Curse

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

E/any shattersteam pressure.

12+3+1 water magic
12+1 fire magic
3 energy storage

1. Glyph of Immolation (Fire 13)
2. Shatterstone {Elite} (Water 16)
3. Glowing Ice (Water 16)
4. Steam (Water 16)
5. Glowing Gaze (Fire 13)
6. Water attunement (Water 16)
7. Aura of Restoration (Energy Storage 3)
8. Open slot, see below.

Keep enchantments up, press 1-5, repeat. Sometimes you'll need to choose between leading with a blind (heavy pressure on your team) or using steam to coincide with shatterstones detonation (trying to catch healers offguard). Other than that it pretty much runs itself.

Some details about the build.

From shatterstone landing till shatterstone finishing, you deal 395 damage. The whole chain does 523 damage, and is repeatable every 11 seconds, equalling about 48 dps. No energy problems.
You also apply a nice cover hex for your team mates, as removing shatterstone is largely pointless.
Plus of course the blind and burning conditions.
All in all you'll have enemy monks giving their whole bar a good work out all on your own.

The open slot is really open. I run flame djinns haste, armor of mist, mantra of concentration, gaze of contempt, draw conditions and freezing gust situationally.
Depending what you put in the open slot, you may also wish to swap out aura of restoration. While it is fairly effective on the build, equalling about 3 pips of health regen when you aren't being interrupted, obviously it's the spell that has the least synergy with the rest of the build. For example, switching aura of restoration for armor of mist and adding mantra of concentration actually improves your durability.

Of course there are obvious weaknesses. It's very easy to prot against, you'll have to find or create unprotected targets to maintain your damage output. The blind is much easier to interrupt and on a longer recharge than an air ele blind. Your spells are heavily synergistic, if one gets shut down, at least 1 other loses a lot of effectiveness.
These last 2 in particular mean magebanes can be quite devastating. There are ways to deal with being pressured by an r/mo, but they are certainly your biggest problem.

Give it a try, see what you think.

Tab · Dec 22, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

If you must spike with Shatterstone, just use:
[skill]shatterstone[/skill][skill]vapor blade[/skill][skill]freezing gust[/skill][skill]blurred vision[/skill][skill]augury of death[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]water attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

It's not a spike build.

Tab · Dec 22, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I would say that casting a chain of damage skills in a short space of time on a single target makes a (bad) spike.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 22, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

It's not a spike build.

Shatterstone is a (support-) spike skill. Trying to pressure with it isn't particularly good; it'd be like trying to pump out DPS with an SP 'sin.

If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

I guess you didn't read the summary all the way through then. No problem, I'll go over it again quickly. It's designed to be spammable. The damage output is equivalent to a constant 24 pips of health degen, but the damage does come in a spiky fashion, while applying conditions and covering hexes, making it a bit harder to cope with than pure degen, if you could even stack degen that high.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Shatterstone is a (support-) spike skill. Trying to pressure with it isn't particularly good; it'd be like trying to pump out DPS with an SP 'sin.

If you want a pressure-based Ele, Mind Blast beckons.

Ok, I'm hating to sound like the super defensive build guy here, but you are judging the build based on your past experience with one of the skills in it, forcing me into that position. The build isn't 1. shatterstone, 2-8. other stuff. 48 dps is actually fairly significant pressure.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 22, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

I guess you didn't read the summary all the way through then. No problem, I'll go over it again quickly. It's designed to be spammable. The damage output is equivalent to a constant 24 pips of health degen, but the damage does come in a spiky fashion, while applying conditions and covering hexes, making it a bit harder to cope with than pure degen, if you could even stack degen that high.

48 dps is bad.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.

Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

48 dps is bad.
It may be good for a Water guy, but it's still bad - a warrior can match that without batting an eyelid.

Besides, you've said it yourself - you frontload all your skills into an initial chain, then waitin on recharges. That is the definition of a spike. The difference is, ibreak's build frontloads more damage alongside DW, as well as minor shutdown, and can feasibly get kills.

I'm sorry to come off as rude, but you are being ignorant. Warriors do not do 48 sustained dps. During a spike they do, spamming a skill every attack, with an IAS up, they might climb as high as 60. This build is at 133 during a spike. In the meantime, it's simply dealing more damage than the warrior, and maintaining it forever, unlike the vapor blade. I'm sorry, but shatterstone/vaporblade is where this started out. I improved on it.

And by the way, this could apply a deep wound if the team didn't have another source too o.0.

moko · Dec 22, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

12+3+1 water magic

first mistake.

Quote:

E/any shattersteam pressure.

Quote:

2. Shatterstone {Elite} (Water 16)

second mistake.

your build, is a spike, and not a pressure build.

if you think that shatterstone at it's two cast is a pressure skill, you are wrong. but this is not really connected to the build.

i actually DO like the build. how would the energy be if you dropped the sup water?

if this is for AB, i would personally throw in augury, just to finish all targets.

aura of resto is already a terrible skill, i would change that for your utility slot and take augury last, or get a rez etc etc bla bla.

i really just dont like how much this equals a sin. it *could* be fragile.

the spike takes too long.

thanks for the build though, i'll make sure to test it, always good to play something new. :P

<-- shatterstone fan anyways.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 22, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

I'm sorry to come off as rude, but you are being ignorant. Warriors do not do 48 sustained dps.

I don't mean to be rude, but that is ignorant.
A quick test, ran out to the damage dude - 14 Axe mastery, Frenzy, Penetrating Chop (a terribaed attack) and Executioner's Strike (a decent attack) and overall (... letting Frenzy slip a couple of times

) I got 49 dps.
With a bad build.

Ok?

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

OK. The whole chain from start to finish including aftercast takes 8.25 seconds to cast. It recharges in 11 seconds. The energy management is sufficient to spam it forever. That's not a spike, can we please stop judging the whole build as though it was trying to be shatterstone/vaporblade?

If you don't like the superior rune it's not a problem. I'm not having any trouble with 515 health, but 580 is obviously better. Energy won't be a problem with a minor, the sup is just for damage, nothing else changes from 14 to 16.

Aura of restoration isn't terrible on a spammer. As I said, it's worth 3 pips of health regen. 1 cycle = 60 health. But yes, there's definitely room for a better way to help your monks, there just isn't a whole lot of room attribute wise. Blurred vision is likely your best option.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I don't mean to be rude, but that is ignorant.
A quick test, ran out to the damage dude - 14 Axe mastery, Frenzy, Penetrating Chop (a terribaed attack) and Executioner's Strike (a decent attack) and overall (... letting Frenzy slip a couple of times

) I got 49 dps.
With a bad build.

Ok?

Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 22, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.

Oh, and Prot Spirit doesn't nullify your damage?

Please, don't bring counters into this, caster damage is stupidly easy to defend against.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I'm done arguing, I'm pretty sure you are just arguing for the sake of it now. We both know which has more counters, and what kind of frequency they can be used at. Face the facts, without an IAS active, warrior dps is about 25-30 on an unprotected and immobile target. This is higher.

Warriors bring other advantages, but don't say 48 dps is low, especially not on a midline character who needs very little support to deal his damage and brings minor utility, with the freedom in skill slots, energy management, and time management, to add more utility.

You don't like the build, fine. Others have seen it and will try it.

LightningHell · Dec 22, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

Because perma frenzy on a target that never blocks or kites is representative of warrior sustained dps. As I said, a warrior might get up to 60 dps during a spike, when this build is at 133.

What kind of warriors do you play with?

1) Spikes aren't calculated by DPS.

2) A Warrior does about 260, DW inclusive, on a "spike" that takes about 2.8 seconds. Not counting the first attack activation time, that's about 1.9 seconds. How does that equate 60 DPS?

3) ...How did you get 133 DPS?

4) Why the hell are we talking about counters? Everything has a counter.

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

What kind of warriors do you play with?

1) Spikes aren't calculated by DPS.

2) A Warrior does about 260, DW inclusive, on a "spike" that takes about 2.8 seconds. Not counting the first attack activation time, that's about 1.9 seconds. How does that equate 60 DPS?

3) ...How did you get 133 DPS?

4) Why the hell are we talking about counters? Everything has a counter.

If I add augury I do 495 in the same span of time. I don't add augury because other classes bring better deep wounds.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 22, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

Face the facts, without an IAS active, warrior dps is about 25-30 on an unprotected and immobile target. This is higher.

Wow, a character using his entire skillbar can do more damage than a warrior using no skills at all?
Never would've guessed that.
/slowclap

Another Child · Dec 22, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Wow, a character using his entire skillbar can do more damage than a warrior using no skills at all?
Never would've guessed that.
/slowclap

Oh I thought you used executioners. No, without any skills, warrior dps is about 20. Which is more than a caster not using skills. Never would've guessed that.

LightningHell · Dec 22, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Child

If I add augury I do 595 in the same span of time. I don't add augury because other classes bring better deep wounds.

I don't see Augury, so that doesn't count. So you're implying without Augury, you're doing 495 damage.

Explain. You have 105 (0 seconds)+53 (1 second)+104 (1 second)+44 (1 second)+Burning for 4 seconds (42/3, or 56/4) (DPS over time). That equals 350 damage over 3 seconds, or 364 over 4. Hardly the 495 you said.

Quote:

Warriors bring other advantages, but don't say 48 dps is low, especially not on a midline character who needs very little support to deal his damage and brings minor utility, with the freedom in skill slots, energy management, and time management, to add more utility.

Note that using a Superior, you'll probably need more saving than the Warrior, while the Warrior is still draining opponent resources. While this Elementalist deals more "damage" to the opponent, the rest of the damage that would be dealt by a Warrior is mitigated by other factors - shutdown, kiting, whatnot. All this requires active effort by the opposition. In contrast, the Elementalist isn't really much of a threat in an organized environment, and although it's harder to defend against, nobody really cares.

Quote:

Oh I thought you used executioners. No, without any skills, warrior dps is about 20. Which is more than a caster not using skills. Never would've guessed that.

You joke. An Axe warrior's DPS with an IAS on is 40, with a superior rune. Granted, this is a bit risky, but then you're a caster who's running a sup rune.