incorrect.... you can run all the way back into the your base with me chasing, but that's pretty damn effective also. the point is, as you so clearly noted, kiting doesn't do jack squat against assassins. maybe you are unskilled enough to miss pressing a single button to negate kiting, but most peopeople aren't.

honestly, since you complain about asns instantly traveling to unleash attacks a problem, do you complain about casters and rangers who attack at range without even needing to travel a distance to attack you a problem also?
do you know how to kite after an asn shadowsteps? or do you believe shadowsteps disables your movements for x seconds? do you know how to watch the radar for an asn?
if an asn has kd'ed you after shadowstepping, you know how to use your mic or ping right? or maybe you are playing ab without the ventrilo/proper
communication between your monks.
maybe after a buff to sins, well actually able to depict an asn that is deadly enough for people to keep ''tabbing'' and watch out for a asn.
whats an assassin doing in the battlefield being ignored? they wouldnt be called assassins then, right?

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judging by how you thought positioning is somehow "static", i'd say it does. or at least, to you.

fail judgments?

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so you admit they have better mobility than warriors since they do have shadowsteps. current shadowsteps are weak compared to the overpowered ones that come before, but they are no means inconsequential. well, maybe to you. for the rest of us, we can easily exploit the advantages that they still give us.

i never said asns had superior mobility than wars.
wars have superior mobility than sins.
even you admitted it.

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Originally Posted by moriz

gvg right now does not need another rogue-style character that is highly mobile. warriors and rangers have that covered between them.

yes you can exploit the shadowstepping advantages but NOT by using an ASN.
all asn shadowsteps are abused by other professions. (eg. blood spike?)
hence why all asn shadowsteps move to asns only. <- repeated for 1000x time, dont know when this will get through to your head.

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as for my supposed "bias" against assassins... please note that i played an assassin way before you started playing GW. i wrote the original guide on them way back in '06, and have played them quite extensively in EVERY arena, gvg included. next to my ranger, assassin is my most often played profession. i know the ins and outs of everything you can think of for assassins, as well as a few things that you obviously don't know. you cannot claim any bias on my part. indeed, it should be said that you are heavily biased FOR assassins beyond reason.

how is it possible that you played a sin before me when i started playing gw right at the release of factions? and the sin has became my main ever since?

it may seem like im bias FOR asns to people with simple minds, but if you took a look at the OP's goal in this thread, its to clearly revive assassins back into metas.

and if you actually saw the comparison i have with wars vs sins. youll see that im comparing them equally.

the bias is you. because just from what you've said ''sins should be removed from high end pvp, period''. that alone is a testament to this fact.
from that moment on, you are no longer taken seriously as for any comments on asn debates. you want them out, you havent even contributed any ideas on how to bring them back. the bias is you. so dont pull that bullshit saying your main character is your sin.

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with all my experience with assassins, here's what will happen if i suddenly have a 5 second dash: i'll become mostly invincible. a 5 second dash will allow me to run away from almost any situation, chase down any target, and out-position almost any profession in a straight-up fight. with a 5 second dash, i'll be able to simutaneously combo on a target while quarterstepping away from another target chasing me, without slowing down my combo. it would take around four different players to keep me around long enough to kill me, even with a snare. a 5 second dash will allow me to run at mostly 100% even with a snare.

funny after all these years of playing gw, you dont know what snaring is.
an asns is meant to be swift, but not swift for only a few seconds and getting out ran by wars afterwards.
maybe after a buff to dash for ASNS ONLY, well actually see a true asn that fits its name.

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needless to say, a 5 second dash would make an assassin played by anyone of my caliber to be grossly overpowered, and i'm hardly a worldclass player. maybe it would allow YOU to be competitive for once, but game balance shouldn't have to make up for your lacking.

im sure you sin is not your 2nd main, all you've been saying is to ''remove sins completely'', is that what a sin player would say? i think not.
lol enough with your bullshit. your main is a r/mo, you dont want to compete with sins to able to be in the meta. judging from your posts, your goal is to convince sins to be removed from metas. you have no idea on how to bring them back in. im pretty sure your caliber is specializes capping shrines in AB, so dont brag about your so called expertise in pvp, it means jack crap to me.

upier · May 19, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

WTF is going on (here?)

maxxfury · May 19, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

WTF is going on (here?)

i believe a rather epic trolling session!

of ninja proportions!

And icwutudid!