Curse

Nightwish · Jun 06, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Agreed with above, regarding touching range. Its not like touch rangers can spam those vamp skills from afar and kill you without moving much.

If there is anything wrong in this whole mess is the introduction of a second vampire bite skill. Now that does tell us something, doesnt it? Which is Anet's support for touch rangers

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I think if anything people are purely whining because Necromancers got a duplicate Vampiric Touch added for no reason. The moment they remove 1 of them, they have to go back to... Vamp Gaze? I dunno, but i can hardly see it working anywhere near as well without 2 Vampiric Touchs.

Shendaar · Jun 06, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

The second Vamp Touch is what turned them into overpowered for me. Before Factions was out I could see alot of Touchers using Vamp Touch and Touch Of Agony and I didn't have any problem with them. The damage they did wasn't that much lower, but they had alot less of healing power.

It would be easy for me to come up with a build to defeat them, but I dont feel I should need to do so in other to stand a chance in RA. I have seen alot of different variation of the touch ranger build and the good ones with OoB and Plague Touch can easily maintain an almost infinite reserve of energy unless seriously drained and can easily bounce back any conditions at is used against them(not like any of them has any effect on them except for Crippling). They are practically immune to all the necromancer hexes, except for maybe SS, even that isn't so great. All the conventional Melee killer hex will have no effect on them since they are not considered as "attacking" and same for the caster killer hexes and interrupts, because they are not casting either. To kill them you need Snare(hex based one, because the condition is very likely to bounce back on one of your teamate within seconds.) and a whole lot of degen or ranged damage to kill them before they can start running. Diversion is probably the single best skill against them, but you can't always count on having a mesmer with that specific skill everytime.

JR · Jun 06, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

The second Vamp Touch was what turned them from something compeltely ridiculous, into something only mostly ridiculous.

Demesis · Jun 06, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Has anyone read a single thing I posted on this thread???

I just gave you guys a very basic build on how to counter a touch ranger, and you guys simply went on "nerf touch rangers", "touch rangers are not overpowered", "yes they are" and all that rubbish.

Stop being so lazy and use the build I provided or go figure out a build to counter it instead of asking it to be nerfed.

Inferno149870 · Jun 06, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

i've been screaming about a nerf to touch rangers since day one.

G G G G G G G G G G Unit.

wanting to nerf something means you just suck to much to figure out a way to beat it.

beside, nerfing those skills would be disasterous to either class. in any build but a touch ranger those skills are at hte right place of even underpowered... if Anet nerfs touch rangers i won't be happy...

don't whine please, go learn a way to beat it, don't make anet do it for you. no one who crys for nerf could ever be considered a good gw player.

lol, anet supporting touch rangers... they are the anti-iway :P

fb2000 · Jun 06, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

I think that a warrior shouldnt have to have skills expressly for dealing with touch rangers. Yes you can just run away, but while a warrior is running, all it can do is use shouts, so the TR pretty much shuts it down. Yes its true that every build has its counters, but the TR is good against most things, and doesnt have common and clear counters. That is why they need to be nerfed. Sure you can make builds that can beat them, but are these builds comperably good as other builds?

i dont see why everyone says Touchers own warriors oO true, if they are like 3-4 and its a lone warrior they do, but that is true of any char build.. yet ive seen a monk tank 4 of them on her own ^^

if u have a monk for backup, just let them use up their energy on u, easy pickings afterwards.. knockdown works wonders too

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The second Vamp Touch was what turned them from something compeltely ridiculous, into something only mostly ridiculous.

lol! ^_^

Ecklipze · Jun 06, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I am unsure wheter this has been mentioned in this thread already, but if it has, i'll repeat it anyway. If Anet are to 'nerf' the touch ranger, I think the best way to do so, would be to change these touch skills into spells. That way they would not be as easy to spam as they would not be reduced by expertise.

lyra_song · Jun 06, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

I am unsure wheter this has been mentioned in this thread already, but if it has, i'll repeat it anyway. If Anet are to 'nerf' the touch ranger, I think the best way to do so, would be to change these touch skills into spells. That way they would not be as easy to spam as they would not be reduced by expertise.

Its been said on this thread (and many more threads), and i dislike that option.

Singling out 1 skill (and its clone) specifically and converting it from skill to spell is a very significant change.

I propose a buff to several skills including Deadly Riposte and Riposte, two skills that already stop Illusionary Weaponry to also stop touch skills.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 06, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Just put an aftercast of 1.75 sec, and touch ranger will be purge from all form of combat.

Dravyn · Jun 06, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I don't know if they should nerf it, but I'd like to see all of you spouting about counters beat touch rangers on a warrior. And do it more than once, to prove it wasn't a fluke. Somehow I don't think you will. Hell, just stand up to him for more than four seconds, because I seriously doubt you'll beat him. KD Warriors will never live long enough to build up the adrenaline needed to keep the TR down. Shock Warriors will get one knockdown, and may live 3 seconds longer than the rest of the warriors. War/necro's spamming Virulence and plague touch will probably last the longest, but without heal from a dedicated monk, they'll bite the dust too.

The only one here that really gave an insightful argument to the anti-nerf "you're just bad players" spammers is a guy that actually plays Touch Ranger and said himself he's damn near unbeatable. As a warrior myself I can stand a chance against most types, mesmers being the most dangerous, but still beatable if I play well. This isn't the case with Touch Rangers, as they are pretty much unkillable with a warrior. My only option is to run, and as someone else said, its delaying the inevitable, as well as completely taking me out of the fight..as soon as I stop to attack someone else I'm eating dirt.

I understand there are counters, but no warrior primary build is one of them. I dont' know about everyone else, but as a Warrior I find that touch rangers are invincible.

JR · Jun 06, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Were Touch Rangers a problem (which they are not), it is a problem with Rangers not Necromancers. Suggesting changes that effect fairly core game mechanics or have side effects on other classes is just ridiculous.

MasterThrawn · Jun 06, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Whoa! When I posted this it was the first time I came up against a group of Touch Rangers. They were annoying and really hard to kill, but my main complaint was that there were two skills that were essentialy duplictes that could be spammed over and over again - with no delay. I could just see it now - push button 1, push button 2, push button 1, and so on.

The funny thing is these skills aren't that great for a Necro, but oh well. I did not realize this would get into such a debate about people not knowing how to play and whining. One of my favorite chars to play is Ranger, so NO WAY do I think anything should be done to expertise. I think they should be more careful with adding duplicate skills though. That's pretty much all I have to say.

I also ran into a group of 4 Me/Ele's there two, but I won't mention that

nohooiam · Jun 06, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno149870

wanting to nerf something means you just suck to much to figure out a way to beat it.

didnt realize people thought i was serious.

i've been using the "G G G G G G G Unit" line to threadcrap on ridiculous threads, but i guess it hasn't caught on yet.

G G G G G G G Unit.

SnipiousMax · Jun 06, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

<snip>

Any Ranger with apply poison and a snare would give you just as much a headache as a touch ranger. You can't look at it as a one on one confrontation. This is a team game, and many builds will fall against other builds without proper support. To begin with, a touch ranger cannot deal out enough damage that any half-wit monk can't keep up with the healing. Snares render them completely useless, and unable to heal themselves. They have no way of removing hexes (by themselves). And throw dirt, has a long enough recharge time, that you should have plenty of time to dish out damage between dirt tossings (even assuming your monk doesn't have some sort of condition removal). And a Touch ranger cannot keep up a sustained attack without depending on offering of blood... and if they have to use that under pressure from degen and other damage, they are done. They are one trick ponies, and easily rendered helpless.

Dravyn · Jun 06, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

No, with plague touch and any nearby enemy a regular ranger isn't near as much trouble as a Touch Ranger. Regular Ranger attacks are *counterable* whereas touch spamming is not, at least as far as warriors are concerned. TR doesn't need a sustained attack when they can easily down a warrior in 3 seconds that isn't getting spamhealed by a monk. However, I will add that after I posted earlier I was able to kill a touch ranger with a War/N sever/gash Virulence build because it became a plague touch fight after that. I still died, but so did he. My teammates weren't all that happy with my spreading poison about, but hey, I was able to beat a touch ranger...

As far Touch Rangers being "easily rendered helpless" I'd have to disagree. Warriors are "easily rendered helpless". Conditions don't mean jack to a TR as long as he's got plague touch, which he will most assuredly have since he only needs two slots for spammable attacks. Basically, nobody can dish the pain that touchers can and only use two slots to do it. The remaining six slots can be built to whatever they desire, defense, that leaves them virtually untouchable by melee. What a lot of you fail to realise is its that limited dependancy on abilities for damage that makes them overpowered.

Although, I will agree, without proper support Warriors fall to just too many builds imo. There are far too many ways to render a warrior useless. But that's a different rant.

SnipiousMax · Jun 06, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

^ Plauge touch only works if you can catch someone, or they're not kiting properly. So snaring a TR or Warrior alike makes plauge touch unreliable.

RandomEngy · Jun 06, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I'll say the fix again. Change Touch and Bite to recharge in 4 seconds instead of 2. You don't need to rewrite the rules of the game. It's also a bit simpler than the "stop playing warriors in RA" mantra that seems so popular here.

Side note: why was this topic moved to the PvE builds forum?

War Garrett · Jun 06, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I'm not for nor against the Touch Ranger [TR].

It's easy to counter this build. There are many ways...

Cripple > TR
Interupts > TR
Knockdowns > TR
Mass Degen > TR
Skill disable > TR

I now play a build designed to beat TR's, consisting of Cripple and Interuption, as well as a few conditions, in Random Arenas. It's not my prefered way of playing but I have fun and whats more important, I defeat TR's!

Yanman.be · Jun 06, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Go play a touch ranger, then consider your questions again.