Curse

Xenomortis · Apr 08, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Hmm... 'twas a bit dismissive of me.

Death Nova is basically an energy sink and bloody irritating for a human, so that can go. If you put Foul Feast in that spot, you'll be able to keep conditions off your team mates, but they'll be stuck on you. Certainly doable, depending on what conditions you're going to be facing.
I'm not sure if mindbender is worth while. Yes, minions take a good while to raise, but you don't really need to raise them instantly. Still potentially useful though.

If we're looking at using AP with Signet of Corruption, then I'd probably go with:
[build prof=N/A curses=3 Death=12+1+3 Deadly=9 Soul=9+1][Assassin's Promise][Signet of Corruption][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Bone Horror][Blood of the Master][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Foul Feast][Plague Sending][/build]

I've chosen Bone Horrors (SR 10 breaks even with them) but if you're confident with Assassin's Promise, Shambling Horrors are potentially a more energy efficient option.
One thing I'm a bit dubious about with this build, is that it'll require the user to be very efficient, having to manage conditions, minions and cast Assassin's Promise on dying enemies to get the most out of it.
Also, this suggestion and your previous two all lack a res. Given the current team setup, this means the only hard res is carried by the warrior and that is perhaps a flaw.
Still, I think that would work, though I'm not sure how efficiently and I don't think it'd be as easy as the others.

Edit: Looking at my own suggestion, I keep thinking "why". Why would I ever want to run that. The only thing meriting Assassin's Promise is Signet of Corruption, so I might as well bring Signet of Lost Souls and go back to 12+1 Soul Reaping. Unless of course, it's absolutely vital to maintain constant uptime with EBSoH.
Really, I just don't think Mindbender is worth the trouble on a MM bar.

Saraneth · Apr 08, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I'm not sure if mindbender is worth while.

-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

One thing I'm a bit dubious about with this build, is that it'll require the user to be very efficient, having to manage conditions, minions and cast Assassin's Promise on dying enemies to get the most out of it.

Incentive behind [[Mindbender] is to reduce the time spent on minions, so that you can concentrate on performing other tasks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Also, this suggestion and your previous two all lack a res.

If Moloch would consent to running [[Foul Feast] on the Orders, there wouldn't be an issue with having a hard rez on the MM. Otherwise, placing [[Foul Feast] on the MM and the hard rez on the orders may serve as a compromise to his "anti-bitch Orders" sentiment.

Moloch Vein · Apr 09, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Me and Jon discussed this... we actually discussed AP-ing the MM as well. Thing is though that with a triple AP configuration (!) this build looks EXTREMELY "gimmicky"... and I'm not really sure if it's worth it, either, since you lose out on many support options on the MM.

Mindbender is good enough with no ISR option. 16/24 uptime isn't bad.

Just a thought:

[build prof=N/Mo deathm=12+1+3 soulr=12+1 heal=3][empathic removal][foul feast][animate bone fiend][animate bone horror][blood of the master][ebon battle standard of honor][mindbender][renew life][/build]

I actually do like the idea of Mindbending the MM. It'll make minion making a breeze. Oh and I just like Renew Life for some reason despite being a touch skill; you can slap on another resurrection option.

Xenomortis · Apr 09, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Foul Feast is your only form of energy management. Can you really run fiends with just that?
If you have Mindbender, I'd use [Resurrection Chant].

Moloch Vein · Apr 09, 2009, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Foul Feast is your only form of energy management. Can you really run fiends with just that?
If you have Mindbender, I'd use [Resurrection Chant].

I don't know. I probably can't. Still the MM has 13SR which is more than those builds usually run.

But yes it's a bit harsh. MM bars always seem to get so crowded.

Xenomortis · Apr 09, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I think for a lot of places, you might be able to forego Foul Feast and just run Empathic Removal (or perhaps Signet of Removal). That would leave a slot open for something like SoLS.
In condition heavy areas, Foul Feast would probably be too useful, but you'll be likely to recieving a net energy gain with it in that case.

Shursh · Apr 14, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

so has there been some consensus on this team build?

dual AP ebon sin spikers? OoU MM? Dervish Norn Form w/ mimicry? or are all of these good options?

Just wondering

elk · Apr 15, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Regarding the volfen blessing, I'm assuming a majority of the skills while not in the form aren't a huge concern so as the OP had originally tried to do with several other builds, why not also add air of superiorty for the recharge chance? Seems like there was a fair concern on getting the mimicry/AP to trigger and would imagine the recharge chance from air would be something else useful to offset.

elk

AtomicMew · Apr 26, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

1-1-X.

The Wolf Blessing idea was cute, but there have been a million and one variations on this theme on pvx, and all of them have been trashed.

Let me explain why:

The problem with this type of build is exactly the strength you purport. E.g., massive usage of pve skills, which require real players. There is pretty much no where that can't be run 2 man hero-way besides elite areas HM which this build wont able to complete, anyway.

Compared to the UWSC build:
Sure, UWSC is much less general than "Steriodway," but you can expect to run a highly-specific UWSC build and find an 8 man team in reasonable time because it is meta and efficient. It takes, ideally, <15 minutes to UWSC (whereas an 8-man "balanced" team would takes 2+ hours).

Compared to 2-man discordway:
A build like this does not significantly increase the efficiency of completing any area in the game, and so, it will never be meta. You'd gain MAYBE 5 min in speed compared to 2-man discordway for a VQ. Unfortunately, that's completely lost, considering it would probably take you +1 hour just to get a group.

So really, this build has no place. It's just a nice theorycraft, but ultimately, will never be used.

Grim Lich · Apr 27, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

I've never understood the hate on 10 fiend OoU. But I think the original build is fine. Throw on Maso and you're fine energy wise. Traversc has a point though, it would be very hard to get a full group of this. Maybe a 2 person - 6 heroes alternitive?