Curse

jaximus · Oct 19, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

you argue against an elite because of overpowered pve skills. then you say you have 200 points to spend on the rest of your skills. why would you play a mesmer if you werent going to devote points to fast casting? thats foolish. then you say you can use skills instead of spells. last i checked mesmers were spell casters... if you are gonna argue to use skills, use a ranger with expertise. then youre argument for using skills doesnt work cuz then you are no longer a mesmer. so youre saying because of brawling headbutt- magehunter, dev hammer, backbreaker, and shove are bad elites for pve? so you are in favor of using your pve only skills but not essences of celerity? theres your recharge time reduction. your suggestion for best elite for every caster but monk was to use assassins promise. yes its a good pve elite. my ideas promoted playing a character with an elite from their primary. this thread is about the best elite for each profession. not being restricted to a certain secondary is also nice in many situations. if you want to play the game with all of your pve only skills and consets be my guest. i enjoy a bit more of a challenge.

Tyla · Oct 19, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

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Originally Posted by jaximus

tyla i liked you cuz you made sense before. 2 rcs would be stupid seeing as the recharge is 2s. therefore that argument is flawed.

Read: "Cannot Target Self".

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i could say why not two woh if word is better? youd step on each others toes if you did that and conditions would kill you.

I'm not implying either is better. I'm saying they go hand-in-hand.

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you keep saying deep freeze, do you bring an ele hero/person in hm? i see a lot of the triple necro/bha/barrage thing.

Deep Freeze only needs /E. You can put it on one of your heroes, you know.

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good thing about cripslash is the ability to use flail. your pesonal numbers from the sword are lower, but you trigger mark of pain more often leading to more dps as a whole. i view builds more of what can i do for the team than what i can do for me. my cripslash choice as the best elite for warriors in pve was because it offers a snare in one character without restricting to a secondary. im not saying with a proper team another elite cant be more effective. im purely offering evidence supported reasoning for why i chose what i did.

You can already use Flail anyway. If you take a look at the D-Slasher, it's an incredibly cramped bar but the skill slots are worth it. Think about it; godmode, an enemy on the floor as much as possible...

This isn't PvP. Your Deep Freeze won't get interrupted that much. And this is a team game.

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you argue against an elite because of overpowered pve skills. then you say you have 200 points to spend on the rest of your skills. why would you play a mesmer if you werent going to devote points to fast casting?

Exactly. What does Fast Casting bring to PvE that I can't do with Mindbender? Soul Reaping and other primaries are more useful than it.

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thats foolish. then you say you can use skills instead of spells. last i checked mesmers were spell casters... if you are gonna argue to use skills, use a ranger with expertise. then youre argument for using skills doesnt work cuz then you are no longer a mesmer. so youre saying because of brawling headbutt- magehunter, dev hammer, backbreaker, and shove are bad elites for pve?

Why would you want to run Dev Hammer, Backbeaker or Shove (which is bad anyway) in PvE when you have Brawling Headbutt? More to the case, what sort of idiot would bring any of those elites over Earth Shaker?

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so you are in favor of using your pve only skills but not essences of celerity? theres your recharge time reduction. your suggestion for best elite for every caster but monk was to use assassins promise. yes its a good pve elite. my ideas promoted playing a character with an elite from their primary. this thread is about the best elite for each profession. not being restricted to a certain secondary is also nice in many situations. if you want to play the game with all of your pve only skills and consets be my guest. i enjoy a bit more of a challenge.

If that's how you view it, simply take off all your gear and run no skills at all. You're only gimping yourself the same way you are without using PvE-only junk.

upier · Oct 19, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

you argue against an elite because of overpowered pve skills. then you say you have 200 points to spend on the rest of your skills. why would you play a mesmer if you werent going to devote points to fast casting? thats foolish. then you say you can use skills instead of spells. last i checked mesmers were spell casters... if you are gonna argue to use skills, use a ranger with expertise. then youre argument for using skills doesnt work cuz then you are no longer a mesmer. so youre saying because of brawling headbutt- magehunter, dev hammer, backbreaker, and shove are bad elites for pve? so you are in favor of using your pve only skills but not essences of celerity? theres your recharge time reduction. your suggestion for best elite for every caster but monk was to use assassins promise. yes its a good pve elite. my ideas promoted playing a character with an elite from their primary. this thread is about the best elite for each profession. not being restricted to a certain secondary is also nice in many situations. if you want to play the game with all of your pve only skills and consets be my guest. i enjoy a bit more of a challenge.

The bolded part is giving me much trouble.
Elaborate.

FlamingMetroid · Oct 19, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

some people have obviously never heard of Earthshaker :|

jaximus · Oct 19, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

rc cant self target, so youre gonna bring an elite just to cure the other rc? enough about that...
to tyla...you have a point with mindbender, but why waste a skill slot when i can use attribute points to do the same thing. although your example of sould reaping only furthers my case. soul reaping is necro. i was talking about mesmers.

to tyla and flaming metroid... clearly i left out earthshaker from my examples, the reason, earthshaker is aoe, my examples were single target kds.
i play both pve and pvp so i like to try and keep to skills i can use in both. id rather not hamper my reactions/timing/thoughts by using skills to make pve a button mashing fest. its personal choice, nothing against any of you.
to upier, same reasoning i gave to tyla about soul reaping. we are talking mesmer elites and skills. if you arent using spells, dont use a mesmer. im saying if you want to be more efficient with skills, use a ranger.

Tyla · Oct 19, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

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Originally Posted by jaximus

rc cant self target, so youre gonna bring an elite just to cure the other rc? enough about that...

Well if it's superior, you'd be seeing that.

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to tyla...you have a point with mindbender, but why waste a skill slot when i can use attribute points to do the same thing. although your example of sould reaping only furthers my case. soul reaping is necro. i was talking about mesmers.

Mesmers offer nothing that another class can do with superiority. Mindbender offers fast casting to any class, whereas using your attribute points to fuel the speed of spells being cast can be troubling too. I'd rather have a useful primary and use a skill slot if I really want this.

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to tyla and flaming metroid... clearly i left out earthshaker from my examples, the reason, earthshaker is aoe, my examples were single target kds.

And why would you take those knockdowns if you can have a stronger one in terms of single-target knockdowns?

Even then, Earth Shaker comes out superior.

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i play both pve and pvp so i like to try and keep to skills i can use in both. id rather not hamper my reactions/timing/thoughts by using skills to make pve a button mashing fest. its personal choice, nothing against any of you.

It doesn't make it any less powerful.

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to upier, same reasoning i gave to tyla about soul reaping. we are talking mesmer elites and skills. if you arent using spells, dont use a mesmer. im saying if you want to be more efficient with skills, use a ranger.

So we should now run R/X or Me/X?

Soul Reaping is the most powerful attribute for PvE fueling infinite energy, if you need the energy management. Mostly for heroes though, a good player shouldn't need it half as much as a bot.

Seriously though, Fast Casting has a negligable effect in PvE. If you really want it, use Mindbender and/or consumables.

jaximus · Oct 19, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Mesmers offer nothing that another class can do with superiority. I'd rather have a useful primary and use a skill slot if I really want this.
Soul Reaping is the most powerful attribute for PvE .

again tyla, we are talking about mesmer elite skills right? please stay on topic.

Hanging Man · Oct 19, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

best elites for each profession go like this

warrior - dragon slash, i love to spam SY and pretend to be good
ranger - BHA
Monk - Rc
Nec - i like BiP
mesmer - power block
Ele - personally i like star burst ^_^
assasin - Mark of insecurity never see it used much
Rit - wanderlust
paragon - soldiers fury
derv - avatar of dwayna

Tyla · Oct 19, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

again tyla, we are talking about mesmer elite skills right? please stay on topic.

Oh, right.

SoI sucks because there's either an elite you want to use with it, or the amount of attribute lines invested in are pretty useless for the most part.

VoR g-g-g-go!

jaximus · Oct 19, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

ty, thats better

upier · Oct 20, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

to upier, same reasoning i gave to tyla about soul reaping. we are talking mesmer elites and skills. if you arent using spells, dont use a mesmer. im saying if you want to be more efficient with skills, use a ranger.

Blackout.
Probably the only mesmer skill that actually justifies bringing a primary mesmer in PvE (because you get 6 secs at 14 - meaning you need a rune). For everything else - you might as well bring a secondary mesmer.
And look - it's not a spell.

TheDarkshineKnight · Oct 20, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

FACT: The only reason to play a Mesmer primary in PvE is if you intend to use skills that scale with Fast Casting. Otherwise, Mesmers are worthless in PvE as a primary class as their primary attributed can be replicated using PvE skills.

upier · Oct 20, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

FACT: The only reason to play a Mesmer primary in PvE is if you intend to use skills that scale with Fast Casting. Otherwise, Mesmers are worthless in PvE as a primary class as their primary attributed can be replicated using PvE skills.

My mesmers cute outfit says otherwise!

TheDarkshineKnight · Oct 20, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

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Originally Posted by upier

My mesmers cute outfit says otherwise!

Well, I'm certainly not going to deny that Mesmers have fashion sense. :P

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 20, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

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Originally Posted by jaximus, on best elites

i dont like the xinrae stuff cuz is op'd.

you must be playing a different game than everyone else - one in which the goal is not to win.

Snow Bunny · Oct 20, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

PvE -

War: Earthshaker/DragonSlash
Monk: Word of Healing
Ele: Ether Renewal
Necromancer: Discord
Mesmer: Visions of Regret
Dervish: Avatar of Melandru/Dwayna
Ritualist: n/a
Assassin: Shadow Form
Paragon: Stunning Strike
Ranger: Barrage

PvP -

War: Devastating Hammer/Eviscerate
Monk: Word of Healing
Ele: Icy Shackles
Necromancer: Wail of Doom/Pain of Disenchantment (just matters how much of a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you are)
Mesmer: Visions of Regret/Power Block
Dervish: Avatar of Melandru/Wounding Strike
Ritualist: Caretaker's Charge
Assassin: Hidden Caltrops
Paragon: Song of Purification (?)
Ranger: Burning Arrow

I look at this from a GvG standpoint, which is the highest form of PvP.

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 20, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

actually The Most Dangerous Game is the highest form of PvP but i'll let you off with a warning this time...

jaximus · Oct 20, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Blackout.
Probably the only mesmer skill that actually justifies bringing a primary mesmer in PvE

lol what? blackout in pve? dunno really what youre getting at there, please continue

upier · Oct 20, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

lol what? blackout in pve? dunno really what youre getting at there, please continue

Of course.
With SY! there are no more armor issues since everyone is a "tank".
Blackout completely and utterly shuts down the target you want to shut down - the only reason why people don't bother with it is because simple damage does the trick. The skill is just to strong for people to bother with since everything dies after 3 hits. And the things that don't, well ... Blackout was "balanced" for those foes ...

The much more relevant issue here though is that it's not a spell.
This means that the mesmers not only can use non-spell skills but they actually have a bunch of them. Which totally negates your opinion that a character that uses skills can not be a mesmer.
Which means that the effect of SoI would have to be really godly to justify limiting your skill choices to spells only.
And that's going to be one tough cookie to crack with skills like Finish Him! in the game ...

jaximus · Oct 20, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

orite, i guess i didnt think of people all being tanks, guess when ursan died i thought class meant people had roles... also when do individual targets really need shutting down in pve? if your team cant out dps the few monks you encounter, then you should really try something new. plus, id rather be mobile and rely on skill to shut someone down rather than have to run up to them (in pve) to shut them down. also in pve with teammates running bars including vor or ss, dont you want your target using skills?

so to clarify, you are saying soi is a bad elite because blackout is a skill that people dont use because simple damage is more effective. and that blackout is balanced for foes that dont, meaning pvp? where soi isnt the best elite? am i on track here?

also the reason for blackout being a skill and not a spell is because if it were a spell fast casting would speed up activation. such a powerful tool as a 6 second skill disable requires a fixed activation.

also it would be difficult to use finish him while blacked out, although on other targets where shutdown isnt necessary you could participate on a kill during the 7 seconds of recharge. this time though, would likely be used to move to the next target. yes i am aware that finish him is a shout so mobility isnt an issue. so therefore youd be choosing against an elite based on bringing a skill you only use in certain cases.
im making sure i am completely sure on what you are trying to say.