Curse

Yuo Can Do It! · Jun 05, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Warriors - Should bring some sort of knockdown/cripple and some sort of degen.

Rangers - cripple/poison or bleeding, traps

Elementalists - water magic

Mesmers - Diversion or Cry of frustration, or degen hexes+slowdown

Necromancer - degen hexes, conditions

Monks - prot spirit/life sheath/pretty much any prot spell that's an enchantment that negates damage is useless, don't waste time using them. Heal yourself or just run away into a crowd, let others deal with it.

Assassins - knockdowns, conditions, shadowstepping

Ritualists - run? I see no skills that can overpower touch rangers...possibly wanderlust+earthbind (or whatever it's called) as they need to stay still..

There - basic strategies for every class for defeating ( or at least hindering their healing process ) for every class. It's not that hard. If you have an extra slot, and hate touch rangers, bring a skill or two that can hinder them.

The only reason they seem overpowered is because people haven't found sufficient strategies to beat them yet - you're looking too hard, they're easy to kill.

Mr_T_bot · Jun 05, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Best way to counter a touch build, move.

Try and cripple them, or use spells like spitefull spirit.

Blackout is fun stuff.

RandomEngy · Jun 06, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

First off, the only place they might be overpowered is RA, so that's what I'll talk about.

Many people like to look down on that game type but IMO it's something you have to keep in mind. And just because counters exist for something doesn't automatically mean it's fine balance-wise. A lot of otherwise balanced and fun RA builds just plain get beaten by touch rangers, and there's nothing you can do about it. Sure, you can run, but if you don't have a decent monk on your team (by no means guarunteed in RA), you're just making yourself useless for a while, then dying. Zojun's Haste and Dodge will see to that. To suggest every person's build should take a snare or bring e-denial is just shortsighted. Diversion might be okay but in general dom mesmers in RA just get reamed. Not to mention Cripple-based snares have a good chance of backfiring with Plauge Touch.

They are pretty boring to play, but they can make RA just un-fun by severely limiting viable builds.

(edit) I think a good solution would be to up the recharge to 4 seconds, so it takes a little more dedication to get good DPS, rather than having 5 slots open for running/defense/condition removal.

Saider maul · Jun 06, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

This thread makes me lol, for several different reasons. One, there are already 5-6 topics about touch rangers. Search button is your friend.

ok first off search is down 80% of a 24hr period.
the 2 threads are miles long and always getting off topic.

I have played as a touch ranger. its totally skilless.
are there alot of threads like this. yeah. why raise a stink about it.
touch ranger is a cheap copout build to farm faction.

do nothing about it, this way the build gets over exploited and thus nerfed.

Nivryx · Jun 06, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I really dont see what everyone is complaining about. Crip Shotting ftw

>edit<

the audacity....

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

i've been screaming about a nerf to touch rangers since day one.

G G G G G G G G G G Unit.

i have been touching since before factions was released, never heard a single complant about it and actually recieved props from people. please define 'day 1' i mustve started at 'day -90'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

ok first off search is down 80% of a 24hr period.
the 2 threads are miles long and always getting off topic.

I have played as a touch ranger. its totally skilless.
are there alot of threads like this. yeah. why raise a stink about it.
touch ranger is a cheap copout build to farm faction.

do nothing about it, this way the build gets over exploited and thus nerfed.

and let me guess, you used vampiric touch & bite? touching isn't totally skilless when using prophecies skills only. we just need to develop a term for touching with clone skills...how about cloned touching? er...i really dont care what it is. but seriously, all these generalizations are rather annoying. like i said, i touched before factions and never recieved any complaints about it. its rather amusing to go into RA with prophicies only skills and still get verbally harrassed but it suddenly stops when you tell them chapter 1 skills only.

Phades · Jun 06, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Did you notice my list didnt include Rit and Monks intentionally?

Support characters reverse the synergy, taking advantage of secondary. while still relying on their primary to still maintain use of the build.

Attack characters who use a secondary build rely on that primary to make their build different (like touch rangers, fast cast elemesmers, echo nukers), as opposed to a character who uses the same build, but has the actually primary attribute.

Umm, no profession exploits secondary skills to the degree a ranger can. The only thing stopping them from being completely broken, is the limitation it has with regard to spells.

Fast casting helps, but only on skills with a decent cast time. These primarially are hexes and elementalist skills.

Necromancers build energy from stuff dying, but the ritualist addition allows for engineered situations of amplified recovery (~11 pip range).

Your list stops there. Energy storage only helped when a ele used ether renewal (before it was nerefed), and ether prodigy (which gives equal effiicency to a ranger with no energy skills loaded at 14 expertise if used constantly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthar

Wow! I bet your uberbuild can survive seven shock warriors or seven air spikers, since you use this number of touch rangers as an example of something that is especially annoying...

The theoretical damage output of a touch ranger aside, my practical experience (they are all the rage in AB, and I mostly monk there) is that they have a feeble damage output if kited even a little bit. If you try to stand up to them they get a bit more dangerous, but since their skills never interrupt or knockdown, they still present a rather weak threat - They do not inhibit any casting or attacks and a monk readily outheals one or two of them.

Air spike is easy to survive, but the warriors can be a nuicance without alot of warrior hate. The reason why they are so popular in AB, is due to the solo hunting they can do in addition to how mobile they are while spending virtually nothing in energy. They can easily solo alot of the shrines that ive watched warriors suicide on while out of range from their monk.

AB's are organized chaos, more or less, but that is part of the charm to them. I disagree that having the answer being that every person outside of a monk and rit have 100% uptime snares or going a 1-1 ratio of domination mesmers with the expected number of touch rangers. Similar arguments were made for various counters to other things like ether renewal. Ether renewal was easier to counter than this though. Also, things like snares tend to get removed if the opposition has monk support of their own.

pork soldier · Jun 06, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

crippleshot, pin down, deep freeze, ice spikes, iron mist, frozen burst, gale, shock, hammer bash, dev hammer, mind freeze ... do I need to keep going? If you what you're fighting and react properly it's GG touch rangers. I can't tell you how many of those guys I've utterly pwned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

To be absolutely blunt; the counter to Touch Rangers is to not suck at this game.

They are a build, like IWAY, which beats bad players very quickly. A good team will have absolutely no problem against them at all. They are a ridiculous gimmick. As someone stated earlier; they weed out the bad teams from RA, much like IWAY weeds out the bad teams from the early rounds of HA.

Seriously, learn to play.

QFT

Divinus Stella · Jun 06, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Ok, so touch rangers piss people off, isnt that why you go into RA, to piss others off? afaik the only reward for winning is seeing the opposition dead and the smug feeling you get when the wammo cries out "NOOBS" in local with his face planted in the arena floor.

I was playing around with that old insta-gib mesmer GB build just now, and its funny as hell, you can take a target down on your own in 3 seconds.
RA has lots of cheap gimmic builds, its nothing serious its just a mess around, touch rangers are just something nice and easy for people to play, like paladins and interrupt/degen rangers.

Pillz_veritas · Jun 06, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

If this build has a counter, Which it does (and there are NUMEROUS ways to counter it) leave it be.

it is as counterable (IF NOT MORE) then IWAY.

so everyone STFU and stop crying to Anet about your incompetence.

xiaotsu · Jun 06, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillz_veritas

If this build has a counter, Which it does (and there are NUMEROUS ways to counter it) leave it be.

it is as counterable (IF NOT MORE) then IWAY.

so everyone STFU and stop crying to Anet about your incompetence.

Amen to that.

If you seriously hate touch rangers that bad, stop complaining and start carrying a counter to them where you go! It's just like PvE, if you aren't set up for what you're doing, you're going to die. You KNOW where the touch rangers are, so start preparing for them, jeez, it's seriously NOT that hard. Stop crying and put a little thought into the situation and stop demanding a nerf on everything you suck against, GG.

inscribed · Jun 06, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

For those of you complaining about touch rangers, instead of complaining, why not make your own touch ranger? Go ahead and roll up a touch ranger and own RA. I'm willing to bet you won't make it nearly as far as you think.

And if you do make it as far as you think, and completely own every opponent you come across, come back here with the screen shots and the proof. Then you'll at least have a legitimate case for the nerfing of touch rangers.

Navaros · Jun 06, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

To be absolutely blunt; the counter to Touch Rangers is to not suck at this game.

They are a build, like IWAY, which beats bad players very quickly. A good team will have absolutely no problem against them at all. They are a ridiculous gimmick. As someone stated earlier; they weed out the bad teams from RA, much like IWAY weeds out the bad teams from the early rounds of HA.

Seriously, learn to play.

Exactly!

Threads like this are precisely what is wrong with devs listening to players. The devs listen to bad players cry about things en masse that are not overpowered, and then they over-nerf the crap out of all those things. Just like they did to IWAY and smiting and any other common build that doesn't completely suck, ever since Guild Wars came out.

Touch rangers are not overpowered. Leave them alone.

Melissa Is HOT · Jun 06, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Touch rangers arent overpowered they suck and are terrible builds... I've heard so much crap in this thread i dont know how to respond to it all but I'll just set a few things straight...

Touchrangers use OoB... not oath shot or any other elite... they dont use stormchaser they use dodge and/or zojun's haste... Touchrangers suck majorly... they can deal/steal about 50 hp per sec on a stationary target... solution? Kite for a sec and let someone else kill them... Even when they use dodge they cant get off many skills because they have to stop every time to cast them... they have no hex removal... no actualy heals... and to maintain energy they must make a 20% Sac every 15-7.5 seconds... It's just a terrible build and I dont see why people allow themselves to get owned by them...

Also... IWAY is not overpowered at all... its a decent build and it takes just as much skill to use an iway warrior as it does to use a shock warrior, or as much to use a tainted as it does to use a nuker emo with chants... It takes skill to play a trapper... It takes as much skill to play an orders necro as it does to play a monk... IWAY isnt just some random build where you can throw a bunch of nubs in a blender and hope to farm fame... people just complain about it because they see it a lot and get owned by it then cry because they are running a terrible build...

Just because a build isn't complet crap doesnt mean you need to nerf it into the dirt because you can't play guildwars... leave them alone or better yet own the hell out of there pathetic terrible builds?

Chicken Ftw · Jun 06, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

ok first off search is down 80% of a 24hr period.
the 2 threads are miles long and always getting off topic.

I have played as a touch ranger. its totally skilless.
are there alot of threads like this. yeah. why raise a stink about it.
touch ranger is a cheap copout build to farm faction.

do nothing about it, this way the build gets over exploited and thus nerfed.

Ok, if you're going to quote me, at least read all of my post. Right after the part you quoted, I admitted it might be down. >.>

Yeah, it doesn't take skill to play one. It doesn't take any to beat one, either. Hey, let's nerf every mediocre build, so that all the terrible players who can't kite/don't have a clue have a chance at winning.

Why raise a stink about multiple threads about the same subject? For one, if you knew how to play, you wouldn't see "nerf touch ranger" topics. For two, it's a waste of space. For three, it's just damned annoying.

Anyway... as JR said... if you can't beat this build... Learn to play. While you're at it, learn to read, so you can quote me and not look like a fool.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Jun 06, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

the easiest thing they could do was easily do this:

Change Bite and Touch ---> spells...

Kakumei · Jun 06, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melissa Is HOT

some random build where you can throw a bunch of nubs in a blender and hope to farm fame...

Yet people did exactly that, and to no little success.

Ken Dei · Jun 06, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

The possible counters:
-Cripple/slow - Available to Rangers, Sword Wars, Axe Wars(Conditionally), mesmers (Illusion), Assassins.
-High speed kiting - Available to all, except maybe Rits and Mes.
-multi-knockdown - Hammer Wars and Assassins, maybe others.
-Heavy Degen - Mainly Mesmers and Necros
-Skill based interrupts - Mainly Rangers, Assassins, Mesmers, some others.
-e-denial - very specific mesmer build.

Things Touchers can beat:
-High amounts of direct dmg
-low level degen, poison and bleeding, unless combined, and not cured, don't cut it.
-Wards.
-Enchants.
-Most shutdown hexes, backfire, empathy
-Many interrupts, as most are spell based.
-Cripple, if they have plague touch
-Blind, no effect
-Dazed, no effect
-Probably many, many more.

So basically, now every class in the game now needs to bring 1-2 skills to counter 1 type of class. Or not do so, and die.

That by definition, is being overpowered.

Now I'm not going to get into the whole battle over Expertise, my opinion is that it's abusively overpowered. That's my opinion, you won't change it.

Also, since the idea of attack skills won't work due to various logical conflicts. And because making both skills, spells instead, would kill the build; I suggest a compromise.

Make one of the skills a spell and leave the other a skill. Problem solved.

More available interrupts, shutdown, and counters overall become available.

If you don't like that proposal, fine, whatever, you're probably a touch ranger trying to protact your build. I'm going to keep ignoring you on the battlefield because it's a total waste of my time to make a build to counter JUST YOU, and not the dozen or so other enemy builds I could deal with better with a different build.

I'll go find 5 guys to gang on you when you've become to much of a pest. Since it would be a waste of my time to try and beat out your lifesteal spamming by myself. And yes, it is spamming.

Adios.

LuckyGiant · Jun 06, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

After reading all the opinions, I wanted to post my view too

I play a warrior (shock) in random arenas and you can call me stupid all you like but i cant out dmg 65/sec with a 65/sec heal to them, impossible 1v1. I just cripple and move on.

They do wreck it a bit IN RANDOM ARENAS, they are overpowered (if you don't believe me please play random arenas for a few days

Monk + Toucher = eek)
BUT this is because teams have only 4 random players so unless you've specifically got a skill or two to counter them they are extremely hard to take down simply because of the randomness of the team.

I realize though in NON-RANDOM matches (GvG, Teams and whatever else there is [I'm PvE :P]) you are likely to have counters to them between your team, while attempting to shutdown another build (monks especially) those counter can double as counters to touch.

Disclaimer: If you flame without reading my complete post first, you are the idiot...

Chicken Ftw · Jun 06, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

So basically, now every class in the game now needs to bring 1-2 skills to counter 1 type of class. Or not do so, and die.

That by definition, is being overpowered.

No, that, by definition, is Guild Wars. Builds and counterbuilds. You bring counters to builds you think you'll be facing. You can be pretty sure you'll face IWAY in HA, so you bring a few counters. You can be pretty sure you'll face touch ranger in RA, so... you bring a counter. Overpowered? Not at all. It's the way the game goes.

One skill that helps greatly vs touch rangers... knowing how to use W, A, S, D.

floplag · Jun 06, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

im gonna agree with Saider here and tell everyone on the high horse to stop with the constant "search is your friend" bullsquat every other post, when you know darn good and well that its down the vast mjority of the time. in fact, its never actually worked for me.

my opinions on this thread have been expressed, but people around here need to get over themselves sometimes