Curse

SnipiousMax · Jun 22, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I have played one, or did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I tried one out, because personally i'm sick of dying to them

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Considering you're entire experience with Touch Ranger's is limited to your recent experience....

Stop skimming my responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I did not say that Virulence build makes Touch Rangers uber, what I said was that they CAN spread conditions, even though you all claimed they could not. Okay? I'm merely discrediting your claims.

Even assuming that anyone would want to run it... It still requires a condtion to be applied before you can use it. It is a multi step process to get to where you can "apply" a condtion. Since this requires skillslots that most TR's don't bother wasting, I think its safe to say my comment was accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

did you only read what you disagreed with and nit pick it..obviously you didn't really read what I wrote.

I only comment where I had something to add. Everything else was covered by other posters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N.

You keep bringing this up. Cripple is devestating to Warrior and TR alike. I don't know how you are using Plauge Touch when you can't catch someone. The only reasons you would be able to use it, is that someone is not kiting (which they should be), or another warrior is attacking you (which they should not be), or you have a NPC near by. Two of those depend on bad players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Touchers aren't so much a problem in GvG, we've covered that. Thanks for using that as your *only* foot to stand on, repeatedly.

*Ahem*

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Playing in RA with a standard team-dependant Meta-Game build is only going to breed frustration and annoyance anyway. With so many gimmicks, you almost have to play a gimmick to get anywhere. In GvG and HA, touch Rangers are laughed at. In TA and AB, touch rangers are easily dealt with.

^ That's been my stance. And you've not given us anything definative to prove otherwise. Any experience you've had since you've started this arguement is going to be slanted to your opinion. The whole, "Touch Rangers rock because I've played them and they're overpowered because I say so" isn't gonna wash with many.

gabrial heart · Jun 22, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Wow, this thread is still going strong eh? I remeber not to long ago when the MM was to overpowered deal until someone suggested veratice gaze as a nice counter to an unsuspecting mm.

We took our all-mighty touch ranger into scrimmage against each class and each class handled the all-mighty touch ranger quite easily. The only one that had to do a bit of mental juggling was the warrior, but he still managed to beat (not pwn) the TR in a fairly heated match. As long as there are enough counters to TR's (which imo any build that monopolizes one attribute is doomed to forever be a n00b build) there is absolutely no need to nerf them.

Wish i could close this one, it's turned into a flaming session.

BoondockSaint · Jun 22, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Wish i could close this one, it's turned into a flaming session.[/QUOTE]

serioulsy, ive been glancing at this post for the past few days and its really getting crazy. My ranger has always been my favorite and first charcter, by now ANYONE that plays pvp should bring one counter to a touch ranger, as mentioned a million times there are planty for all classes except maybe the warrior who should say screw it and let the team deal with the TR. I've only been to the HoH twice and won once but Ive never seen a touch ranger in there and if i did my pindown, witch can be used for alought more then a TR, and posion will kill quickly. I have played a touch ranger in fort aspen were they are a force to be reconed with but so are healing monks, EOE bombers (saw this the other day was sweet

well played shock warriors and so on.

now that that is out of the way and Im sorry if i repeated other posts, heres my speculation on the whole, just about everyone can agree that a decent mesmer is a TR worst nightmare yet in PVE, from what Ive seen, mersmer is one of the lest played classes, since fort aspen is a PVE arena the TR main predator is usually not there and if one is there they will most likly be running an illusion slashing build that a good TR can win against. Again this is just from my experience in fort aspen and I'm sorry if this was already brought up but I didnt want to read through 10+ pages or bs.

Ismoke · Jun 22, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

my counter to a TR

1.pin down or crippling shot
2.apply poison or poison arrow
3.hunters shot

this is what ive used, usually they run the otherway> LOL

Im a R/W by the way, oh i didnt read the whole post but im sure someone has mentioned these skills already.

If they cant get to you they cant hurt yah>>>>>>>>

jummeth · Jun 23, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

tbh, malaise > touchies
surge > touchies
ice prison > touchies
e-lord > touchies

There are 4 easy ways to counter touch rangers.

1. E-denial
2. Cripple/speed slowdown
3. Shutdown (through skills or through KD)
4. Spike

If your team doesn't pack at least 1or2 if not all then as a TA team, you will run into trouble.
Of course you must kite, however, you knew that already.

Team of 4 touch rangers? No problem, Wither/malaise is the easiest way to own them, they have no hex removal and if they can't keep their DPS up, they die very quickly. OoB means that they have 3-4 touches, however they just took a 20% sac. Malaise hurts, since they only have 3 e-regen anyway, same with e-lord, although the duration is a tad short.

Devil Lil Assassin · Jun 25, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

The biggest problem isn't one TR, even when i play my whinpy Assassin i can kill one touch ranger in a fair fight. The problem is when you get full teams of touchers, it's not impossible to beat a full team of touchers, but it is very difficult and takes alot of skill and teamwork. As long as a team has at least one person to cripple them and 1 or 2 to kite them touch rangers die, it's that easy. This thread is 14 pages right now of people arguing the EXACT same thing over and over again. I have the answer for it all.

A CRIPPLED TOUCHER IS A DEAD TOUCHER!!

Even if they have defensive skills almost all cripple skills recharge faster than defensive skills, so cripple them and they die, i find it hillarious when i see a touch ranger comming at my ranger, crippling shot / pin down, run away, poison arrow / apply poison ( though i think apply poison takes too long) for degen and a couple attack skills=dead touch ranger without any dmg done to you, except maybe vamp gaze if they have it....OH NO!! lmfao I don't understand why everyone has so many problems with touchers. As i said before the ONLY problem with TRs is when you have more than one comming at you. A single touch ranger on his own is one of the easiest kills in the PVP game.

IT'S THAT SIMPLE PEOPLE!

And yes I realize I'm saying the same thing other people have said, but obviously people are still whinning about touch rangers so apparently it needs to be again and again for them to get it through their thick skulls.

Oh yea I almost forgot Eles, Eles are one of the most effective ways to kill touch rangers especially if you have a E/R or E/Me, E/R have a bow in 2nd weapon set, hit cripple go back to reg weapons and nuke away, E/Me is even easier imagined burden is all it takes, by the time it wears off any fire ele does plenty of dmg to own the TR, and earth eles have so many knock-down dmg spells it's not even funny. There are TONS of build to counter touchers, I think people just get a kick out of bitching about it.

Have a great day everyone

Zui · Jun 25, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

You know, I just had this amazing run in RA...

We had;

An Assassin/Warrior, a Assassin/Ranger, a Warrior/Monk, and myself, a Mo/Me boonprot.

We had a 10 run streak in RA, all but 2 were flawless 3 were against teams with at least one TR, both against the TR containing teams were flawless. We got to TA, and amazingly faced a 4 touch ranger team. It was a guild team. They were all running the proper skills, and played it fairly well. They first mobbed our W/Mo, who stood there and hit Healing Hands, then he died. They then went after me, I kited them. They split off onto different targets since chasing just me wasn't working (somewhere our whammo was ressed and got dropped again). Amazingly, we won in under 2 minutes.

Oh, might I add we had absolutly no snares? The closest thing we had to a counter would be energy denial, which was my Energy Drain lmao.

This match was pretty much a 3 vs 1 against touch rangers, and against what they're best at beating, melee charactars. Our warrior/monk dying because he didn't know how to kite, or to kite at all, is the perfect example of new, inexperienced players loosing to them. The fact that a random team with only two damage dealers and no real counters to Touch Rangers managed to beat an organised guild team of Touch Rangers is really a tribute to the 'issue' at hand.

Overpowered? I think not.

floor69 · Jun 25, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

A sort of double 100 blades = Triple axe, or cyclone axe, sadly 100 blades is a sword skill >.<

Devil Lil Assassin · Jun 25, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

You know, I just had this amazing run in RA...

We had;

An Assassin/Warrior, a Assassin/Ranger, a Warrior/Monk, and myself, a Mo/Me boonprot.

We had a 10 run streak in RA, all but 2 were flawless 3 were against teams with at least one TR, both against the TR containing teams were flawless. We got to TA, and amazingly faced a 4 touch ranger team. It was a guild team. They were all running the proper skills, and played it fairly well. They first mobbed our W/Mo, who stood there and hit Healing Hands, then he died. They then went after me, I kited them. They split off onto different targets since chasing just me wasn't working (somewhere our whammo was ressed and got dropped again). Amazingly, we won in under 2 minutes.

Oh, might I add we had absolutly no snares? The closest thing we had to a counter would be energy denial, which was my Energy Drain lmao.

This match was pretty much a 3 vs 1 against touch rangers, and against what they're best at beating, melee charactars. Our warrior/monk dying because he didn't know how to kite, or to kite at all, is the perfect example of new, inexperienced players loosing to them. The fact that a random team with only two damage dealers and no real counters to Touch Rangers managed to beat an organised guild team of Touch Rangers is really a tribute to the 'issue' at hand.

Overpowered? I think not.

A touch ranger build takes little to no skill to run, i have done it before and never will again, in my opinion toucher ranger is as boring as IWAY. Although a mostly melee team beating a team of 4 touchers is never impossible, all it proves is that the touch team had no organisation or teamwork, cause if they did when you were kiting them the two that broke off would have gone on to intercept you instead of following so you now have two in front of you and two behind. You can still get away of course but if they were an organised team you guys would most likely not have won that match, not saying you couldn't have won, but beating them in under 2 minutes just proves exactly how unorganised that team really was. So bassicly my point here is that just because you faced a Guil Team does NOT mean they are a good/organised team.

war adrenaline · Jun 26, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

i would flame but am not going to..just so u all know..
quit female dog 'ing about touch rangers, diversion kills it, period.
to all those noobs. its a mesmer skill..look it up.

artay · Jun 27, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

The answer to what you seek is right in front of you....the humble...Hydromancer! Got seven touchies runnin after you? *deep freeze*. Got one that just wont quit? *shard storm*. Want to really piss them off? *mind freeze*

wankey · Jun 29, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Yeah Touch Rangers need big nerfing. It's pretty easy to nerf them too. Make touch rangers unable to touch avoided and evaded and blocked, reduces a lot of their effectiveness yet keeps them in the game.

I haven't yet seen a warrior that can kill a touch ranger one on one, we're pretty much useless against them. Really pisses me off. I can't avoid their touches, yet they avoid my axe. All I can do is knock them down, and run.

And fighting them is completely boring. You KNOW what theyre going to do. It's like, okay touch ranger, great. He's gonna come up to me, touch touch touch. When I try to hit him, he gets whirling defense up. Bugger. Nothing to do but wait till I die or run away. If Anet thinks that's fun, then they really should play they're own game.

Most of the game's builds aren't so bugged up. Poeple say shock warriors are overpowered, but at least a good tank warrior can kill them. Lightning Eles were once the craze, but now they feel really weak (still good in teams though). But Touch rangers are just completely buggered. Fighting Shock wars, light eles, even minion masters feels natural. If you get beat, it feels normal. Touch rangers just ruin the game.

Lambentviper · Jun 29, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

hah touch rangers can be beat by most builds if you know what your up against. Notice that touch rangers have no hex removal....and need to be right up in their targets face to be useful...HMm....im thinking Etheral Burden + Conjure Phantasm + Accumulated Pain, if i was a mesmer.

anything else i would just cripple em or wait!! I COULD USE 1 SKILL TO SHUT THEM DOWN!! BLACKOUT

wow, that was hard

and for warriors, any hammer warrior can easily take down a touch, including bunny thumpers

Lambentviper · Jun 29, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

I remain firmly of the opinion that Touch Rangers are the best thing to happen to RA. TRs weed out the irredeemably stupid from the slightly clever, which is a boon for PvP as a whole. TRs can be countered with exactly one skill if you put a little thought into it (left as an exercise for the reader). No change to Expertise necessary.

so lemme ask you how Touch RAngers weed out the idiots, when all you need to play a Touch Ranger is two fingers and..welll...i gues thats really all you need. My cat could to it if i just dangle some catnip on top of the keyboard.

If you ask me, all it does it gravitate the idiots to running nothing but Touchers in RA, completely the opposite of what you thought

Evilsod · Jun 29, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Unless you're built to take down touch rangers, then you don't stand a whole lot of chance. Cripple doesn't hardly faze me on my W/N, it certainly doesn't faze me on an R/N. Unless i'm all alone, in which case I, like any other class, will most likely be screwed.

I think you missed the [BULLSHIT][/BULLSHIT] tags. I've been running Cripshot w/ Apply and Hunters for a while now in ABs. I've come across plenty of Wammos who think Purge Conditions will solve everything. Many who think Mend Ailment will help them (which simply removes poison which gets reapplied 1 second later). I have the odd 'smart' 1 who uses Plague Touch. Its just a shame 9/10 times they never get close enough to use it, even if they do, its not entirely difficult to anticipate.
*zomg, Touchy is coming at me 'Distracting Shot' well i interrupted something... don't care what because its dead now anyway*
A Boon Prot/Blessed Light monk can remove that 1 condition you Plague Touch in no time. Keeping up with the Cripple, Poison and Bleeding that gets sent your way is alot harder, not to mention i can counter an entire Virulence with a single Troll Unguent. The majority of touch rangers that meet my Alliance team are usually dead before they can cast, especially when we have a Rigor Mortis necro around.

Wankey... stop whining. Just because a build can annihilate a warrior thats too dumb to run off (or just not start a fight in the first place maybe?), doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Learn to play another profession that doesn't suck so much vs a TR. Hell, go Air Ele and wind them up with Iron Mist, 90% slow = Touchy for you = GG.
They're no more predictable than any other build. "Hmm, W/E, wonder what he's gonna be... zomg, Eviscerate/Executioners spike and Shock" "N/Mo, is that Blood or FoC spike?" "Me/E, fast cast air spike i wonder?" "Rit/R, Rit Lord spirit spammer i wonder?". You know exactly what those builds are gonna do, you just don't know when quite as easily. You could say 'wow, lets nerf warriors, i KNEW he was gonna start attacking me to build up adren, they all do it!'. Attacking is the W equivilent of Touch spamming for an R/N. Get over it. A Shock Axe takes no skill to run either, its just wailing on people till you get some adren for a spike.

Lambentviper · Jun 29, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

accept for Shock wars you need to plan your KD and sometimes even think on your toes if you need the KD early

Aisius · Jun 29, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

well I'd like to try this for a warrior as a counter

- wary stance
- fear me
-To the limit
-Wild blow
-Bow attack from range then kill em with a good amount of adren.

yeah i think all guilds will wanna work on this one which is kindof a good chance to meet for scrimmage =P

edit: but as far as changing a 2nd profession I'm not really liking that idea, I'd prefer to keep it that I can play RA or AB at my leasure and not have to trek to senji everytime to do so. And if wary stance works how its supposed to shouldn't there skills be blocked ? Till I have enough adren for some Fear me shouts and maybe a KD then get them into stance . Not sure will have to test it out I guess.

Evilsod · Jun 29, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambentviper

accept for Shock wars you need to plan your KD and sometimes even think on your toes if you need the KD early

"Begins casting a long Binding Ritual with the Shock Axe on your tale"
"Cancels it just before he reaches you"
"zomg he hit me with Shock... never saw that coming"

Aisius · Jun 29, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

So basically any axe build warrior/Mo has no counters for a touch ranger that doesnt involve standing in there touch range to apply dismember and axe rake. I can't see how this is balanced.

If I was to switch to a sword and use-
Hamstring If this attack hits, your target is Crippled for 3...13 seconds, slowing movement, with my uber zero points in swords will that 3 secs give me much time to kite kill, have another come and kill?

I could really care less about RA games as often when I go in them I take a PvP build designed for the task.

Since this is the forum area for ranger PvE, I was hoping to see the countless idea's/examples to counter touch rangers as a PvE axe wielding warrior/Mo, however I see none.

So I guess as I am destined to start seeing more TR's in AB games I will have to play only PvP created chars or make a particular build to counter them, while my W/Mo rots farming boring area's of the game, running, or assisting groups. Assumming that I want to be effective in those AB games.

I feel that the original concept of balance has been sucked out of GW's when faced with TR's as an axe warrior/Mo.
Please explain how I am wrong in this.

As posted already by another, the best counter is to charge and flee hoping they will pursue with a running stance maybe get off a wild blow but then what ? Meh goodbye W/Mo for pvp AB I guess.

makosi · Jun 29, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisius

well I'd like to try this for a warrior as a counter

- wary stance
- fear me
-To the limit
-Wild blow
-Bow attack from range then kill em with a good amount of adren.

.

Wary stance is a good idea in theory because expertise says that it reduces the cost of 'attack skills, traps and preparations'. So you're gonna be protected from these ranger's vampiric attacks.

Vampiric Touch must be an attack skill then because expertise reduces its cost right? Wrong. So in the end you can't block these skills because of a loophole in the game. I prefer to call it an exploit.

Alongisde that, most touch rangers use Dodge or Zojun's Haste which ends if you attack but doesn't end with these supposed necro 'attacks'. It is a definite candidate for the nerf stick and I want an official response to this touch ranger business because its pathetic ans requires no skill to run. Apparenltly Arenanet have said that espertise is working as inteded but i personally think that they are scared of the post-nerf flaming they get for applyingthese fixes.