Curse

Tripolityx · Sep 28, 2008, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Ya you can use PvX to pick up some ideas. But all builds you actually could benefit for your own use are those which you make yourself ^^

Seri · Sep 28, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Pvxwiki for me just destroyed Guild Wars... I know, it gives new players builds and so on... But as i said, Guild Wars is not the game as it was before pvxwiki. Now everybody on pvp/pve play wiki builds, no matter how bad are they, but they are rated. Pvxwiki created gimmicks and cuttie cooters. Look for example at HA/HB or RA. Every single person runs wiki build

No, they run builds that were on observer mode, that were put on pvx at a later date.

My Lipgloss is Cool · Sep 28, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I've been playing for a while, and I sort-of use PvX

I find a build with a good concept, and take the crap out of it. I use PvX for inspiration more than the builds. They have some really good concepts on there that are often overlooked because they were poorly built.

When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it.

Lyle2000 · Sep 28, 2008, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

...
When I first started PvPing (Mostly RA/AB with the very rare TA), I got my builds from PvX, because I had no idea what I was doing and, although many builds are not good, the Great-rated builds worked well enough to get me enough experience to get into it.

I can't agree with this more. For the first time in any online RPG I am getting excited about PvP.

Raul the Rampant · Sep 28, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Every single person runs wiki build

If everyone runs the same thing is that not balanced? Pitting two overpowered gimmicks against each other cancels the overpoweredness (at least for that match), does it not? Pitting crap against crap would have a similar effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle2000

Sounds like it increased the base skill level.

I think you meant "Sounds like it increased the impact of the players' base skill level on the outcome of the match." If so I would tend to agree, because that's what everyone seeking more balance wants: the person running the build to be more important than the build itself.

And yes, like so many have already said I, too, think it can be a decent resource for finding a place to start. Certainly many builds on there are terrible, but sooner or later people figure this out and either find a new one or adjust it. People don't continue running something that doesn't work forever... at the very least they find something that's marginally less ineffective.

360° · Sep 28, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taisayacho

QFT. I'm pretty active on there, but I do notice that, for example, if the admins really like a build, they'll actually remove votes that are unfavorable.

Noticed this too. They should get better staff.

glacialphoenix · Sep 28, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

I don't think it's entirely bad. You don't have to copy and paste PvX builds for it to be remotely useful... sometimes it's a good way of looking at other skill bars and deriving inspiration from them.

Teutonic Paladin · Sep 28, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taisayacho

QFT. I'm pretty active on there, but I do notice that, for example, if the admins really like a build, they'll actually remove votes that are unfavorable.
example: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/...ed_PvE_Paragon
Go to "rate," scroll to the bottom.

You should probably remove unfavorable votes from the best build in the game.

Everyone who thinks that PvX is the reason for the lack of diversity in builds hasn't been here very long. PvX is a relatively new creation, and people have been running the same builds they seen on obs mode since it was created.

Magikarp · Sep 28, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

PvX is a great way to get started if you're newer, and here are a few reasons why..

1: a lot of the builds really are mainstream meta builds, or at least very popular making them at least decent.

2: looking through a good bit of the builds, which will be easy because its all categorized so well, will help give you a better understanding of what others may run, or alternatives to what you could run, as well as strategies and tactics for how you would proceed to utilize your character.

3: If you need a build for a specific task, or want something new for an arena, a lot of the time its faster and easier to search there, rather than a fansite or forum.

4: the builds are already there for your choosing. you don't have to run a gauntlet to find them, and theres no huge learning curve to understand their use.

5: no elitist. what i mean by that, is that you can play at your own will, choose at your own will. no one is there to call you names, put down your skill level, or disrupt your good time.

i've been playing for 3 years, and i go to pvx, and i could care less what any elitist here thinks. i get fun looking builds, or even the "trash" or "testing" builds, just for RA/AB fun etc.

oh and another thing, for someone like me who just got 2 new computers, pvx is great for the tons of templates to help you get your builds back :P

Lyle2000 · Sep 28, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul the Rampant

...I think you meant "Sounds like it increased the impact of the players' base skill level on the outcome of the match." If so I would tend to agree, because that's what everyone seeking more balance wants: the person running the build to be more important than the build itself.
...

Yes, thats just what I was thinking.

ele pl · Sep 28, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

If everyone runs the same thing is that not balanced? Pitting two overpowered gimmicks against each other cancels the overpoweredness (at least for that match), does it not? Pitting crap against crap would have a similar effect.

I didn't say that its overpowered. I said that its boring, seeing all players' skills and builds are the same each time i enter pvp. Why from over 1200 skills only 300-400 are used?

Raul the Rampant · Sep 28, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

I didn't say that its overpowered. I said that its boring, seeing all players' skills and builds are the same each time i enter pvp. Why from over 1200 skills only 300-400 are used?

I wasn't trying to something was over- /under-powered, simply arguing that everyone having the same thing is balanced regardless of how people perceive the skills relative to others. Yes, it's a shame that so many skills never see use, but that's the casualty of balance... fact is the majority of the unused skills were unused before PvX and would have continued to be unused whether PvX showed up or not. If the skills themselves cannot be properly balanced the next best thing is to ensure that everyone uses the same builds because that in itself provides balance. PvX may have contributed somewhat to the speed of this trend more recently, but it started long before that site popped up (as has already been mentioned), and thus I don't feel it has done any harm that would not have occurred naturally. In fact, I'd rather face an opponent with a cookie cutter build that may work 33% of the time than a completely random build that works <10% of the time; it's slightly more challenging.

Age · Sep 28, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

PvX is good for Heros if you don't know much about that profession on how to play it.I would use it for farming or to get a pvp build.It is best for player to but together thier own bars this way they are learning.Who knows how some of the PvX build work.

It is not best to look on PvX if you are just starting out.

-Lotus- · Sep 28, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

You should probably remove unfavorable votes from the best build in the game.

the admins remove votes from builds like this even though they clearly have a reason. the wiki build has GFtE, anyone who ahas played an imbagon knows putting any adren skills on your bar other than SY is a terrible idea and wouldn't consider GFtE. this is the sort of thing they do all the time.

Lyle2000 · Sep 29, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

...
It is not best to look on PvX if you are just starting out.

I disagree here. I think PvX is best when you are starting out. there are so many skills that creating a build from scratch, especially a pvp build, is a very daunting task. Using PvX gives a player a starting point on what is a capable build. From that build they can tweak it or us it as inspiration for thier own great build.

moriz · Sep 29, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

what PvX do well is that it weeds out builds based on their synergy's strength.

anyone can make a build that has synergy by just looking at the skills descriptions. however, how strong that synergy is can only be found by testing, or by comparing it to similar builds.

for example, here's a build template that has some synergy:
crippling slash, gash, rip enchantment

the synergy should be easy to see: rip enchantment will give the sword warrior a way to inflict deep wound without going crippling slash or sever artery. it also allows the warrior to cover a deep wound with bleeding and cripple. the synergy is fairly strong.

however, that synergy is not particularly useful or practical. stopping for 1 second+aftercast on a warrior is simply not practical, and it certainly does nothing about a sword warrior's greatest weakness: a single copy of restore conditions will nullify his pressure easily.

another example would be a hammer warrior with pious assault. now the hammer warrior can dish out a deep wound and +damage without a KD. however, the high energy cost of pious assault makes it impractical for a hammer warrior to use.

PvX is great for the purpose of weeding out those builds that have non-useful and/or impractical synergy, and is also great for a beginner to learn what is good and what is not.

kai4321 · Sep 29, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I agree with Magikarp. If you are a newbie and say you just got lvl 20, you don't know the game yet. I mean you know a few skills but I can sure say that for me I didn't know many skills from my proffesion and so I couldn't make it up. Pvx is great because you get builds from it which are mainstream and are solid. Then, when you are more experience, you can change it about and make it better.

gerlin · Sep 29, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I find that PvXwiki is a great source of information and a great way to let "newbies" experience GW mechanics and allow them to play without too much frustration not being able to get past a mission.
Although it is true that some builds are bad and that sometimes players even fail with pvxwiki builds.

I , as a somewhat experienced player, use PvX to get inspiration and ideas or tweaks to other builds, i rarely use build exactly but use the basics and throw in some changes to suit my style.

There is one thing about PvXwiki i think should change. They should stop allowing PvP builds. People put lame cookiecutter builds for pvp what allows annoying brats to kill and make fun of pro's who use a homemade build. If you take away this, RA's skill will worsen but the players will improve faster.

Bobby2 · Sep 29, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerlin

I find that PvXwiki is a great source of information and a great way to let "newbies" experience GW mechanics and allow them to play without too much frustration not being able to get past a mission.
Although it is true that some builds are bad and that sometimes players even fail with pvxwiki builds.

I , as a somewhat experienced player, use PvX to get inspiration and ideas or tweaks to other builds, i rarely use build exactly but use the basics and throw in some changes to suit my style.

Nom nom, no disagreement yet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerlin

There is one thing about PvXwiki i think should change. They should stop allowing PvP builds. People put lame cookiecutter builds for pvp what allows annoying brats to kill and make fun of pro's who use a homemade build. If you take away this, RA's skill will worsen but the players will improve faster.

I lol'd. Brats are annoying, but they need the tools to play the game if they are to ever build experience - and that means decent builds. Don't rage because you
- were off guard
- got cleanly outplayed
- used a build that wasn't up to handling said lame cookie cutter build (your bad for not adapting to the environment properly

)

Age · Sep 30, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle2000

I disagree here. I think PvX is best when you are starting out. there are so many skills that creating a build from scratch, especially a pvp build, is a very daunting task. Using PvX gives a player a starting point on what is a capable build. From that build they can tweak it or us it as inspiration for thier own great build.

It is not great if you are just starting out from lvl 1 to 20 back in my day we didn't have pvx wiki.The best way to learn what works is be experimenting and in pvp that is what RA is for.