Curse

Nightwish · Jun 06, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Instead of saying expertise overpowered, why not say other primaries underpowered?

Thanks to the attribute, rangers are saved from being restricted to archer characters, e.g. touch rangers, thumpers, etc.

IMO, other primaries should be done in a similar level to encourage variety in primary builds.

Regarding touchies, I play RA a decent amount, and yes, they are very common, but I have yet to feel them being overpowered. If there is any build/class that can tip the winning chance in RA, that would be proper monks (not melee/smite ones).

EDIT:
Yes, I know monks are not required to win. But please do not lie to ourselves that monk's contribution to a team is just on par with the rest of the classes =/

The very few, if not the only, build that does not need a monk is IWAY, and it has been nerfed, which is quite saddening really.

lyra_song · Jun 06, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulu123

Here's a Guild Wars description of Divine Favor the attribute. "For each rank of Divine Favor, allies are healed for 3.2 whenever you cast Monk spells on them. Several Monk skills, especially spells relating to energy gain and healing, become more effective with a higher Divine Favor." Do you know what that means? That DF is basically useless for any secondary profession skill/spell unlike Expertise.

So basically I am still waiting to see an example of that monstrous synergy between DF and some secondary profession skill.

Divine Boon, Offering of the Blood. Oh wait that got nerfed, thats how good that synergy was.

But unlike a Boon Prot, a Touch Ranger cant single handedly control a battle.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 06, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

When I go into RA arena, my fighters/casters must be built to be anti boon prot.

I would take 1 skill with me in case of touch ranger.

That does kind of say both of them is over powered. As I always have to be ready to fight them as a threat, while there are no other build around that is as much pressuring as these 2. It is probably just these 2 are much more spread in population. But we do take anti warrior all the time, warrior must be godly too.

Expertise = godly
Skill (not spell, not attack) = godly
Life Steal = godly
Contemplation of Purity = godly
Knock Down = godly

The only reason Rit is not a good healer comparing to boon prot is that rit don't have CoP, hex tear rit apart. Most of them start using expel hex, but that is still far from being able to compare to CoP. CoP is not even an elite.

Considering Anet nerfed MM, they should nerf this too. Personally, I wouldn't have nerf neither.

Zorian Direspell · Jun 06, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

I hate touch rangers (clone-skill touch rangers anyway, as I will concede the point that Prophecy only skill rangers are fine). I think the recharge (on Vamp touch skills) should be taken from 2 to 4 seconds, minimum (or they should be Skill -you become enchanted with (or receive condition) Vampirism. Your next successful attack steals X life, as this would allow for stripping and attack interruption or condition removal and attack disruption). And before someone tries telling me to "try playing one", I did. I went from random to teams in no time before losing 6-5 in sudden death to a Korean team (because someone got seperated from our group).

Our group wasn't balanced. It had two mesmers, a fire ele, and me. We didn't do much to offset each others weaknesses. But it didn't matter. With the build I played, I had 75% evasion (goodbye interrupting attacks) almost constantly, 25% faster speed (goodbye snares), condition removal and causation (goodbye anything not a hex ... oh, and your monk is bleeding now), a self heal for 65 per second (goodbye damage), and 65 dps (goodbye opponent). On a character with a base 75 armor (105 vs. elements).

The problem wasn't that the class couldn't be countered, it was that it did so many things, it was so self-contained, and so potentially devastating, that it took the focus of several foes at a time to deal with me (ineffectually as you can see). The only skills that consistently were a thorn in my side were blackout when coupled with degen hexes, and that only worked if I was feeling stupid enough to let a mesmer running at me get that close. In the TA battle I only died once (all four vs. me) and scored three of our kills, with the two others being made as the enemy ran from me.

The result of this situation is that the R/N substitutes skills for skill. The R/N has only one true concern, mesmers, and almost no limit on how far from the group they can extend or how long they can last. At least with an IW mesmer you can strip an enchantment (something that hurts many classes and builds). An assassin has to connect to hit, actually won't hit as hard,, and is subject to warrior hate. An air spike ele can be dropped with ease if someone knows what they're doing. An R/N is like all of these, but it uses less energy, has better defense, carries no enchantments, and has faster recharging skills. That an R/N need not even have the skill of the average assassin or IW mesmer for doing essentially the same thing is cause for concern. A nerf is needed.

lactatemike · Jun 06, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I've got an idea, how about every single time a build comes along that you have to think of a way to overcome we call it overpowered and bitch and cry until it gets nerfed???

Sound good?

I mean, THINKING about a way to beat a set of skills really is just terribly inconvenient, isn't it? Why don't all you whiney people who just rag on creative builds think this over while you buy gold on ebay?

Edit: And how does a build that more often than not dies against two opponents (pvp) seem too powerful?

And don't just attribute this to me having a touch ranger, because while I do have one, I have also died a lot because of them.

I'm just SICK of people saying "Oh it's too hard and my normal build that I NEVER change doesn't work against it, so nerf it plz!!!"

Zorian Direspell · Jun 06, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Why don't all you whiney people who just rag on creative builds think this over while you buy gold on ebay?

I would never think to whine about a creative build, but touch rangers aren't creative. They're obvious, generally skill-less and most likely used by those very e-bayers you so despise (who, I would imagine, also scoop net builds because they can't do things for themselves)

ed: stupid keyboard goofed my last sentence.

pork soldier · Jun 06, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyGiant

They do wreck it a bit IN RANDOM ARENAS, they are overpowered (if you don't believe me please play random arenas for a few days

Monk + Toucher = eek)
BUT this is because teams have only 4 random players so unless you've specifically got a skill or two to counter them they are extremely hard to take down simply because of the randomness of the team.

Try hammer warrior next time, a knocked down michael jackson can't touch you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

To be absolutely blunt; the counter to Touch Rangers is to not suck at this game.

They are a build, like IWAY, which beats bad players very quickly. A good team will have absolutely no problem against them at all. They are a ridiculous gimmick. As someone stated earlier; they weed out the bad teams from RA, much like IWAY weeds out the bad teams from the early rounds of HA.

Seriously, learn to play.

This is still so true.

Shendaar · Jun 06, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I hate people that keeps saying those who say they are overpowered are not thinking and do not know how to play the game.

Like every build, there are also counters to the Touch Ranger, but the counters to them are much less numerous than any other build. It takes alot of effort to bring one down and in non GvG situation, you won't always have the necessary skills ready or available to take them down. The problem is not that they can't be beaten, the problem is that compared to all the other builds I have seen, only the Touch Ranger can substain that amount of hate and yet still tear through whoever it is attacking.

I gave them a chance when I first saw them come into play and I perfectly realise that they are counters to them, but I have come to the conclusion that they are atleast slightly overpowered. The complete lack of available protection against Life Stealing is I think the main issue here. Kiting only delays the inevitable and asking everyone to carry a crippling skill because of 1 single build in the game is just being stupid in my opinion.

I have no problem understanding how a Touch Ranger would get obliterated in GvG, but some people like me enjoys to PvP in Fort Aspenwood for example and when a duo of two Touch Ranger completly destroys all of your NPCs and make it to the gatekeepers and manage to kill them regarless of how many enchantements you stack on them I think there is a problem. Now if only we would have had someone to cripple them, but there are such things as random parties in GW and I don't think that makes us sucky players now does it? Oh and lets not talk about what they can accomplish when backed by a monk.

Zui · Jun 06, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

For everyone still crying for a nerf(even though I'm quoting someone):

Quote: