Curse

HigherMinion · Feb 08, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

As if you use glyph on your human ER...

I see ER healer and another healer. So a ER healer is better than 2 N/Mo or you trying to say a E/Mo+Healer hench is better than 2 N/Mo.

From someone that has been a "true paladin" of ER E/Mo on these forums and has loads of experience with h/h.

As you know minion, my experience is mostly 2 players+6 heroes at least in the last 2 years or so, so my view can be a bit skewed by that.

So lets get my ER bar under scrutiny:

ER, AoR, Infuse, Dkiss, PS, SB, SG, optional like vital blessing or your favorite Vigorous Spirit.

Yes, I am exactly saying that one ER hero is better than two monks or necros.

Ok, so with the build, the only thing you really need to change is Dkiss. It completely changes the way they think about Infuse. Don't give them the option not to use Infuse.

the only maintainment spell I used on mine was Life Attunment, only maintained on himself. RoF is good, too. Especially if it doesn't cast ER instantly, RoF is cheap to spam for an ele with 100~ energy.

You're pretty much got it, though. Alot of people like to put Convert Hexes, but I don't bother.

maxxfury · Feb 08, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Discordway on PvX wiki is pretty bad as well.

I wouldnt say 'bad' but it is very heavily biased towards big defence+heals for the less able (or casual )players, so they die less

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03

My ER protter uses ER, Aura of Restoration, Aegis, PS, SB, RoF, Shield Guardian, Infuse. SoA is retarded o.o

Reversal of fortune is better in HM than in NM because enemies usually hit for a lot. and because you're negating it, you're actually healing twice .

@Higher Minion, What is the purpose of having life attunement maintained on the ER Protter ? So that he gains more health per heal ? o.o

HigherMinion · Feb 09, 2010, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

My ER protter uses ER, Aura of Restoration, Aegis, PS, SB, RoF, Shield Guardian, Infuse. SoA is retarded o.o

Reversal of fortune is better in HM than in NM because enemies usually hit for a lot. and because you're negating it, you're actually healing twice .

@Higher Minion, What is the purpose of having life attunement maintained on the ER Protter ? So that he gains more health per heal ? o.o

Life Attunment is there, yes, for Vekk to maintain his health while Infusing. And also it helps if he's targeted. You *coul* maintain this on your other healer, too. Or someone as squishy.

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Oh yeah .. i usually don't think that deep lol . maintaining enchantments is never really something i like to do . i really hate micro-ing . >.>

MasterSasori · Feb 09, 2010, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Oh yeah .. i usually don't think that deep lol . maintaining enchantments is never really something i like to do . i really hate micro-ing . >.>

If you cast the skill on a hero and disable it, will they stop maintaining the enchantment? I've been wondering about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I wouldnt say 'bad' but it is very heavily biased towards big defence+heals for the less able (or casual )players, so they die less

Discordway isn't really bad but I don't like the one I see on PvX wiki. The one with shambling horrors and are very similar to each one.

Improvavel · Feb 09, 2010, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

If you cast the skill on a hero and disable it, will they stop maintaining the enchantment? I've been wondering about that.

No.

Quote:

Discordway isn't really bad but I don't like the one I see on PvX wiki. The one with shambling horrors and are very similar to each one.

The wiki ones have too much healing and focus too much on killing with discord, although for pure h/h I guess discord is good killing that can't really be countered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Yes, I am exactly saying that one ER hero is better than two monks or necros.

On the other hand you still have 2 backline bars. Considering that Necros can manage their energy pretty ok (some people keep dropping SolS for space) and since that ER Ele won't cast PS+SB on all the party but rather on the ones being attacked, 2 Necros 1 with PS 1 with SB will accomplish the same.

And I still value Aegis and SoA very high.

Quote:

Ok, so with the build, the only thing you really need to change is Dkiss. It completely changes the way they think about Infuse. Don't give them the option not to use Infuse.

Actually DKiss was added there due to the fact they don't cast Infuse often enough. And when u run orders it isn't a bad skill by itself-

Quote:

You're pretty much got it, though. Alot of people like to put Convert Hexes, but I don't bother.

This is a criticism I have on ER bars. I know that some people in here think that Hex removal is useless in HM because they just keep spamming hexes.

I think that actually happens because people only slot a skill or 2 or play with caster teams which are much less affected by hexes.

Yesterday on a Fow HM going, 2 players + 6 heroes, with 2 N/Mo both with cure hex and spotless mind supported by Empathic removal and smite hex from an orders necro, were able to keep the party members clear of SS, Empathy and Blurred vision.

HigherMinion · Feb 09, 2010, 08:14 PM // 20:14

In our teams, we often tend to run a seperate character who's job is specific to cleaning, and maintains SoH perfectly on 5~players.

1.Signet Of Removal.
2. Power Drain
3.Leech Signet
4.Draw Conditions.
5.Hex Eater Signet.
6.Ether Signet.
7.Mantra of Inscriptions
8. Strength of Honour.

It seems like a useless slot; and you think you could just mix the hex removal on your monks. But in the teams we run, with many melee characters, SoH deals alot of damage, and they will rarely be blinded for more than a second. The recharge on SoR is amazing.

Improvavel · Feb 09, 2010, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

In our teams, we often tend to run a seperate character who's job is specific to cleaning, and maintains SoH perfectly on 5~players.

1.Signet Of Removal.
2. Power Drain
3.Leech Signet
4.Draw Conditions.
5.Hex Eater Signet.
6.Ether Signet.
7.Mantra of Inscriptions
8. Strength of Honour.

It seems like a useless slot; and you think you could just mix the hex removal on your monks. But in the teams we run, with many melee characters, SoH deals alot of damage, and they will rarely be blinded for more than a second. The recharge on SoR is amazing.

Yeah but an order with SoH does even more damage.

I do generally slot hex eater signet on para heroes if I have them (alongside with CoF).

MasterSasori · Feb 10, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

On the other hand you still have 2 backline bars. Considering that Necros can manage their energy pretty ok (some people keep dropping SolS for space) and since that ER Ele won't cast PS+SB on all the party but rather on the ones being attacked, 2 Necros 1 with PS 1 with SB will accomplish the same.

And I still value Aegis and SoA very high.

I don't find SoA very useful in PvE if it's not on a human. Heroes still can't prot well so ER solves that problem by spamming it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Yesterday on a Fow HM going, 2 players + 6 heroes, with 2 N/Mo both with cure hex and spotless mind supported by Empathic removal and smite hex from an orders necro, were able to keep the party members clear of SS, Empathy and Blurred vision.

Likewise if you run a dedicated cleaner as minion stated, you can save the slots for additional offense. That works better than removing a hex here and there.

There are only a few hexes that present a real problem. Empathy, SS, and to a degree, Blurred causes problems so hex removal is justified but it would just be easier to have a quick offense and rid yourself of the hex casters first with AP-MoP and the sort.

Improvavel · Feb 10, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I don't find SoA very useful in PvE if it's not on a human. Heroes still can't prot well so ER solves that problem by spamming it.

Heroes can prot - they just can't pre-prot (but you can micro it). ER won't solve that because they will only prot after someone is being hit (they aren't like humans that will just happy spam on everyone) - again, N/Mo have quite a decent energy gain.

Quote:

Likewise if you run a dedicated cleaner as minion stated, you can save the slots for additional offense. That works better than removing a hex here and there.

So it is better running a dedicated cleaner, a ER and a backup healer over 2 N/Mo with cure hex and spotless mind + an order with hex/condition removal and maybe add a skill on some random dude?

I don't agree and don't see any skill saving advantage.

Quote:

There are only a few hexes that present a real problem. Empathy, SS, and to a degree, Blurred causes problems so hex removal is justified but it would just be easier to have a quick offense and rid yourself of the hex casters first with AP-MoP and the sort.

That would be true if you were sacrificing offense by bringing the hex removal - you aren't unless you are running a dedicated cleaner...