Curse

jayebyrd00 · Jun 17, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

The title of this thread was not ment to be an insult to the games knowledge of the veteran players. Rather it was ment to attract the attention of those who work hard to give good advice to new players. Though I have been playing Guild Wars for over 9 months now, I have just recently started reaserching different builds and looking for advice for different proffesions. I have learned a lot....mostly I learned at how little I knew. That being said, I would like to part some advice to these great advisors.
All to often I see a thread titled "Guide to playing (X)". Yet the thread rapidly turns into veteran players arguing over each others post. The advice may be sound advice but a new player such as myself gets lost easily in the abbreaveations and nomenclatures used. Plus often the advice seems to be more directed towards more advanced players wishing to tweak thier skills than to actual "New Players"
Please keep in mind new players don't know all the abbreavations and nomenclature used in GW's. Also please keep in mind that a lot of skills disscused are not available to New players. Nothing is more frustrating than to find a reccomended skill or build and find it's not yet accessable, nor will be for a while. New players will often buy only one campaign to try out to see if they wish to continue buying the rest. Just look back at when you were a new player and gear your advice to what you wanted to learn then.
I want to end this post by saying i think this is a great site for learning how to play GW. I hope iI have not offended anybody and that everybody takes this advice from a noob in the spirit it was given. Thank You

aoeclald · Jun 17, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

When I first started playing, I did not even know about Guru or pvxwiki at the time, and I had only Factions and Prophecies campaigns. These were the only two out at the time. I think Guru and pvxwiki are more directed at some more experienced players or those who have a better understanding than newbies. The best way to get help in this game, I believe, is to join a guild who supports what you want to do and then get to know some of the better members of said guild.

The first time I got help was from a person who purchased my first set of armor for my necromancer and also led me through my first Deep run and elite mission. I don't think I will forget them, but this is just an example to show that real, generous people are out there even if its just advice over free armor, for example =P

If you need help with anything, feel free to whisper me in-game. My main character's name is listed to the left (Salem Elementalis).

dtru89 · Jun 17, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

pvxwiki has campagin specific builds.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 17, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayebyrd00

I have learned a lot....mostly I learned at how little I knew.

I like the sound of you. It seems like you have exactly the right attitude to become a good player.

One of the things that frustrates me to no end, mostly in PvE and RA is the amount of players who think their build is awesome, when in reality it is terrible. They are unwilling to listen to your factual (not subjective) reasoning as to why it is bad. Most of the time it is virtually impossible to get them to actually realise how bad their builds are due to their lack of knowledge and an ironic consequence of their lack of knowledge is that they think they have A LOT of knowledge (lolol).

For example the other day in RA this guy was talking in local chat about how Warrior/Monks were very good. I pm'ed him telling him that they were garbage and why so. I play Warrior primarily and have done in Top 100 GvG (albeit not consistently) and so I know what i'm talking about. However because I was on a Ranger at the time he simply responded with "ive played since beta kid, you dont know enough about warriors, putting scourage healing on the monk wins games, learn to play".

His attitude his such that he will never improve, as he is unwilling to accept other peoples advice and improve. I have no doubt that he has been playing since beta, which was over 4 years ago and because of his attitude I doubt he has improved at all since then.

I know it's just a game but ignorant comments and people like those infuriate me...

Archress Shayleigh · Jun 17, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Well, i remember when i first got GW. Proph only. Anyway, there are campaign specific builds in
www.pvxwiki.com

Warvic · Jun 17, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

you are right, guides for beginners should be easyer to understand. but I don't see why noobs need help. I played trough whole propecies as a wammo. (with mending) but I had alot of fun doing it. after 3.5 years of playing i started to look at pvxwiki and guru. and it makes thigns easyer for sure, but not more fun

Pistachio · Jun 17, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayebyrd00

... Please keep in mind new players don't know all the abbreavations and nomenclature used in GW's. ...

I've been playing since release and honestly some of the posts I see here still confuse me. I have to take a minute when someone says they used "ToH at the UP to beat a RR Mob with a PUG." I usually get it if I take a minute, but often I just loose any interest in deciphering it all.

jayebyrd00 · Jun 17, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistachio

I've been playing since release and honestly some of the posts I see here still confuse me. I have to take a minute when someone says they used "ToH at the UP to beat a RR Mob with a PUG." I usually get it if I take a minute, but often I just loose any interest in deciphering it all.

Yessss, One of my points exactly, Now I do understand with all the skills and such it is easier to abbreviate. But a noob isn't any where close to HM or FoW to some of the places that get abreviated. RA and TA.....HUH????
Yes it is our responcibility to learn the nomenclature of the game. If the advice given to us is over our head, we do lose intrest. Don't talk down to us, talk to us at our own level. But don't lose interest in teaching us.

stanzhao · Jun 17, 2009, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

I like the sound of you. It seems like you have exactly the right attitude to become a good player.

One of the things that frustrates me to no end, mostly in PvE and RA is the amount of players who think their build is awesome, when in reality it is terrible. They are unwilling to listen to your factual (not subjective) reasoning as to why it is bad. Most of the time it is virtually impossible to get them to actually realise how bad their builds are due to their lack of knowledge and an ironic consequence of their lack of knowledge is that they think they have A LOT of knowledge (lolol).

For example the other day in RA this guy was talking in local chat about how Warrior/Monks were very good. I pm'ed him telling him that they were garbage and why so. I play Warrior primarily and have done in Top 100 GvG (albeit not consistently) and so I know what i'm talking about. However because I was on a Ranger at the time he simply responded with "ive played since beta kid, you dont know enough about warriors, putting scourage healing on the monk wins games, learn to play".

His attitude his such that he will never improve, as he is unwilling to accept other peoples advice and improve. I have no doubt that he has been playing since beta, which was over 4 years ago and because of his attitude I doubt he has improved at all since then.

I know it's just a game but ignorant comments and people like those infuriate me...

i completely understand where your coming from. but dont forget that PvE is subjective. people like the ones you mentioned above are clearly bad at the game. but why havent they quit playing if they are so bad? because i imagine pve allows them to feel good.

and yes, the first steps to becoming a better player is understanding how little you know, and how much you need to learn. people like the OP are players that i have a lot of time for, and often are people that i end up helping doing different things.

and while i do love farming faction in RA, i wont ever call someone a nub, or a douche for having a bad build. just ask them why they use that build. if they give some spiel about it being uber and it kills nubs and i can see that he's a warrior with WoH i just dont reply.

heroes and hench dont rage or shout at players, or tell them they suck... although, sometimes i feel dunkoro looking at me with those /sigh eyes when we get party wiped... so unless players actually want to learn and get better, they never will. because pve, and now overpowered pve skills, allows bad players to succeed.

Spiritz · Jun 17, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

you are right, guides for beginners should be easyer to understand. but I don't see why noobs need help. I played trough whole propecies as a wammo. (with mending) but I had alot of fun doing it. after 3.5 years of playing i started to look at pvxwiki and guru. and it makes thigns easyer for sure, but not more fun

Noobs need help - and to state they dont is idiotic.
Players are so fast to complain when a newbie asks questions or fails to understand syndergy of a build.How is this newbie to learn and understand if ppl like you deny them help ?
Who knows - this 'noob' with guidance may have one day gone into uwsc team with you , or even one day may help you with some other quest.
Ppl complain theres no decent players doing Doa etc and you wonder why ?

In my alliance we welcome newbies and make them feel like players who are enjoying gw and also learning in the process - regardless of their gw experiance.We help them become better stronger players which in turn makes our members stronger/better when we go in teams and do missions etc.
If you were a 'noob' then we`d help with advice etc as it seems when you started you had a bad start in gw and have had that grudge ever since - is it "why help them when i had no help myself".

@jayebyrd00 - Good on you for standing up and making one big valid point and i hope others take notice of it and decide to help 'noobs' rather than shun and shame them.

jayebyrd00 · Jun 17, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

you are right, guides for beginners should be easyer to understand. but I don't see why noobs need help. I played trough whole propecies as a wammo. (with mending) but I had alot of fun doing it. after 3.5 years of playing i started to look at pvxwiki and guru. and it makes thigns easyer for sure, but not more fun

I can understand your point wholeheartedly. I often take my ramger out with two ranger heroes, Jin and Margrid. One doles out several conditions, the other interupt after interupt. I know its not the most effient team, but man is it fun watching monsters rack up conditions on thier health bars and watching skill after skill getting interupted. Some of my fellow guildies enjoy it also. Yet, I put my girls away and bring out who is needed when things get a little more serious.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 17, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

You are correct, most veteran's perfer to argue, or post on build and forget about it. However, I remember being a noobie, and not even know what the fruck to do in the game, and I made it only so far and quit for 6 months or so. Now that I know what the hell I'm doing, I like to share my advice. When I post builds, I try to find the best suited skill(s)
(elites included) that newer players can get. However, you may be able to purchase a tome, but that may be a little expensive for newer players. Btw, if you wan't to get ahead of the game, and make a lot of money, ONLY BUY THE ESSENTIALS!!! don't buy anything you don't need, or you'll have a hard time getting along :P

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 17, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

i completely understand where your coming from. but dont forget that PvE is subjective. people like the ones you mentioned above are clearly bad at the game. but why havent they quit playing if they are so bad? because i imagine pve allows them to feel good.

PvE isn't subjective either. The only way it differs is that you can get away with running bad builds. They're still bad, but you can still complete missions. This doesn't make it subjective, it just makes it easy.

stanzhao · Jun 18, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

PvE isn't subjective either. The only way it differs is that you can get away with running bad builds. They're still bad, but you can still complete missions. This doesn't make it subjective, it just makes it easy.

but isnt that the point. in PvP you need to be good to win. so you base your builds on statistics and facts that prove your build is better than another, or counters it well etc.

with pve none of this is relevant. as long as you have fun while doing it, it doesnt matter. i know it doesnt mean your the best at it, but thats not the point of pve.

which i why pugging brings out the worst in people

jayebyrd00 · Jun 18, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I thankyou all who have posted replies supportive of my views. I was pleasantly surprised at the lack of flamming. Hope this has opened the eyes of those who truly wish to help and just not show off their knowledge. please close?

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 18, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

but isnt that the point. in PvP you need to be good to win. so you base your builds on statistics and facts that prove your build is better than another, or counters it well etc.

with pve none of this is relevant. as long as you have fun while doing it, it doesnt matter. i know it doesnt mean your the best at it, but thats not the point of pve.

which i why pugging brings out the worst in people

My original point was in terms of being good and knowledgable though, not in terms of "just getting by".

Under these original terms, PvE isn't subjective.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 27, 2009, 05:01 AM // 05:01

if you want to learn pve just play the game. you'll get by, probably join a small guild run by someone slightly more experienced than you (whom you will, at the time, think is the master of guild wars) who will teach you what he knows and you'll go off exploring and learning together.

eventually you'll realize the guy you're with sucks; he's pretty much peaked out on the "how good i'll be at guild wars" graph. plus, he was racist: not just the normal type of racist person who'll hang out with you if you're not his least favorite ethnicity, but the type of racist person who is always talking about how he thinks black people are the problem with his community even though you've tried to hint to him how ridiculously stupid he sounds every time he gets in what you've come to call his "ultimate bigotry mode". so anyway, after realizing that the retarded bigot leader of your two man guild is terrible at guild wars you'll leave the guild (don't worry, he'll log on about twice within the next year and come ask you for gold so he can use this leet new build he just made up but eventually you'll tell him how much of a douche he is and youll never hear from him again)

then you'll join one of those big guilds that farms faction or one that does speed clears every night and thinks calling it PWNZILLA is cool. you'll soon have had enough of that and realize what a bunch of 12-year-old (physically or mentally, either way) douchers you're in a guild with and leave.

at this point you'll realize you just left what some would call a high-end pve guild. after laughing at how pathetic pve is you'll say "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it, i'm experienced enough to play competitively now" and you'll finally start doing pvp.

only then should you be allowed to talk on forums. posting and arguing over pve bullshit is only useful if you're trolling.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 27, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

if you want to learn pve just play the game. you'll get by, probably join a small guild run by someone slightly more experienced than you (whom you will, at the time, think is the master of guild wars) who will teach you what he knows and you'll go off exploring and learning together.

eventually you'll realize the guy you're with sucks; he's pretty much peaked out on the "how good i'll be at guild wars" graph. plus, he was racist: not just the normal type of racist person who'll hang out with you if you're not his least favorite ethnicity, but the type of racist person who is always talking about how he thinks black people are the problem with his community even though you've tried to hint to him how ridiculously stupid he sounds every time he gets in what you've come to call his "ultimate bigotry mode". so anyway, after realizing that the retarded bigot leader of your two man guild is terrible at guild wars you'll leave the guild (don't worry, he'll log on about twice within the next year and come ask you for gold so he can use this leet new build he just made up but eventually you'll tell him how much of a douche he is and youll never hear from him again)

then you'll join one of those big guilds that farms faction or one that does speed clears every night and thinks calling it PWNZILLA is cool. you'll soon have had enough of that and realize what a bunch of 12-year-old (physically or mentally, either way) douchers you're in a guild with and leave.

at this point you'll realize you just left what some would call a high-end pve guild. after laughing at how pathetic pve is you'll say "RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it, i'm experienced enough to play competitively now" and you'll finally start doing pvp.

only then should you be allowed to talk on forums. posting and arguing over pve bullshit is only useful if you're trolling.

THIS X 100

On topic it's pretty easy(maybe a month or two) to get decent at a game, you just need to be willing to learn and ask advice - but at the same time make sure you understand what people tell you rather than follow it mindlessly.

To be good however you need to do all that and just have years of experience knowing exactly what to do and be able to automate things which most people can't even do. This will allow you to focus on the things which really matter (conserving energy/dodging bulls/watching the mesmer).

Thats just how I see it.

byteme! · Jun 27, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

then you'll join one of those big guilds that farms faction or one that does speed clears every night and thinks calling it PWNZILLA is cool.

I was in a guild and every night I log on some one would say PWNZILLA. "Lets go [area name] PWNZILLA" or something to that extent. I thought it was freakin hilarious and weird. I left a short awhile after. Good guild but I got the impression some of them were obnoxious.

MagmaRed · Jun 27, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Most of it is because although some of the advise is given by people who are experts, they are experts at Guild Wars, not education. They forget that the people they are trying to teach do not know what they are telling them. Although it takes a little longer, it isn't hard to teach 2 things at once for those new people. You mentioned abbreviations and nomenclature causing problems. Well, this can be fixed while teaching about a mission/build. For example:

Someone wants help with completing the mission Thunderhead Keep. They are playing a Monk, and having trouble keeping the team alive. So the response is to use skills like PS, WoH, SB, and SoA. Worse, the response never mentions Thunderhead Keep, but instead THK.

Now, someone may be able to figure out what THK is, but is it hard to type out Thunderhead Keep(THK)? And the abbreviations for the skills will fly over most new players heads. SB could be Spirit Bond or Spell Breaker, or a few other possibles, and the others are still sitting their unknown. So they could easily type out:

Protective Spirit(PS), Spirit Bond(SB), Word of Healing(WoH), and Shield of Absorption(SoA). This would help the person learn about some skills that may be helpful, but also educate them on what the common abbreviations for many things are.