Curse

slowerpoke · Dec 03, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

HM, isnt that PvP?

Rocky Raccoon · Dec 03, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

WTF is algernon juice?

It's the juice you get when you squeeze smart white mice.

Super Igor · Dec 03, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

get a better guild tbh, and team up with them to pwn pve with full human party.

Servant of Kali · Dec 04, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

I'm someone who was MiA from GW for a long long time. Then came back and decided to give PUGs a chance.

After days and days, I'm back with H&H (exceptions are guildies and mesmer meetings).

These are the things I had to go through with PUGs:

1. Leechers. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but 3 leechers within few days? This is really despicable. I am not talking about occasional afkers, but intentional leeching.

2. Afkers. Selfish people who think that online is 100% fictional world, and that PUGs don't matter, that PUGs are not people. Hey, if I PUG, I dedicate my time to PUG group. I'm not going to make excuses every 5 min "oh im sorry, i have IRL so you dont care, deal with it". Well if you have IRL what are you doing in online game, and why are you wasting time of others people, just take H n H.

3. Leavers. OK, sometimes a person has to go. No blame here. But in longer missions etc, you need someone reliable. And heroes are more so.

4. Incompetence. I am not talking about beginners who didn't grasp the game yet. I am talking about veterans who still seem to have horrid skill bars. When I PUG, I have one rule: DONT SHOW ME YOUR SKILLBAR. I don't want to know, and don't torture me please

Ignorance is bliss. And they equip heroes with worse skills than henchies have (!).

5. Attitude, lack of organization and discipline.

May I have 7 heroes pls. Not for higher efficiency, but more fun.

illidan009 · Dec 04, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

Neither do I, I've just gotten really good at it so it looks like I'm trolling 24/7, pretty pro amirite?

No offense but a lot of places I seen you post it was just "cool story bro" or some crap like that...wtf.

Well yea I like pugging too it's more fun than H/H even if they fail sometimes, so we can see wammo/double dragon ele RAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.
Tannakai temple vanq, for example, was a bitch with H/H. Then I found someone with the primary quest and beat it ;P

DoomFrost · Dec 04, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

One of the reasons I've stayed away from pugging nowadays is because some of the people's skill bars I've seen would make the hamstorm warrior on the Guild Wars Proph box seem like a better candidate to bring along than them.

I've played this game for three years, I don't want to group with people anymore. Heroes have made my life semi-easier. And I'd take semi-easy over impossible any day.

DarkGanni · Dec 04, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

4. Incompetence. I am not talking about beginners who didn't grasp the game yet. I am talking about veterans who still seem to have horrid skill bars. When I PUG, I have one rule: DONT SHOW ME YOUR SKILLBAR. I don't want to know, and don't torture me please

Ignorance is bliss. And they equip heroes with worse skills than henchies have (!).

Perfectly agreed on that point. I still pug and try to direct them in the right way by helping with builds and such but most of them drown back to the bad builds. PS: Forgot to mention those are players with fow armor and epeen stuff and character names that I saw more than 2 years ago.

One thing I noticed in pugs is that they don't use many pve skills.

aapo · Dec 04, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

One thing I noticed in pugs is that they don't use many pve skills.

- You guys really don't see where this comes from? The players you see PUGging are those who have just started. When the first skills W/E gets in his bar are Frenzy, Healing Signet, Firestorm, Flare, then those are the skills player will use. They don't bother seeking out skill trainers in remote locations, because you know their skills are LOCKED OUT when they've bought the game. I spent good amount of time playing PvE with different profession combinations just to be able to fill roles in GvG team when I started out. Where does it come from that Guild Wars is a "PvP game".

Do you, after beating UW and FoW 50 times to get your FoW armor, perfect skillbar, maxed out PvE skills and five million balthazar faction return to replay some random normal mode missions? I don't think so.

Now put yourselves to position of new player. How does he know that +armor bonuses don't stack past +25? Nothing in the game tells you so. How does he know that Mending is a bad skill - he doesn't know what energy and health regen means! Again, nothing in the game tells you anything, I've read everything on wiki. Nothing in the game tells you about GuildWiki. I happened to come across it when visiting www.guildwars.com out of interest. That's where I also found out about these forums.

Are you still wondering why PUGs suck?

MagmaRed · Dec 04, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

I still think the best idea for HM would have been to give monsters a secondary. Making them higher level could have worked as well, but the increased attributes, armor, health, and skill activation/recharge times was just poor. GW:EN added monsters with a secondary, and it works quite well. Some of the monsters even have very nice builds using those secondaries.

I do a lot of PvE myself, and am very glad for the hench and heroes. Because not many people are on when I am on and wanting to do what I want to do. Since I have trouble finding people on when I am that want to do what I want to do, the hero/hench teams allow me to go with 1-3 other people instead of 7.

assassin shaun · Dec 04, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

i agree with you about the fact that there aren't many people playing with others, but it is their choice entirely if they want to h/h

Tortoise · Dec 04, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

To me Anet completely missed the point with HM. The old whine that HM is just NM but with the enemies supercharged goes to the core of the problem.

Back in the old days the two most 'difficult' prophecies missions were thought to be Thunderhead Keep and Thirsty River. I actually remember people ragequitting because of Thirsty River. Neither of them had the hardest enemies in the game but they did force a team to actually play together, watch aggro and make some strategic choices. The ring of fire missions however were never deemed hard. If anything they're just boring... Why? Because enemies with higher lvls or more armor do not equate with an elevated difficulty.

Anet however chose to make HM challenging by going the Ring of Fire-way and not by stressing the importance of team-play. The thing is however, that if you supercharge enemies you'll automatically limit a player's ability to chose skills freely. The harder an enemy hits, the more you're forced to bring along specific counters to that enemy and the more you'll be forced to run certain builds. If you force players to run specific buildsets in an environment in which most players are just running crap then automatically will you create an environment in which PUGs are deemed horrible and Heroes are deemed reliable. HM does not force you to be more efficient as a team. HM only forces you to optimize the builds you run with. HM is alot more Build Wars than NM and is thus automatically more suited for H/H then for PUGS. Best times I had in GW was when I was exploring new environments with a balanced all guild team, not knowing what you will face and what choices you would have to make. GW is most fun when you're forced to use player skill to overcome a disadvantageous situation. Not when you can overcome each difficulty by using Skill X.

Arduin · Dec 04, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Now put yourselves to position of new player. How does he know that +armor bonuses don't stack past +25? Nothing in the game tells you so. How does he know that Mending is a bad skill - he doesn't know what energy and health regen means! Again, nothing in the game tells you anything, I've read everything on wiki. Nothing in the game tells you about GuildWiki. I happened to come across it when visiting www.guildwars.com out of interest. That's where I also found out about these forums.

Are you still wondering why PUGs suck?

Solution: When entering the game every time for the first month, a big flashing message PRESS F10, PRESS F10, PRESS F10 needs to be added. As soon as people know that gateway exists to the Wiki, nothing is keeping them uninformed anymore.

Skyy High · Dec 04, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortoise

HM is alot more Build Wars than NM and is thus automatically more suited for H/H then for PUGS.

Well that's a lot of bullcrap. Yes, there exist certain builds which utterly destroy HM, but in no way are there only a few ways to do any particular area. When vanquishing, I continually switched up my heroes and their builds. I probably would have gone a lot faster if I had just run discordway or something like that, but I finished LV without ever running any 3 necro build. Building for an area by dropping RC on one of your bars when you're going into a condition-heavy area does not make HM = build wars, it means that you just have to plan ahead a little.

Painbringer · Dec 04, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

What is the difference with having heros with well thought out builds compaired to another game with cheat codes. It is up to you to use them or not if it too easy then don't sab try different henches. There are so many combos of skills you can use it boggles the mind. Be creative try something new.

Advantage of heros /henc group they listen

Humans do as they want

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 04, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

hm is a joke

GWamm is not worth it

Tyla · Dec 04, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I believe it was evident that HM was a total failure the moment I stepped into the first HM Explorable. Unless I've been dreaming, of course.

Abedeus · Dec 04, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Well, actually, at first it was like ZOMG WTH IS GOING ON.

Now I accidentialy pressed HM button, didn't notice and went out to do quests. Didn't notice it was Hard Mode until I got wanded for 30 dmg. Few times in a second.

And since then, Hard Mode = Normal Mode pre-making-it-easy-mode + a bit bigger numbers.

Master Ketsu · Dec 04, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

H/H didn't ruin GW. You could always hench the hardest missions before hero's even existed.

Back then most players still preferred to group since back then it was easier to win with actual players. With the addition of PvX, PvE skills that require little to no thought to use effectively, separation of pve and pvp skills due to noobs who can't adapt, and general dumbing down of the game to 12345 builds...GW has become a game so easy that even terribad players can solo without the aid of real players. Do not blame heroes, they were a good addition to the game. Blame the powercreep and win button pve skills/CC builds that even a trained monkey could use.

pumpkin pie · Dec 05, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Yeah. Even Goren is better than 90% of pug players.

And has better skills than 99% of pug players.

Off course Goren is good, hes one of my maid AI when I go hammering with my warrior character.

byteme! · Dec 05, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

HM gives players a false sense of accomplishment. You often hear things like HM is supposed to be hard. HM is only for people who are capable. Bad players don't belong in HM. The list goes on and on. The reality of it all is a joke. HM is nothing but...

The fact people are steam rolling through HM and countless Legendary Vanquisher among many other titles are constantly being maxed effortlessly basically throws the whole "HM is meant to be hard and it's meant to be for good players" theory out the window.

Same goes for DoA. If good teams with a balanced setup (using no gimmicks) can waltz in and be done with it in 1.5 hours that throws the whole HM is meant to be hard out the window. You guys were looking for a challenge and got none. Well maybe initially when everything was all new but that challenge is long gone. Given time, some pugs will learn and get better as well provided they get a positive experience in their gaming.