Curse

DarkGanni · Dec 02, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Been discussed countless times.....seriously. The game is broken and there's no turning back. If you don't like it just play another game or get a good guild.

Oh yeah almost forgot, It's thanks to heroes that I still hardcore play GW after 3 years.

Sol Deathgard · Dec 03, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Of course I can turn to my guildies but I belong to a small guild and it's unlikely to get a group of 6 or 8 together. I know them for 3 years or so and I really don't want to change guilds.

Your own fault then. If you dont like heroes oh well, they're here to stay, get used to it, if you are either too stubborn to leave your guild for a more active one, or call on allys, then you have to get heroes, cause most people learned very early on, pugs will always have either

A. that idiot that has no clue what he's doing & refuses to learn.
B. that idiot that thinks he's the greatest player to ever play this game but when he proves he's the weak link in the team he blames everyone else but himself for being total noobs.
C. you usually get the monk & warrior arguing over how to do each others jobs then one or both quit & the team is forced to resign & start over because these 2 retards crippled the group with their selfishness.

Fact: Heroes follow called targests
Fact: Heroes don't leave in the middle of whatever you are doing
Fact: Heroes will have decent skill bars unless you yourself don't know how to make one

That in itself makes heroes much better then people.

Mesmer in Need · Dec 03, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

WTF is algernon juice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
Basically, it's implying that people need some "miracle tonic" to become less stupid. If only...

For every change that anet has made, there has always been people that QQ'd about it. Yet these people still play the game and post here to qq more.

Itt: people not being able to move on.

Parson Brown · Dec 03, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

WTF is algernon juice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_Algernon

EDIT: Damn, Mesmer cast [skill]Stolen Speed[/skill] on me

Improvavel · Dec 03, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard

Fact: Heroes follow called targests
Fact: Heroes don't leave in the middle of whatever you are doing
Fact: Heroes will have decent skill bars unless you yourself don't know how to make one

That in itself makes heroes much better then people.

Most important fact - Heroes don't take 3 hours to setup and they come in all varieties, colors and professions, unlike those single profession players out there that are always warriors or eles.

Still, any half experienced player (there are a few out there) will spank any are 3-10x faster then any heroes setup (especially cause heroes suck at melee and they can't use PvE skill, but who cares?).

Last patch was a nice boost in the way of improving actually play instead of farm/abuse. Not that I have anything against the persons that like that kind of activities - I do them daily, although its called work and I get paid to get better goodies to have fun.

Keep bumping the rewards for actual play (go out with a party, human or AI, preferably mixed profession ones) and kill everything that moves till farming isn't more profitable that actual play.

Mystica · Dec 03, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

I play a monk and just started use the triple necro setup for my heroes. Pretty amazing in NM. I changed most of my skills to Domination Mesmer skills and Asura skills for attack support since I hardly have to do any healing... Go Sabway all the way!!!

So, no more Go Sabway all the way!!!?

Apok Omen · Dec 03, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I dislike free updated content that doesn't effect co-op play as well...

Bryant Again · Dec 03, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

At first I was a bit bummed about HM as well - until I realized how hard it is to make an even barely intelligent AI with the millions of variables GW contains, especially with ANet's limited resources (not even WoW can achieve something like this as evidenced by the tanking mechanics).

The largest problem I can pinpoint is that a few classes don't necessarily fit the mold of such a method of increasing difficulty.

pumpkin pie · Dec 03, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

I suspect this thread is this thread in disguise

Master Knightfall · Dec 03, 2008, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Another point to point out is that by making a hard mode into the game they separated the player base once again. At one time we were all playing in the same game frame. Now, 1/2 are playing hard mode and 1/2 are playing normal mode. So this reduces the number of players to group with once more. Then you have most of all the old content like in Prophecies and Factions where the majority of the districts are empty or just people standing around afk. The pugging/grouping aspect of GW was definitely affected by hard mode and they really should take it out and bring it back to the way it was so everybody is playing the same thing in all areas.

Gun Pierson · Dec 03, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people. In my opinion, that is one of the true reasons GW has been successful, the fact that it is a game where you can play online with your friends OR do most/all of it by yourself. At any rate, I certainly have very little desire to be forced to play with random (and often incompetent) strangers. If you want it to be a true social experience, where you play with only human players, that is exactly what PvP is all about. PvP is a hell of a lot of fun, but its easy to get tired of all the asshats you run into, so I for one am very glad I can take a break from that and play on my own without being at a huge disadvantage.

Good post and I agree with you. The co-operative aspect of GW is why me and my real life friends chose GW at release. And for almost 4 years now, we try to avoid pugs whenever we can. I h/h or play with 6 heroes when none of my real life friends are online. But even the first year when we didn't have heroes and HM around, I prefered henchies whenever I could. No forced and unnatural pugging.

I don't mind other players, there is social interaction in towns and trading etc. as long as I'm not forced to play with them it's ok. We have more of a PAT relation (Playing Apart Together) and that's part of GW succes imo. Get and play in your own world and have some fun. It's not something new, the Baldur's Gate series had it too, except that there we could play with a all 'hero' party.

Yang Whirlwind · Dec 03, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Personally, I think it's great, that you do not have to go looking for a group of 15-year old noobs with no concept of team work (or other brain-activity-requiring-concepts), whenever you want to accomplish anything.
The "good old days" you seems to remember, appears to be missing vital points, like waiting for an hour to find that 2.nd monk and failing multiple times due to baaad players!

pumpkin pie · Dec 03, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

the main reason that I do not pug is not because players have bad skill bar or that they talk crap or that they are rude, the main reason that prevented me from pugging, the number one culprit, is:

Pug: hang on one second okay, i have to go for dinner. and they are away for half an hour. .... and believe me i meet with these a whole lot, yesterday its worse I met a low level players in the jungle area, they was inviting my Survivor Monk to play, so, i declined, log in to my elementalist, invited said players because as my rule that will be the person i help that day, and half way thru the mission, they say good bye and left the game. .... but then I never learn, i still pick up pug almost everyday. ...

PS: I don't even need to do that mission in the first place...

Tharg · Dec 03, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

to Mystica: you are right. Three months ago I started with Sabway and thought it was great. Obviously it still works great, also in HM. But that's besides the point.

It boils down to me being frustrated about PUGs. I used to love PUGging, even with all the problems that PUGs entail, which have been well documented.

This discussion shows once again the diversity in what people like, dislike, expect and hope to get out of GW.

CyberNigma · Dec 03, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

You can't force players to play the way you want them to. There's not much you could have done to force people to PuG if they don't want to. Many people play multiplayer games to pay with people they know (guilds or just friends). Many people play because of the dynamic nature of an online game, even if they prefer to play by themselves.

If you think that ArenaNet could have made people go back to using PuGs then I think that's a bit naive. Even Blizzard cannot do that for old content, and they've tried pretty hard with the achievements and what-not. What happens is people look within their circle for other people that want to or need to do something (such as the paladin/lock mount quests in WoW or any old non-HM content in GW). If they cannot find someone they know (and I know this from people I used to run with telling me exactly why they wouldn't do something) then they just do not do it... ever... People have told me if they can't get someone they know to do something or someone from their guild to do something (or even soemone they know to run through it with a higher level main/alt) then they absolutely will not PuG it, hence will not bother with that content..

The problem is (with the internet and certain games in particular), too many people that turn out to be asses run people off from PuGs in a way that many of them never come back.. For them it's literally not worth the hassle to go through that experience in what is supposed to be a game. You don't have to do everything, and many people choose not to. They're not playing the game to provide you company. They're playing for their own enjoyment, which means limiting anything that may take away from that enjoyment.

This isn't Burger King. Even though it's a multiplayer game, it doesn't mean anyone is going to play with you. They may play with others, but there's nothing to say they have to play with you, unless they know you already.

Guild Wars isn't the only game that has problems with PuGs. In fact, most do a one point or another. The best time to PuG is when something (content-wise) is brand new. Hard Mode didn't bring new content.. It just made old content somewhat harder (relative, not saying its hard, just harder than normal mode). EotN did help PugS for a little while. I saw firsthand that there were PuGs out there (as I got into quite a few). Other people I played with that didn't mind PuGs got into them. If you didn't get into PuGs (any of you, not any one person in this thread) then it's just a case of certain people wouldn't PuG with YOU, not that they wouldn't PuG.

Guild Wars Hard Mode (and missions) is mostly an all-or-nothing situation. If you wipe in a mission, or get to 60% in Hard Mode, you lose ALL progress towards your goal. You start over completely. For short runs, it's no biggie, but for longer runs, that's quite a chance you take running it with someone that you don't know that could rage quit, quit for other reasons, not be up to the task, etc.

Mythic put all kinds of non-endgame content into their game Warhammer Online to make it different that other games where they really start at the level cap, but now they're finding out that players are so attuned to the game starting at the end of the content that players are just powerleveling through the game to see what's at the end (endgame). You can't make people play against the way they want to. If there were no heroes then people would be stuck at bottlenecks like they were before (yeah, not everyone is uber nor should they be - it's ok to suck at a game forever if you're having fun because for most people it's a game not a way of life). If they took away henchmen, Guild Wars wouldn't work as an instanced game. If you want a guaranteed multiplayer game then play something with a matchmaker such as Halo or Gears of War. You can play EVE but even there - no guarantee anyone will play with you.

Darkobra · Dec 03, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Oh, this is an OMG-there-are-no-PUGs-QQ!?
And I totally expected an OMG-HM-sucks-because-all-they-did-was-raise-the-levels-of-foes-by-3-million-along-with their-armor,-damage-output-and-every-foe-has-access-to-FC-that-now-affects-all-skills-while-still-keeping-the-same-moronic-AI-with-moronic-bars-QQ!

The thread does not deliver!
The same way that HM didn't.

And that's why I don't do HM anymore. A few areas in Prophecies to see what it was capable of and then it was the same game, new paint job.

Now I like heroes and hench. I completed all of the game with just hench when I got a bit more experienced and did the same with Factions. Heroes just made it easier for everyone. You will always have the OPTION to group with real people, just as now there is an option not to.

Frank Dudenstein · Dec 03, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

Uh, hate to break it to you ... the problem isn't that hard mode is so easy that even heroes can do it. The problem is heroes are better players than 95% of the pugs that you will pick up.

I don't take Livia/Olias/MoW with me because I am antisocial and don't want to contribnute to a group. I take them because they give me the best chance of successfully completeing the mission. By alot.

Abedeus · Dec 03, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Yeah. Even Goren is better than 90% of pug players.

And has better skills than 99% of pug players.

Alleji · Dec 03, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

EDIT: <insert basically the same reply to this paragraph that 10 people already made, gg me for posting before reading rest of the thread>

Gregslot · Dec 03, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Shouldnt this be closed?
There is no discussion in here.