Curse

nuclear_herring · Jul 11, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Hi there,
My new elementalist character has just made it to kaineng & gone exploring. I've picked up Double Dragon from Lian in the bazaar and now I'm trying to find a way to use it that won't get me flattened in 5 seconds.
Can anyone help me with this or should I just give up? This is the only elite my character has access to at present, but if it's as bad as most people seem to say it is, I'll pass and carry on with what I've already got.
What do people think? Is there a build that takes advantage of this skill?

Leonidas2 · Jul 11, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Double Dragon is the sister skill to Star Burst. Where one is spike, the other is sustained.

Star Burst is a cheap 5e and can be cast once every 10 seconds (Besides the -5e for hitting multiple things). It does the same damage as double dragon, and I would consider it better personally.

But, you only have Double Dragon, so we'll move on. Double dragon is the spike version of star burst, able to push out much more damage in a smaller window due to its 1-2 strike. In reality, despite the skill description, it hits when you cast it, then 2 seconds later. In those 2 seconds, you can use 2 other skills, usually PB skills. So technically, if used in conjunction with Flame Djinns Haste and Inferno and 16 fire magic, you do 119+127+142+119 in a 2 second window (Or flame burst, as haste is an elonian skill I think o.O). Then you're out for a bit, waiting on recharges.

As far as builds go for double dragon, you got me. I never used it and couldn't help you. But if you're looking to survive on the front line, go part earth magic and use things like Armor of Earth and stoneflesh aura if you have it. Use Burning Speed to counter the speed loss of Armor of Earth or warp around with E/A. Cantha isn't friendly to enchantments though, as the afflicted use OoA and most assassins use Dark Apostery. So be wary.

phool · Jul 11, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

PBAoE is workable in pve on an ele, I've found it most effective with builds along the lines glyph of sacrifice-meteor shower-assasin's promise-dark prison, but double dragon is a really terrible excuse for an elite. You're better off leaving it behind and running no elite on a standard fire attunement+some ranged crap pre fire NF build.

Stormlord Alex · Jul 11, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Basically... Double Dragon sucks.

It's recharge is too long. 30 seconds is HUGE, especially compared to other point-blanks - compare to Flame Burst's 5s or Inferno's 10s.

It's expensive - while 15 energy isn't that bad, compared to Star Burst's 5 (conditional 10), it's pretty easy to see Dragon's lacking.

The AoE is TINY. At least Flame Burst is on Nearby radius. You'll rarely get the full damage out of it as even a dolyak-sig tank could walk out Adjacent in the 2 second gap.

Point-blank skills, as a whole, fail miserably. The nearing-2 second aftercast kills them. The fact an enemy can walk away from you while casting kills them. The tiny AoE on most of them kills them. The fact you need to devote an entire build (shadowsteps, snares, armour buffs...) to getting ANY mileage out of them kills them. Heck, even the concept of point-blanks is rather lame - I'd much rather have an ele kite the nasty aatxe than try to kill it with a piddly Inferno.

The only point-blank Fire skills I can really condone use of are Flame Djinn's Haste - spared the horrid aftercast, decent damage AND a nifty speed boost to help kiting (which, incidentally, lasts a while) - and Bed of Coals, which can act as a pseudo-ward in tight situations.

And...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas2

In those 2 seconds, you can use 2 other skills, usually PB skills. So technically, if used in conjunction with Flame Djinns Haste and Inferno and 16 fire magic, you do 119+127+142+119 in a 2 second window (Or flame burst, as haste is an elonian skill I think o.O). Then you're out for a bit, waiting on recharges.

Nope, not a chance. In them 2 seconds after the initial cast, you're stuck there like an idiot while you do the aftercast-thang. If you're lucky with a fast-cast mod, you might be able to get a second point-blank to land roughly the same time as the second pulse of Dragon. Provided, of course, your foe didn't take one step to the right.

In short, Double Dragon is little more than +1 to the skill hunter title.

nuclear_herring · Jul 12, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Thx for that guys.
This is my first elementalist character, based in cantha purely for the speed in which you can get to level 20. I have all 3 campaigns so wandering round elona to pick up other skills is definitely an option if that is what you think my best choice is.

xDusT II · Jul 12, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

I would say only use Double Dragon until you can get a better elite skill, most notably Elemental Attunement from Chung The Attuned in the Undercity.

Double Dragon's use in PvE is very limited and it is overshadowed by pretty much every other Elementalist elite skill. Atleast with Elemental Attunement (Which should be the closest Elite for you to capture) you can load your bar full of high energy spells and continously churn them out.

pingu666 · Jul 12, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

ele attument is pretty decent, so get that

qazwersder · Jul 12, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

And to think, once upon a time, Elemental Attunement was the only choice.

ADGrady · Jul 14, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I play an ele and the only reson for you to use Double Dragon is lack of a better skill. a ele would use it early on as its "melee punnisher" skill. you would continue to lv up and use the other skills, and if a melee fighter attacks, kill 'um fast with it. once other elies come to your disposal, your build is better of using them. my faviots are
1: mind blast (although you have to be far in NF to cap)
2: Searing flames
3: Star blast

your better off just caping all the elite fire spells you can

MetalMan · Jul 26, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

I used double dragon once as a change to my SH build... and immediatly switched back, its pretty useless, when, for maybe half an hours more exploring, you can get a better elite from the undercity - Ele Attunement, with it you casn deal more damage through more spamming

haggus71 · Aug 02, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

If you have all three campaigns, you can get Ele attunement right in the Marga Coast. A pretty easy cap, too. I did the same thing, going Cantha for the quick leveling, and was thinking, "Is this the ONLY crap elite I could get?" Ele attunement will get you through most areas. You can also hike up Turai's procession to Korr and get the ever-loved Searing Flames, then go back to Cantha and lay waste to all the Afflicted. All the noob pugs will love you for SF.

Toutatis · Aug 05, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Double Dragon has its uses. I've used it as an emergency self-defence spell in the past. Mix it in with other point blank spells Flame Burst and Inferno, and the monster AI often thinks it's AoE damage and tries to run from it (thus leaving you alone for a while). It's also not half bad on a W/E, who needs to get in close anyway.

Takuan Starfire · Aug 07, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I used to be in the same situation as you i capped double dragon and used it till i got farther on and got better and got elites like star burst, etc.. yah it really isnt any good unless the enemy has gotten through your front line and is attacking you personally. Also as Toutatis said its a good skill if your a W/E who's on the front line and is near enemies.

Coloneh · Aug 08, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

the only PRAoE skill you really should ever consider is flame dijinn's.

Kalendraf · Aug 08, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only PRAoE skill you really should ever consider is flame dijinn's.

QFT...though I think that should say PBAoE (Point Blank Area of Effect)

In typical PvE play, it is generally unwise for a fire elementalist to even consider packing a PBAoE skill. You shouldn't be letting foes get close to you, and if they are, you should consider moving instead of catching them with a very situational skill. You have so many better options to fill your skill bar with.

Also, just because a skill is labeled as an elite, it does not mean it is automatically superior to other non-elite skill options. In my preferred fire ele builds, I'd pack almost anything else, even a secondary skill before trying to pack a PBAoE skill.

The only one that makes some sense is Flame Djinn's Haste, and that's mostly because it provides a useful speed boost. Plus it also counts as an enchantment which can have benefits such as providing a cover enchant to protect Attunements, bigger gains from Ether Renewal, bigger heals from an allied monk using Dwayna's Kiss, etc. Double Dragon does none of that.

IMHO, Double Dragon is a very poorly designed elite skill. Even if there was a non-elite version with identical stats, I wouldn't use it. The 2nd AoE burst can trigger scattering, but that usually isn't all that helpful. Most players will be far better off packing a non-elite damage skill instead of Double Dragon.