Curse

RandomEngy · Jun 07, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdliddo

I'd say dont bother with the nerf. Touch rangers aint that bad and all these NERFs you guys are ASKING for is things that will NERF skill sets of NECROMANCERS.

Besides... the idea is fun but full of limits. I do like the way EXPERTISE cheapens the energy thing but even that doesnt do justice to a real necromancer.

Besides... touching someone against a necro doing ranged attacks like vampiric gaze + jaundiced Gaze + shadow strike? Couple in the degen of conjure phantasm then hit them with a blackout if they get too near?

There are tons of necromancer and mesmer skills that would kill a touch ranger. So i do not see why someone wants to nerf something perfectly within the rules?

Changing Vampiric Touch and Bite to have a 4 second recharge has a little less effect than nerfing the entire primary attribute line of a class.

Oh and Robin I'd love to hear these magical tactics that allow a warrior to defeat a touch ranger. And no, kiting and using heal sig is not defeating one, it's just making yourself useless while your health gets whittled down.

sdliddo · Jun 07, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

errr.. again... its a necro skill
the onyl reason people want a nerf is because of the EXPERTISE line
you dont see necros complaining about it... wonder why

Robin_Anadri · Jun 07, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

Oh and Robin I'd love to hear these magical tactics that allow a warrior to defeat a touch ranger. And no, kiting and using heal sig is not defeating one, it's just making yourself useless while your health gets whittled down.

You missed my point entirely. My point is that yes, your warrior is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a touch ranger.

Just like almost any other class is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a warrior.

Just because the rangers have found your Achilles' heel is no reason to beg Mommy Anet for the nerfbat.

However, if you'd like to have a more spirited contest with a touch ranger, you just need to spend a little while thinking about your build and preparing.

For instance: W/E - go hammer, bring along Shock and SKull Crack. Knocked down touch ranger = soon to be dead touch ranger.

As has been repeatedly stated, find room in your build for Wild Blow.

Always, always, always... it comes down to who's the better player. That includes the forethought involved in what you bring with you before entering, as well as how intelligently you use your skills. PvP is about opportunism.

Smart Warrior > Stupid Touch Ranger
Stupid Warrior < Smart Touch Ranger

When you have both a smart warrior and a smart touch ranger, well, then it's a toss up and it may depend on who gets help from their team.

When both are stupid, well, who knows. Probably the warrior has the edge because a stupid touch ranger will stand there taking obsene DPS from the warrior while waiting for their energy to recharge, because they didn't bring OoB.

zeno · Jun 07, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

You missed my point entirely. My point is that yes, your warrior is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a touch ranger.

Just like almost any other class is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a warrior.

Just because the rangers have found your Achilles' heel is no reason to beg Mommy Anet for the nerfbat.

qft

XD

Zui · Jun 07, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

Oh and Robin I'd love to hear these magical tactics that allow a warrior to defeat a touch ranger. And no, kiting and using heal sig is not defeating one, it's just making yourself useless while your health gets whittled down.

z0mg team game? wtf!?!

z0mg nerf!

Please, please remember that IN ALL PVP IN GUILDWARS YOU HAVE A TEAM. RA, TA, HA, GvG, AB. So why are you trying to kill anything 1 vs 1?

torquemada · Jun 07, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Agreed with Zui.

Whats up with this 1v1 mentality? If that was the state of PvP then you'd truly see farming wammos swinging around handily recharging their Dolyaks Sig and Gladiators Defense. It would be Riposite FTW, wouldn't it? And then, surely, touch rangers would own yer ass. Seems most of complainers are warrs who feel a bit squishy now eh? Forgot the feeling, right?

Riiight. NERF NERF NERF....

Why for the love of god why should you go 1v1 with warrior against touch ranger?
Shouldn't you be picking a priority target? Unless you want to hamstring him first a bit and then chase his monk till he drops head down...

And the whole RA argument is quite pointless, if you're complaining about unbalanced teams you get. Shouldn't you be playing TA then?

Any balanced team has a few skills in their skillset to handily defeat touch rangers. And most of the other gimmick crap. That's why it's called balanced.

And saying that needing to pack "extra skills" to counter touchers is like saying that boon-prot is really some sub-par monk (opposed to i.e infuser or Heal Party spammer) that evolved because ANET ridicioulously refused to nerf anything you get killed by that isn't a warrior.

JR · Jun 07, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

For instance: W/E - go hammer, bring along Shock and SKull Crack. Knocked down touch ranger = soon to be dead touch ranger.

No disrespect to your post, but please never reccomend anyone ever takes Skull Crack into PvP.

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I think he got the wrong skill. That or i don't think he's noticed that Dazed doesn't affect them in the slightest. For a start they could give you it right back if they felt the need to waste a bit of energy.

Has anyone ever seen what happens when 2 Touch rangers go 1 on 1?

Robin_Anadri · Jun 07, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I think she got the wrong skill. That or i don't think she's noticed that Dazed doesn't affect them in the slightest. For a start they could give you it right back if they felt the need to waste a bit of energy.

(quote pronoun-corrected. Girls actually do play this game, yanno.)

Yeah, I got the wrong skill. I don't play Warrior much (never did much, and I'm waiting on skill-slot purchase to create a warrior on my main account as I don't intend to buy two copies of ever expansion.) The skill I meant was Backbreaker {E}. I'd also throw in Crushing Blow for the Deep Wound.

As for Dazed, no it doesn't hurt a touch ranger that much. If they're using OoB, it takes it to 1/2 sec cast, which makes it at least *possible* to interrupt, although unlikely. Sometimes touchers bring Life Siphon, which Dazed would definately mess with. But, no, not an effective counter.

Quote:

Has anyone ever seen what happens when 2 Touch rangers go 1 on 1?

The smarter one (better skill use, better energy management) wins. What's funny is that a few times I've played toucher and gone up against another, and they waste time/energy using Throw Dirt and Whirling Defense.

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I apologise

I didn't read who the quote was from or i might've guessed (from the details under your name

).

The problem with bringing Backbreaker is the adren cost. 10 adrenaline doesn't come easy, and considering you'd need to use Wild Blow to remove Whirling Defences, it'd take a very long time to charge it. If anything 'Irresistable Blow' ftw. Moment that use Whirling Defences, you can't miss with it since its unblockable, and if they have evasive stances it knocks em down.

You would've thought a Touch Ranger would know that nothing affects them... oh well, easy Faction for you

Dravyn · Jun 07, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

You missed my point entirely. My point is that yes, your warrior is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a touch ranger.

Just like almost any other class is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a warrior.

I just found that amusing

SnipiousMax · Jun 07, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

I just found that amusing

I don't know why, It's not too far off the truth. I imagine a Ranger (not touch) or a Mesmer could 1v1 a warrior by preparing for it.... but that's just it, when you do you ever prepare a build just to take down warriors. Most build are meant to fill a couple of roles. In the field, a warrior that has managed to corner any other profesion will eventually win out if they play smart.

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

I don't know why, It's not too far off the truth. I imagine a Ranger (not touch) or a Mesmer could 1v1 a warrior by preparing for it.... but that's just it, when you do you ever prepare a build just to take down warriors. Most build are meant to fill a couple of roles. In the field, a warrior that has managed to corner any other profesion will eventually win out if they play smart.

Not entirely, you could have 2 anti casters or Interrupt rangers and a healer. What happens? Your anti-casters/interrupters annihilate the opposing teams backline leaving a single touch ranger. What are they suppose to do alone?

I don't watch GvG much, but the last time i checked Warriors are used to do damage, the rest of the team either prevents them doing it or helps there own Warriors (be it healing, removing hexes or surging energy). None of the builds involve skills to kill warriors, mainly to hinder them. A warrior once you've killed the rest of his team isn't much use. The same can be applied to a Touch Ranger. If you somehow manage to lose a 4v1 vs a Touch Ranger, you have no-one to blame but yourselves.

TheBlueFear · Jun 07, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

uhm maybe they should just make the touch skills be spells?

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

No.... they're not spells are they. They're a touch skill, you don't think Throw Dirt is a spell, nor is Blackout or Shock. Making everything unable to get through Spellbreaker wouldn't achieve balance.

RandomEngy · Jun 07, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

You missed my point entirely. My point is that yes, your warrior is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a touch ranger.

Just like almost any other class is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a warrior.

Just because the rangers have found your Achilles' heel is no reason to beg Mommy Anet for the nerfbat.

However, if you'd like to have a more spirited contest with a touch ranger, you just need to spend a little while thinking about your build and preparing.

For instance: W/E - go hammer, bring along Shock and SKull Crack. Knocked down touch ranger = soon to be dead touch ranger.

As has been repeatedly stated, find room in your build for Wild Blow.

Always, always, always... it comes down to who's the better player. That includes the forethought involved in what you bring with you before entering, as well as how intelligently you use your skills. PvP is about opportunism.

Smart Warrior > Stupid Touch Ranger
Stupid Warrior < Smart Touch Ranger

When you have both a smart warrior and a smart touch ranger, well, then it's a toss up and it may depend on who gets help from their team.

When both are stupid, well, who knows. Probably the warrior has the edge because a stupid touch ranger will stand there taking obsene DPS from the warrior while waiting for their energy to recharge, because they didn't bring OoB.

Warriors beat any other class? There are loads of viable ranger, mesmer, necro, elementalist, monk, assassin and ritualist builds that beat most warriors. Was that every class? I think so. What I've been repeatedly saying, and you disregarding is that the counters for touch rangers in RA are far fewer.

Your suggestion for a warrior build is just horrifically laughable. Skull Crack vs a character with one 15-second recharge <1 second cast spell? That can plauge touch it onto one of your casters if he wants? And as mentioned before shock will knock him down for a few seconds, before he gets up and heals back to full while killing you. Assuming he doesn't have WD going, in which case you'll be whiffing and he won't need to heal at all.

And I see you suggested Wild Blow. You probably missed this in an earlier post I made:

Quote:

And to whoever thought taking Wild Blow in RA was a good idea: Warriors in RA need to take a lot of skills: if they don't take Sprint/Rush they're screwed, they need to take a Res signet, then Healing Signet so they don't just get degenned out, then an attack speed increase skill and then condition removal if they don't want to spend half of their time shut down. That leaves 3 precious slots to deal damage with. You're sorely mistaken if you think eating one of those slots with Wild Blow, just to annoy touch rangers, is a good plan. What's a hammer warrior with Devastating, Crushing and Heavy? At the very least decent. What's a hammer warrior with 2 of the 3? A gimp.

Oh and smart warrior versus smart touch ranger? Touch ranger wins. It's not a toss-up at all. Warriors just don't have to DPS to overcome touch spam, even without WD in the mix.

Now onto another poster:

Quote:

z0mg team game? wtf!?!

z0mg nerf!

Please, please remember that IN ALL PVP IN GUILDWARS YOU HAVE A TEAM. RA, TA, HA, GvG, AB. So why are you trying to kill anything 1 vs 1?

Yes but in RA you don't get to pick it, so you don't get support you might get in other arenas to deal with them. When a touch ranger gets on you and your team happens not to have one of the few counters out there for them, you're pretty much useless, dead or both. And I've already gone over how "just take a counter build" is a stupid statement, so I won't type it out again.

Robin_Anadri · Jun 08, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

Warriors beat any other class? There are loads of viable ranger, mesmer, necro, elementalist, monk, assassin and ritualist builds that beat most warriors. Was that every class? I think so. What I've been repeatedly saying, and you disregarding is that the counters for touch rangers in RA are far fewer.

My, my, my. Let's take another look-see at what I wrote, shall we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

You missed my point entirely. My point is that yes, your warrior is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a touch ranger.

Just like almost any other class is more than likely going to lose 1v1 vs a warrior.

I added the underline this time, since you skipped over those words. Now, for clarity, we seem to be switching back and forth between discussing builds and classes. The touch ranger, after all, is just a build of ranger.

Notice the word "almost" there, instead of "every?" There's a subtle difference. My wording leaves room for clever builds other than touch rangers to beat warriors. For instance, a dedicated warrior-hate mesmer build is going to eat your soul. Why is it, do you suppose (providing you have both facing you in the arena) that the first target that your team (I know, I know, team is a concept quite foreign to your experience) calls the mesmer instead of the monk? Because everybody knows they're a threat, AND they know that if 2-3 of you gang up on the poor riverdancer, they're going to take a dirtnap real quick like.

Well, here's a news flash - touch rangers are a threat too, and if your team (I keep using that word, I know, frustrating isn't it?) wants to win, you have to deal with them.

If you go 1v1 vs a touch ranger and lose, well, what did you expect, unless you specifically prepared to take on their known weaknesses? And if "all you can do is kite," well, then the touch ranger is performing her purpose - ie., taking you out of the battle. It's called "pressure." Notice, though that the touch ranger is occupied as well, chasing you. Seems a fairly even trade. The remaining 3 members of your team (doh! there it is again!) can either sneak up behind the toucher and gang up, or go do some evil to the ranger's team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

Your suggestion for a warrior build is just horrifically laughable. Skull Crack vs a character with one 15-second recharge <1 second cast spell? That can plauge touch it onto one of your casters if he wants? And as mentioned before shock will knock him down for a few seconds, before he gets up and heals back to full while killing you. Assuming he doesn't have WD going, in which case you'll be whiffing and he won't need to heal at all.

See, here's where that reading thing would have been good, again.

I'm not even going to requote it. Scroll up and take a lookie-loo at the posts following mine where we worked out that I used the wrong elite name in my suggestion, which was only a half-serious suggestion anyway. But we keep coming back to the original problem, which is that your believe the problem is that your cookie-cutter RA build can't 1v1 kill a touch ranger, and you can't be bothered to put some actual thought into a build that could pull it off. You don't want to change your build, you want Anet to nerf two entire classes so you don't have to change. Grow up.

Is it that you can't be bothered, or is it that you don't know the skills and classes well enough to display some frickin adaptability?

How about this, just off the top of my head:

Warrior/Mesmer

Illusion magic 12
Rest however you like for damage dealing

Gladiator's armor and/or An illusion magic weaponset to switch to.

Conjure Phantasm
Images of Remorse
Accumulated Pain
Imagined Burden

Then warrior skills of your choice.

Toucher runs up to you, cast Imagined Burden, they're snared for 18 seconds and you can easily kite out of range. Cast Conjure Phantasm and IoR. Now they have 9 degen. Cast Accumulated Pain, now they have a deep wound. *poof* Dead ranger. They have no hex or condition removal and no interrupts. You don't even have to stick around, once your spells are cast just move on to your next target.

But wait, that would involve planning ahead!! Gasp!

Duality · Jun 08, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

Is it that you can't be bothered, or is it that you don't know the skills and classes well enough to display some frickin adaptability?

just as true now as ever.

LightningHell · Jun 08, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

Illusion magic 12
Rest however you like for damage dealing

Gladiator's armor and/or An illusion magic weaponset to switch to.

Conjure Phantasm
Images of Remorse
Accumulated Pain
Imagined Burden

I'm just not sure about this...four secondary profession skills on a warrior?

A lot of overkill. Your Warrior doesn't exactly have a large mana pool.

But if you're just going one on one...

R_Frost · Jun 08, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

touch rangers arent overpowered, i can take my normal ranger with the right skills and own the touch ranger. was having fun doing it last night. i just use my trusty short bow of defense, if i see the ranger coming i launch troll unguent, my favorite interupt prep(incendiary arrows), then tigers fury. more times then not the touch ranger cant cast to save its life. when the prep runs out if the touch ranger is still alive i use a few other interupts on them and down they go. the combination of a short bow and tigers fury the only thing that can out cast the speed of my attacks are a mesmer. the build works on just about any character. warriors and assassins are fun to take down too.