Curse

Coloneh · Sep 16, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

pretty sure it does work almost everywhere actually. try things before you bash them please.

boarderx · Sep 17, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Ah yes because things in end-game PvE or the harder Dungeons will hold back until they've grouped around you, that way your hench don't need to come in and heal/prot you before you get your head caved in... pretty sure that tactic won't work in Hard mode either regarding open spaces.

in HM it works if you wanna run an Obsid Flesh derv or something with some good buffs, then after you've been beat on for a lil bit then the others can come up and clean up the mob. like others said try it if you dont think something works doesnt mean it doesnt work, play style has a huge part in how things do and dont work, ive solo HM missions before and it is possible i took aggro and tanked while i controlled my h/h. anyway, hf and gl

Utaku · Sep 17, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

IMHO, the new skill can be effective if you manage to ball up ennemies; whereas the staple skills such as
[skill]mystic sweep[/skill] [skill]eremite's attack[/skill] [skill]victorious sweep[/skill] [skill]reaper's sweep[/skill] and [skill]wounding strike[/skill] are effective whatever happens.

Evilsod · Sep 17, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

pretty sure it does work almost everywhere actually. try things before you bash them please.

How about sharing your secret about balling up high level foes in open spaces without taking any damage then?

Oh come on. The moment you have to mention Obsidian Tanking to make these skills worth using pretty much confirms they suck. If you want to become completely useless the moment agro breaks off you fine. Utaku gets it.

Darkside · Sep 17, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

How about sharing your secret about balling up high level foes in open spaces without taking any damage then?

Oh come on. The moment you have to mention Obsidian Tanking to make these skills worth using pretty much confirms they suck. If you want to become completely useless the moment agro breaks off you fine. Utaku gets it.

Coloneh didn't say anything about obsidian tanking when he mentioned group aggro. Why don't you quote the correct person before you go off on one of your rants.

Personally, I don't like most of the eye of the north skills in this build. In theory they look good but in game things don't always happen the way you would like (at least in my case) I don't always get the monsters encircled around me (maybe I'm not as good at it as Coloneh is). Either way I can't do it consistently. Still will try the build out tho and see how it works out before I start ranting about why it wont without even trying it.

Evilsod · Sep 17, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Coloneh didn't say anything about obsidian tanking when he mentioned group aggro. Why don't you quote the correct person before you go off on one of your rants.

Just because i didn't bother quoting boarderx doesn't mean it wasn't aimed at him. So stfu.

Quote:

Still will try the build out tho and see how it works out before I start ranting about why it wont without even trying it.

No your right, i haven't tried his build out. Because i don't see Dwayna as worth using in most of PvE. I have however tried out the new skills.

Darkside · Sep 17, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Just because i didn't bother quoting boarderx doesn't mean it wasn't aimed at him. So stfu.

No your right, i haven't tried his build out. Because i don't see Dwayna as worth using in most of PvE. I have however tried out the new skills.

So are you the *mean guy* of the dervish forum or something? You're always such an ass when there is no reason to be.

I basically agreed with your assessment of the eye of the north skills as well as peoples ability to control aggro perfectly as being a little easier said then done. I guess the only thing that caught your attention was that I also pointed out the flaw in your augment; which is that you didn't bother attempting to try out the build before you commented on it. So here's what you can do. You can stfu until you actually try the build and then you can come back here and post some constructive criticism about your experience.

Coloneh · Sep 18, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

evilsod. i told you already:

1. flag heros back.
2. aggro part of mob.
3. back up.
4. wait for mobs to form into backline and frontline.
5. dont cause AoE scatter.

its really not that difficult. and it works everywhere. granted in some HM stuf you might need prot spirit or something to handle the aggro.

obsidian tanking was mentioned because you tried to argue that this wont work in high-end/HM areas when it was not designed for them. obsidian tanks were mentioned as a way to handle aggro in these areas.

Perfected Shadow · Sep 18, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

12+1+1=Mysticism
12+1=Scythe Mastery

Why not 2 major runes? 15 Mysticism is a breakpoint, and increasing Scythe Mastery is always good. -70 HP imo is fine in pve.

What is the purpose of the build? I've tried it, the damage is not on par with Lyssa+HoF+AoHM. It's only advantage is hex removal, which is easily supplied by a monk anyway.

Coloneh · Sep 18, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

-70 is not fine imo. run it if you want but i wount endorse it in my post.

and the damage is easily on par with lyssa if you make sure to ball up foes.

Evilsod · Sep 18, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

evilsod. i told you already:

1. flag heros back.
2. aggro part of mob.
3. back up.
4. wait for mobs to form into backline and frontline.
5. dont cause AoE scatter.

I must be missing the part where you use a bonder hero or the part where this only works vs Charr and there 'battle formations'. Or do you give every mob a 2 mile run up? If things aren't already attacking you the moment a henchman comes in to stop you dieing they won't stay focused on you, thus making half your skills useless. Not to mention things don't always stand directly in front of you... and moving back to do so can easily break agro, AoE or no AoE. Your basing your entire opinion of these skills on the fact you never fail to hit more than 1 foe with them. I'm basing mine on the realistic fact that you don't always hit 2 or 3 things, they're inconsistant, why do you refuse to admit that?

Quote:

its really not that difficult. and it works everywhere. granted in some HM stuf you might need prot spirit or something to handle the aggro.

But zomg, your using Pious Fury! What do you do? A rather poor 6 second IAS and death or lose out on... what is it, 50% extra damage?

Quote:

So are you the *mean guy* of the dervish forum or something? You're always such an ass when there is no reason to be.

No, you just got what you deserved for the part i quoted. But i apologise.

Quote:

You can stfu until you actually try the build and then you can come back here and post some constructive criticism about your experience.

Give me a reason to try the build as a whole? There is no way on this earth Dwayna can cause more damage than Lyssa if you don't take miss/slow hexes into account (which is just getting picky anyway) and i fail to see how Radiant is even worth using . I have tried out the new skills, this build uses mostly new skills. I got some decent results with Radiant Scythe when i ran Zealous Vow, purely because i could easily maintain high energy that way while still actually using attack skills, but otherwise i've found it pretty poor in comparison to Victorious Sweep if your wanting damage.

Quote:

and the damage is easily on par with lyssa if you make sure to ball up foes

.

Like hell it is. You don't even have Mystic Sweep or Eremite's Attack, thats already a huge drop in damage. Your max energy isn't *that* high so Radiant Scythe isn't easily doing the max damage without sacrificing using other attack skills. Zealous Sweep is only good if your hitting 3 targets. And lets not forget the +41-53 extra damage your getting from Lyssa if you hit a skill, sorry but hitting an enemy during a cast twice with a +53 Lyssa and +30 Mystic/Eremite's every so slightly beats 1 +44 from Radiant.

I fail to see how balling up your foes on a Dwayna build suddenly gives you more damage than balling up foes on a Lyssa build, when Lyssa clearly gives you far more damage and far more energy to use with Radiant. If your finding you actually need constant hex removal and constant healing from Dwayna itself over using Victorious and Mystic Vigour (which sadly is no use if your running Pious Fury either) then i'd have to say your the 1 thats doing something wrong (or your just in Frostmaws Burrows... which i'd have to say i wished i had taken Dwayna or Pious Restoration the last time i went as Mystic/Victorious just weren't enough).

Perfected Shadow · Sep 19, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

and the damage is easily on par with lyssa if you make sure to ball up foes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

I've tried it, the damage is not on par with Lyssa+HoF+AoHM

Using the same attack skills in your build, and perfectly balling up mobs like the build wants, what I stated will outdamage the Dawayna build. Just read the skill descriptions. If not convinced try it for yourself.

Coloneh · Sep 19, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

read the attributes. using lyssa requires you to spec into earth prayers or another healing attribute(to have a decent build). The thing I overlooked for a long time is that Dwanya builds only need myst and scythe mastery, its something to consider. Im not bashing lyssa, I love lyssa, In fact i tried to use it in this build, but dwanya just worked better.

and anther thing to evilsod. balling up foes works. almost everyone knows this. shut up if you have no idea what your talking about.

Perfected Shadow · Sep 19, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

read the attributes. using lyssa requires you to spec into earth prayers or another healing attribute(to have a decent build). The thing I overlooked for a long time is that Dwanya builds only need myst and scythe mastery, its something to consider.

I play Lyssa with no self healing. But as you've made a build for self sufficient pseudo-tanking+dmg dealing, Dwayna does the job well as it provides healing and hex removal. One thing to consider in your build though is when Pious Fury strips a prot spirit/spirit bond, which may lead to a monk blowing 20 energy.

Coloneh · Sep 20, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

two things.

the enchantment removal was already discussed. its more useful to have an Ias most of the time than to have prot spirit or something on you. In the rare case that you do need prot spirit then you will have to do without an IAS for a short time.

in my last post i said a decent build. a build with no healing is unacceptable to me. If you are playing on a team with henchmen then i dont care, but in a player team every character epically front line needs healing.

boarderx · Sep 20, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

bla bla bla

geez you really cant be nice and discuss things in a civil manor can you? I dont care if you come up with a build to solo everything you have lost all respect and credibility because you are being such a dick to ppl, imo.

Im sry but there is just better ways to talk about things then to simple hack up what everyone else says and put ppl dwn. gl with life acting like that

Pericles · Sep 23, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

After reading this entire thread (including Evilsod's and Coloneh's little debate there) i must say i have to support Evilsod. He simply was critical on some of the new skills and had VERY SOLID ARGUMENTS for it, (something Coloneh and Dan can NOT say). Evilsod convinced me on everything except radiant scythe, i still feel that the huge bonus damage you get is worth it.

Also plz people do not comment with sentences like these, it really pisses me off when people do that:

'This skill is freakin amazing because i think it is and it works for me even though there is solid evidence (yes ON PAPER!) that it doesn't.'

Thing is:
'It works for me' just doesn't do it in build discussion thread.

I also wonder why you don't put Aura of Eternal Might in there, i mean 'why not?', and HoF is way better than PF because it is 'controlled' and the burning comes in handy.

So here's a more ideal build, (don't take this the wrong way, i do think that it was a decent build, it just had few flaws and you should be enough of a man to admit that):
D/W
radiant scythe
eremites attack
lyssa's assault
whirlwind attack
Ava of Dwayna
Eternal aura
HoF
rez sig or heal sig/ whatever

Also now that you're /W i'd try to use Wild Blow, if you use it correctly you can still use whirlwind attack

Coloneh · Sep 23, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

yeah.... except the everything evilsod has said as a flaw basically comes down to "you cant ball up enemies" which is wrong. If you have problems balling up foes to I can see why youd agree with him. try manipulating the AI, use your brain against them.

also, I love wild blow but it just dosnt have a place here.
Farmer's scythe is HUGE spammable damage. cant lose that.
Zealous is Needed to keep up farmers and radiant. need it.
Radiant's damage spike is so powerful, Its not worth considering removing.
Whirlwind is free and hits all foes, also provides huge energy with zealous scythe.

WarKaster · Sep 24, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

well I finally tried some of the new skills...

Me likes radiant scythe especially as an opening attack....been getting upper 90 lower hundreds on most things.

Farmers comes in handy if you can get to the back line where most monks and casters stand together to hit 3 things at a time...no recharge time + 5 en = swing away

Haven't used zealous sweep - but with a 36 energy pool and a +5 en zealous scythe of enchanting i rarely run out of energy.

not say its not a good skill - i will give it a go and see how it does...but so far the skills are not as bad as EvilSod was making them sound. Granted they are situational but they work.

Coloneh · Sep 24, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Yes they are very situational, but like any situation skill. the key is to manipulate the situation.