Curse

Konker2020 · Dec 20, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

So, My guildies and I are all starting new characters (a new fully loaded account for myself, so they decided to join in), but that's irrelevant. Not paying any attention to what we have and what we don't have... just assume that we have access to everything and basically, we will eventually be able to fill the final build for testing. The majority of the group is starting out as physicals but we want to consider openings for heroes as well as a last resort, so I want to try to make the builds aside from the physicals to be functional with heroes as well.

To start, me and a guildie are both starting warriors, we figure we go Endurance scythe warrior variants. So far I figure the following:

12 Strength
12 Scythe

Power Attack
Protector's Strike
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
{}
{}
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance

The optionals would most likely be AoHM and an Ebon Ward each.

We would have Zealous Scythes of Enchanting with +15% damage while enchanted. Full Survivor with +1 Strength, Sup Vigor and 3 Vitae.

The other 2 physicals are most likely going to be Assassin's, we aren't sure whether or not they will be Scythe or Dagger Sins (or maybe lax on the direct physical and crit disrupters with bows [very effective but not sure if it will work as well as damage]).

With the other 4 characters, we aren't really sure what we want to do with. We have considered so many options that we aren't sure whats best.

With the semi-recent AI update, I have heard that heroes can semi-efficiently operate Infuse, is this true or are they as terrible as always?

Basically, we considered an Orders D or N. Paragon shout buffers, ER healer/protter/buffer, various healers etc. but aren't really sure what would be best. I have looked at the PvX physical team build, but I feel that it may be somewhat outdated and can be made much better.

Sorry for the all over the place format of this, on my way out the door to work, any help is appreciated.

Revelations · Dec 20, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

IMO. Aware that monk bar is unusual, it's due to 100% SY uptime. Para is a little clunky, and wars have to be not retarded with BoA and SY. Rit can keep SoH up on at least 3 of those frontline, drop smite hex for essence strike if you want it on all 4.

zelgadissan · Dec 21, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Aura of Holy Might negates orders and Mark of Pain since it converts your weapon to holy damage, so one of those two has to go. Personally unless I was fighting undead I'd rather have the orders, and if you're making a physical oriented team without Mark of Pain then you're leaving out one of the strongest skills you can bring.

If you're running two warriors and two assassins, the other four spots in my book would be:
N/A Mark of Pain with Assassin's Promise
N/Mo Orders bitch with Strength of Honor
Rt/X Signet of Spirits/Spirit Siphon healer
Mo/X or E/Mo healer/infuser

Konker2020 · Dec 21, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

I completely forgot about AoHM changing damage to Holy (I feel dumb, because that was one of my favorite parts about it when fighting undead, then again I haven't played in about 4 months).

@Revelations, an IAS isn't really needed on the Warriors when using Protector's Strike, Eremite's Attack and Mystic Sweep due to the short cast times. And I find Asuran Scan to be conditional due to the fact that it only targets 1 enemy, mind you I had considered using it and really do love the skill. "There's nothing to fear!" would have to be ruled out on the Para as it would be run on a hero, so it kind of kills the bar.

After further consideration, we are going with 2 Wars and 2 Sins for the physicals. The other 4 could really be anything to benefit the 4 physicals, though would need to be able to function on hero bars as well (or with close variants). We had considered a Nec with orders and some physical buff hexes AKA Barbs, MoP, etc. Maybe a Para with some physical support and healing AKA Finale of Restoration. Someone that can maintain SoH on at least 2 physicals at all times, so probably a Monk or Ele. And a healer of some sort. The healer will most likely be an Ele Infuser and if so will be player run and not a hero. So similar to your suggestion @zelgadissan. When I get a first run of builds together I'll post them.

Konker2020 · Dec 21, 2009, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Decided to do them up real quick while I had time, so here they are.

2x W/D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Scythe Mastery = 12

{optional}/Power Attack
Protector's Strike
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
{optional}/Asuran Scan
{optional}/Ebon Ward/IAS/"For Great Justice!"
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance

2x A/D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Strikes = 12+1+1
Scythe Mastery = 12

{optional}/Reaper's Sweep/Wounding Strike
Malicious Strike
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
{optional}/Asuran Scan
Critical Agility
Critical Defenses
Way of the Master

N/A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deadly Arts = 10
Soul Reaping = 8+1+1
Curses = 12

Assassin's Promise
Barbs
Mark of Pain
Rigor Mortis
{optional}/Enfeebling Blood
{optional}/Weaken Armor
{optional}/Rip Enchantment
{optional}/Rez/Signet of Lost Souls if energy is a problem

N/Mo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Death Magic = 10+1+3
Blood Magic = 8
Soul Reaping = 8
Smiting Prayers = 10

Aura of the Lich
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Masochism
Dark Fury
Order of Pain
Strength of Honor
{optional}/Rez/Signet of Lost Souls if energy is a problem

Rt/Mo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Channeling Magic = 12+1+3
Restoration Magic = 10+2
Spawning Power = 8
Protection Prayers = 2

Signet of Spirits
Siphon Spirit
Splinter Weapon
Life
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Weapon of Warding
Rebirth

E/Mo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Energy Storage = 12+1+1
Healing Prayers = 10
Protection Prayers = 8

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Glyph of Swiftness
Infuse Health
{optional}/Great Dwarf Weapon
{optional}
{optional}/Protective Bond
Rebirth

Lots of optionals, I know. Any more ideas based on that?

Revelations · Dec 21, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Aura of Holy Might negates orders and Mark of Pain since it converts your weapon to holy damage, so one of those two has to go. Personally unless I was fighting undead I'd rather have the orders, and if you're making a physical oriented team without Mark of Pain then you're leaving out one of the strongest skills you can bring.

The AoHM/Orders thing is what you get for throwing together a couple bars in a minute or two after a good 30 hours with no sleep

. Should have picked up on that.

Mark of pain is definitely a nice addition, something else I managed to miss in my sleep deprived state. Drop the para in my above build for something like AP/MoP/Meekness/Foul Feast/Whatever.

@Konker - a couple things regarding your proposed build.

If you're going to utilize mark of pain then you need Erf Shakur. Otherwise things are going to scatter and you won't blow them up as fast with scythes/MoP. It's also an amazing extra layer of defense should you need it with SY. Dual Wounding strike is pretty redundant in any case, so there really isn't much reason to not run Erf Shakur.

IAS still affects fast activation skills IIRC, since a WE bar has plenty of room it's still a strong choice. The dwarven IAS/IMS is also a decent choice since you'll have an extra PvE slot open. Alternatively frenzy is a brave and strong choice also.

Running a 14 or 15 channeling guy without ARage is heresy. I wouldn't really bother running resto on the guy though. This guy is perfect for SoH due to amazing attributes and energy management. I'm not a fan of running orders and smites on the same guy. Pretty energy intensive, and it puts too much focus on them. Your bar also has minions. Gonna have a horrible attribute spread, and trying to do too much on one bar. I also seriously doubt you need the minions - they're just going to get in the way of you balling stuff up for Erf Shakur.

The advantage of an Ether Renewal backline is the massive capacity he has for throwing out large prots in addition to massive infuses. Dual SY backed by fury should pretty much make large prots utterly redundant, other than perhaps prot spirit. For this reason I would elect to run a normal monk, as your ele is basically just a glorified HB monk in a physical setup. If you do want to run an ER ele, heal party spam to mop up the small amount of damage that gets through SY is a much better bet. The more I think about a heal party bot the better I see it being. It's basically a more efficient version of the monk bar I threw together above.

Crit defenses is probably overkill on those assassins. I probably wouldn't bother with it in most areas, unless you know there's going to be a lot of conditions or KDs from physical sources ahead of time.

I don't think you need all four of those attack skills on those warriors, an extra utility spot wouldn't go astray.

I honestly don't think you need more of a backline than the Monk or ER guy. The resto on that rit is IMO just additional space you're not packing more domage into. Most of the time when I roll with SY and Erf Shakur the main source of damage to my team is my own orders guy. AoR on my above bar mops most of that up, so you really only need a chunk of party healing and a bit of targeted healing. Monking for SY is stupid easy.

GL with it anyways.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall.

Konker2020 · Dec 21, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Ok, based on the advice given, I have made the builds more finite, here are the current ones:

W/D x2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Scythe Mastery = 12

Power Attack
Protector's Strike
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Asuran Scan
{optional}
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance

Zealous Scythe of Enchanting (Dmg+15%/enchanted)
Strength+1, HP+50, 3x HP+10
Full Survivor

W/x
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Hammer Mastery = 12

Earth Shaker
Crude Swing
Whirlwind Attack
{optional}
Enraging Charge
Flail
Rush
"For Great Justice!"

[x] Hammer of Fortitude (Dmg+15%/stance)
Strength+1, HP+50, Hammer Mastery+2, 2x HP+10
KD+1, 4x Survivor

A/D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Strikes = 12+1+1
Scythe Mastery = 12

Wounding Strike
Malicious Strike
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Asuran Scan
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Critical Agility
Way of the Master

Zealous Scythe of Enchanting (Dmg+15%/enchanted)
Critical Strikes+1, HP+50, 3x HP+10
Full Survivor

N/A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deadly Arts = 8
Soul Reaping = 10
Curses = 12+1+1

Assassin's Promise
Barbs
Mark of Pain
Rigor Mortis
Enfeebling Blood
Weaken Armor
Meekness
Rip Enchantment

20/20, HP+60 Curses Staff
Curses+1, HP+50, 3x HP+10
Full Survivor

Rt/Mo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spawning Power = 8+2
Channeling Magic = 12+1+3
Smiting Prayers = 10

Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Spirit Siphon
Ancestor's Rage
Splinter Weapon
Castigation Signet
Smite Hex
Strength of Honor

20/20, HP+60 Channeling Magic Staff
Spawning Power+2, Channeling Magic+3, HP+50, 2x HP+10
Full Survivor

E/N
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Energy Storage = 12+1+1
Blood Magic = 12

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Dark Fury
Order of Pain
Great Dwarf Weapon
Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom
Mark of Fury
Strip Enchantment

20/20, HP+60 Blood Magic Staff
Energy Storage+1, HP+50, 3x HP+10
Full Survivor

E/Mo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Energy Storage = 12+1+1
Healing Prayers = 10
Protection Prayers = 8

Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration
Heal Party
Infuse Health
{optional}
{optional}
Protective Spirit
Rebirth

20/20, HP+60 Healing Prayers Staff
Energy Storage+1, HP+50, 3x HP+10
Full Survivor

I left Power Attack on the Warriors simply because I couldn't find something that would better replace it, I had considered "FGJ!" but Dark Fury and Mark of Fury more than make up for it. The optionals on the Warriors would probably be an IAS/IMS, possibly Drunken Master.

Any other suggestions as to how to make this better? Or is anyone willing to try testing this? I won't be able to for about another week...

Thanks for all of the help so far.

The Riven · Dec 21, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Reading through this i decided to make a teambuild myself, again based around MoP and phys though with an imba in as its my main. after id saved it i realised it was severely lacking when it came to hex and condition removal.

Came back here to see how you had overcome it and well.. you hadn't.

Just a thought but blind and anti shout skills can ruin any frontline in a phys team.

Revelations · Dec 22, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Both that ele and the necro have plenty of space for foul feast should it be needed. The rit can also run an unspecced MBaS for major condition removal. I would recommend running one copy of feast for most of the game, just to clean up anything nasty that should be floating around.

The E/Mo and the Rt/Mo have plenty of space for hex removal also, should it be needed. I tend not to run hex removals for general PvE, unless a given zone I'll be in demands it. If this is the case then convert on the ele and smite/remove on the rit should be enough for most cases.

Konker2020 · Dec 22, 2009, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Both that ele and the necro have plenty of space for foul feast should it be needed. The rit can also run an unspecced MBaS for major condition removal. I would recommend running one copy of feast for most of the game, just to clean up anything nasty that should be floating around.

The E/Mo and the Rt/Mo have plenty of space for hex removal also, should it be needed. I tend not to run hex removals for general PvE, unless a given zone I'll be in demands it. If this is the case then convert on the ele and smite/remove on the rit should be enough for most cases.

@Riven, this is why I hadn't put a lot of hex/condition removal in, there is space for it, but isn't always needed... I know this game pretty much like the back of my hand now, so I know where I will be facing certain conditions/hexes and determine when to slot them in, but I will post another version with some condition removal if nothing else, I had completely forgotten about FF which is why it isn't on the necro.

Revelations · Dec 22, 2009, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Not particularly related to the build, but +AL insignias are generally more useful than survivors. Though I would be willing to negotiate that point with SY present I would probably still run +armor mods wherever possible instead of +health. The only time +health is really going to be of benefit in PvE is when you're so pressured that you're probably going to wipe anyway.

Slightly more on topic, mindbender makes a strong optional for your Heal Party bot if he's played by a human, which he probably should be. The SoS rit doesn't really need that much in spawning power, 3 leftovers plus a minor rune should be enough. Splinter lasts plenty long enough without it, and a bit extra health on your spirits isn't really going to change anything. You don't get much additional damage out of SoH for it, but I prefer the aggressive approach. Really a matter of opinion there though.

Drunken master is a pretty strong choice for the optional spot on those warriors. Alternatively you could drop an attack skill and throw in a seperate IAS/IMS, perhaps frenzy/rush if you're brave. Most of that bar is pretty optional really.