Curse

Tharg · Dec 01, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Let me prefact that I am a PvE player; I have not done PvP. I started GW when there was only Prophecies. The good old 'Mo LFG mission and bonus' etc. You simply had to get a PUG together otherwise there was no way to do certain missions. Getting PUG's for skill capping, exploring etcetera. This was the real MMORPG...

Fast forwarding. After adding heroes in Nightfall we got Sabway and with PvE only skills from EotN my Monk can now tank and deal more DPS with Pain Inverter etc. than my old Prophecies warrior could. No balance in the game and it turned GW into a sibngle player game. We are doing titles now....? HFFF for hours and hours....? Thank God for the HFFF nerf.

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

Of course I can turn to my guildies but I belong to a small guild and it's unlikely to get a group of 6 or 8 together. I know them for 3 years or so and I really don't want to change guilds.

EotN dungeons come close to Very Hard Mode but why locate them so far away? If you have to spend 15 - 20 minutes to get there then there are still almost no PUG's. Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn GW back to a multi player game.

upier · Dec 01, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Oh, this is an OMG-there-are-no-PUGs-QQ!?
And I totally expected an OMG-HM-sucks-because-all-they-did-was-raise-the-levels-of-foes-by-3-million-along-with their-armor,-damage-output-and-every-foe-has-access-to-FC-that-now-affects-all-skills-while-still-keeping-the-same-moronic-AI-with-moronic-bars-QQ!

The thread does not deliver!
The same way that HM didn't.

FlamingMetroid · Dec 01, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Let me prefact that I am a PvE player; I have not done PvP.

well...
12chars

Tharg · Dec 01, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

thanks upier - I appreciate your kind words. I guess I should have written a more complete dissertation on the subject. Your:

'HM-sucks-because-all-they-did-was-raise-the-levels-of-foes-by-3-million-along-with their-armor,-damage-output-and-every-foe-has-access-to-FC-that-now-affects-all-skills-while-still-keeping-the-same-moronic-AI-with-moronic-bars-QQ'

is indeed a correct description of the mechanics of a sucky HM. I was merely pointing out my disappointment that Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn the game around - that's all. If this has been mentioned before on Guru then accept my appologies. Unlike you I don't have the time to troll on these boards 24/7.

FlamingMetroid · Dec 01, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Unlike you I don't have the time to troll on these boards 24/7.

Neither do I, I've just gotten really good at it so it looks like I'm trolling 24/7, pretty pro amirite?

payne · Dec 01, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

this was never a MMORPG for the entire time i've been playing i.e over 2yrs...h/h is superior to players thats why ppl don't group and play h/h

o.O sabs and discord dont make the game easy it was already to easy...<<<mostly used by either bad players or ppl who just cba to spend along time doing things..
anywho - 2 'sin and 1 para heroes make HM to easy IMO and can generally rape any area.......

so yer HM is fail but so is QQ troll threads

toodles y'all

upier · Dec 01, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

thanks upier - I appreciate your kind words. I guess I should have written a more complete dissertation on the subject. Your:

'HM-sucks-because-all-they-did-was-raise-the-levels-of-foes-by-3-million-along-with their-armor,-damage-output-and-every-foe-has-access-to-FC-that-now-affects-all-skills-while-still-keeping-the-same-moronic-AI-with-moronic-bars-QQ'

is indeed a correct description of the mechanics of a sucky HM. I was merely pointing out my disappointment that Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn the game around - that's all. If this has been mentioned before on Guru then accept my appologies. Unlike you I don't have the time to troll on these boards 24/7.

Ohh so it is a HM-sucks-because-all-they-did-was-raise-the-levels-of-foes-by-3-million-along-with their-armor,-damage-output-and-every-foe-has-access-to-FC-that-now-affects-all-skills-while-still-keeping-the-same-moronic-AI-with-moronic-bars-QQ!
Then the thread does deliver!

The issue that you are forgetting though is that PvE is just to big to support multiplayer as it's primary playstyle. 4 games or instanced content with NM and HM and each with missions/quests/... 4 years into the game's lifetime when everyone is either grinding or simply not playing would make finding a party nearly impossible.
It's next to impossible that what you are suggesting would work.

Oh and right on Flamy!
Right on!

kostolomac · Dec 01, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Let me prefact that I am a PvE player; I have not done PvP. I started GW when there was only Prophecies. The good old 'Mo LFG mission and bonus' etc. You simply had to get a PUG together otherwise there was no way to do certain missions. Getting PUG's for skill capping, exploring etcetera. This was the real MMORPG...

Fast forwarding. After adding heroes in Nightfall we got Sabway and with PvE only skills from EotN my Monk can now tank and deal more DPS with Pain Inverter etc. than my old Prophecies warrior could. No balance in the game and it turned GW into a sibngle player game. We are doing titles now....? HFFF for hours and hours....? Thank God for the HFFF nerf.

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway or the 3 para build we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

Of course I can turn to my guildies but I belong to a small guild and it's unlikely to get a group of 6 or 8 together. I know them for 3 years or so and I really don't want to change guilds.

EotN dungeons come close to Very Hard Mode but why locate them so far away? If you have to spend 15 - 20 minutes to get there then there are still almost no PUG's. Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn GW back to a multi player game.

I changed a bit if you don't mind. I feel you man. I thought Hm would be hard in a sense that it would challenge me to improve. But all they did was up the nubmers and add an elite skill to the monsters that didn't have an elite skill. The only thing I could improve were my gimmick builds. Also I thought HM was supposed to be done for the better "loot" and a sense of personal accomplishment and not for some retarted title.

Tharg · Dec 01, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

hi Upier,

you have a point there as well (and sorry for my slightly over board reply early). I guess there is a push and a pull effect. Easy mode and limited new content pushed players out of the game. Do you think that if HM would have made it more challenging and a real muti player game, players would have pulled back in? It would be a self fulfilling prophecy - lot's of people playing PUGs would invite more people playing in PUGs.

Ciao,

Tim

Captain Bulldozer · Dec 01, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people. In my opinion, that is one of the true reasons GW has been successful, the fact that it is a game where you can play online with your friends OR do most/all of it by yourself. At any rate, I certainly have very little desire to be forced to play with random (and often incompetent) strangers. If you want it to be a true social experience, where you play with only human players, that is exactly what PvP is all about. PvP is a hell of a lot of fun, but its easy to get tired of all the asshats you run into, so I for one am very glad I can take a break from that and play on my own without being at a huge disadvantage.

daraaksii · Dec 01, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Let's just say: GW is not really a PvE game. The best contents are the tournaments.

Lord Of Blame · Dec 01, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people. In my opinion, that is one of the true reasons GW has been successful, the fact that it is a game where you can play online with your friends OR do most/all of it by yourself. At any rate, I certainly have very little desire to be forced to play with random (and often incompetent) strangers. If you want it to be a true social experience, where you play with only human players, that is exactly what PvP is all about. PvP is a hell of a lot of fun, but its easy to get tired of all the asshats you run into, so I for one am very glad I can take a break from that and play on my own without being at a huge disadvantage.

Could not agree more!!!!

gw_poster · Dec 01, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people. In my opinion, that is one of the true reasons GW has been successful, the fact that it is a game where you can play online with your friends OR do most/all of it by yourself. At any rate, I certainly have very little desire to be forced to play with random (and often incompetent) strangers. If you want it to be a true social experience, where you play with only human players, that is exactly what PvP is all about. PvP is a hell of a lot of fun, but its easy to get tired of all the asshats you run into, so I for one am very glad I can take a break from that and play on my own without being at a huge disadvantage.

^^ what he said ^^

The forth fly · Dec 01, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

pvp players arseholes much

Bobby2 · Dec 01, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Recruit people into your guild, preferably ones that don't suck.

Quaker · Dec 01, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people.

I too agree with this. The OP suggests that NCsoft missed a chance to "turn GW around" and make it a better MMO, but I think NCsoft may have seen the direction the player base was heading and felt that there were more sales available by appealing to the solo/multi-player gaming market.
Personally, I think in the long run, that I prefer the solo/multi-player aspect more than being forced to PUG.

Aldawg Thanes · Dec 01, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

to the OP: While your complaint MIGHT be legitimate, it is worth pointing out that a large percentage of the players of GW don't necessarily want to play with other people. In my opinion, that is one of the true reasons GW has been successful, the fact that it is a game where you can play online with your friends OR do most/all of it by yourself. At any rate, I certainly have very little desire to be forced to play with random (and often incompetent) strangers. If you want it to be a true social experience, where you play with only human players, that is exactly what PvP is all about. PvP is a hell of a lot of fun, but its easy to get tired of all the asshats you run into, so I for one am very glad I can take a break from that and play on my own without being at a huge disadvantage.

I would have to agree with this. I have a wife and a 20 month old kid who needs attention all the time. So my playing consists of getting on the game, playing until for a little bit, then leaving my character afk in some safe area until I can come back. Sometimes this is 5 minutes sometimes it is a day later, it all depends. If I could only play with other people to complete anything in the game I would not be able to play. Yes I like to play with other people and I do whenever my kid is asleep, but while he is awake I simply do not have the option of playing with other people, so I am glad that GW has structured the game the way that they did.

upier · Dec 01, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

hi Upier,

you have a point there as well (and sorry for my slightly over board reply early). I guess there is a push and a pull effect. Easy mode and limited new content pushed players out of the game. Do you think that if HM would have made it more challenging and a real muti player game, players would have pulled back in? It would be a self fulfilling prophecy - lot's of people playing PUGs would invite more people playing in PUGs.

Ciao,

Tim

Had HM had the power to pull people back in or keep us entertained for ages - it would have come with a price tag.
Because there is no way that you can do a GW HM worth playing without completely redoing all the monsters in it. That would take time, that would take money and I don't see that happening as free content.
(Which I actually wouldn't mind. They could have made it into a budget game (something like $19.99) - with all 3 HM's included, new quests, new monster groups, possibly even new armours/additional titles and they could have had a winner on their hands.)
Despite dividing the player base even further (which makes it even less appealing in the multiplayer sense) - it would at least be a good version of HM.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 01, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

H/H is preferable only because the process to find other people that want to do what you're doing and actually know how to play is too lengthy and hard.

Solution: improve party search.

Ellix Cantero · Dec 01, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

So I joined my first PUG in about a year the other night. I was in the Iron Mines of Molodune with my ele. PUGs are still god awful. We managed to lose the mission thanks to our retard Dervish party leader and his 3 'leet' Discord heros.

I'm pretty sure after having gone back through H/H and getting infused that my ele could kill everything in that damn mission solo besides the Mursaat bosses.

This was in normal mode. I have no intention of pugging hard mode unless I'm really in the mood for some pain and mental anguish. If it was harder it would just mean harder fails for the PUGs that do happen.

PUGs died for a reason.