Curse

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Aug 02, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I don't understand why Mind Wrack isn't more popular, it's fast acting, cheap, and does armor ignoring damage, pair this up with a energy sucking build and you have lockdown + just kill them outright (since they can't heal themselves).

Shrapnel_Magnet · Aug 02, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Mind Wrack, in my experience, is often a cover hex... not something that you count on for damage. Skills like Convert Hexes, however, chew through this.

OneArmedScissor · Aug 02, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonIT

I play a Mesmer/Monk as my second main character (Ranger/Ele the other). My Mesmer is almost totally Domination. My stats at level 19 are something like this:
Fast Cast: 9+1 Rune = (10)
Domination: 11+1 Hat +2 Rune = (14)
Healing: 4
And a few points in Illusion/Inspiration because they won't go anywhere else.

My skill bar for PvE usually looks something like this:
Power Spike (Interrupt + Damage)
Power Drain (Interrupt)
Energy Burn (Damage)
BackFire (Anti-Caster)
Chaos Storm (AoE damage)
Empathy (Anti-Warrior)
Shame (Anti-Offensive Caster)
Resurrection (Monk rez)

I find that with this build, I can run missions (with a group) fairly easily. Yes, I don't deal a lot of damage, but as you mention, using two interrupts plus Backfire plus Shame on those Chain Lightning whatever-they-ares, can really help keep the damage down so the monk can do their job and keep everyone alive. Interrupt one Chain Lightning, target next, interrupt Chain Lightning, target next, Shame, target next, BackFire, then back to the original one and beat on him and wait for energy recharge.

Using Energy Burn at Dom.14, I can deliver around 100 points of spike damage instantly if the need arises to get finish something quickly. Chaos Storm is also good for all those critters grouped up around the tank or monk.

Empathy is good against Minotaurs and such that have very high rates of attack. My empathy does around 30+ damage per attack I think.

One skill I switch out every now and then is Power Drain. I'll go for a Leech Signet (even with no points) or Cry of Frustration sometimes. That allows me to interrupt Troll Unguent or Healing Signet to help out against those warrior/ranger bosses, Jungle Trolls, etc. It really helps bring them down fast if you keep them from healing themselves.

Or, if we're going through some necro/mesmer monster areas, I'll bring along "Remove Hex" or "Shatter Hex" (Shatter is good, it does around 120 points of damage to all enemies around your ally).

Don't bother doing energy-denial builds in PvE in my opinion. Monsters seem to have near unlimited energy in my experience.

Maybe some of these ideas will help you. I really think that when Mesmers get really high up (Level 15+) you should be focusing on one attribute (like elementalists) and making sure you have at least 12 in that attribute.

These are just my observations though. "Your mileage may vary."

Interruption spells in PvE aren't worth it IMO. Sure it's good to have an interruption skill, but not 2. And if you're going to have an interruptor skill, Cry of Frustration is the best. It interrupts skills, not only spells.

Energy Burn does 80 damage at 14 domination. 8 x 10 = 80

Shatter Hex is a good spell. I will agree with you on this one.
A.) It removes a hex from an ally or yourself.
B.) It deals damage to all near by foes
C.) It has a quick recharge time

Also, Hex Breaker is good to bring when you know you'll be dealing with a lot of foes that are hex oriented. It lasts for a very long time, is activated instaniously, only costs 5 energy, protects yourself from hexes, and deals damage.

Monsters do not have unlimited energy. There energy is based on what type of monster they are (warrior, ranger, etc.). I've been playing an energy denial Mesmer build in PvE for over a month now and it works great. I farm the last mission in the game with my energy denial mesmer with henchies all the time.
If you believe monsters have unlimited energy, go to Old Ascalon. Whenever you run over that little hill in the beginning, those 2 scorpion monsters (Devourers) pop up. Cast Mind Wreck on one, then cast Spirit Shackles, Energy Drain, Energy Tap, or whatever energy denial spell you want. You will kill the monster with Mind Wrack. Consequently, proving monsters do not have unlimited energy.

Enjoi.

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Aug 02, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

But why not count on it for damage though? I mean it does 72 straight up damage for 5 mana! You might think well, that's only if they hit 0 within the next 20 seconds. Well, even without being energy drained, a player, any class can near zero energy. Even the slightest push can put them at 0 and take the 72. The point of the mind wrack build is not to deal blunt damage; it's to shut someone down and take advantage of it. You can spike a monk all you want, but unless you interrupt or disable his healing, he's going to live through those spikes.

Limp Wrist · Aug 04, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I've read through this thread and frankly I'm a bit disappointed. It is designed to offer Mesmer's the basics of their class yet nowhere is it talked about that Memsers are the best tanks in the game (at least IMHO). In fact a couple of people wrote about how poorly they deal with Pets or Warriors rushing them. So, I figure it's important to post my favorite Mesmer build.

Utility Tanking Mesmer

Fast Casting 5
Illusion 4
Domination 15 / 12 +1(mask) +2(major rune)
Inspiration 12 / 11 +1(minor rune)

Power Spike
Shatter Enchantment
Empathy
Backfire
Spirit of Failure
Distortion
Hex Breaker
Ether Feast

This build is designed with PvP in mind. Specifically it's designed for Warriors rushing you. Which is something they often do. (It might be wise to swap one slot out for a Rez Signet in the random arena, I took out Power Spike due to constant whines about not having a rez. But I want to post the original build.)

The utility portion is probably obvious. You can interrupt a cast for 100 damage. You can shatter enchantments for over 100 damage. You can shut down casters or often kill them when they try to cast thru your Backfire which does a good 142 damage. You can help your team who is being attacked by throwing Empathy on the opponant for an additional 30 damage every swing the opponant makes. All the while sitting in relative safety behind the Hex Breaker.

The true power of this build comes from it's melee defenses. When that warrior rushes you, just smile at yourself, throw on him a Spirit of Failure and start to spam Distortion. Stack Empathy on your attacker and watch his health bar drop steadily. If it's a W/Mo, he'll likely throw up an enchantment which you can shatter which often deals the final death blow.

Distortion gives 75% chance of evading an attack and with Illusion 4 that "evade" costs you 2 energy. Combining this with Spirit of Failure gives 25% chance of a pure miss and every missed attack gives you 4 energy (with Inspiration 12). This setup allows the Mesmer to stand there with very little chance of being hit all the while your energy is charging up 2 energy every miss. And for those opponants with Stance removal skills, Distortion recharges every 5 seconds so at the most your opponant might get two swings in on you which is easily healed via Ether Feast.

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a perfect build by any means. But I do personally love it and use it religiously.

Some of the weak points is you have no real offensive spells so you're not going to be doing any damage to anyone unless they attack you. Also, Rangers with whatever added damaging arrows will hurt you good, while the arrow itself misses the added damage does get through. As for going up against an Air Ele, well Backfire is 10 seconds on 10 seconds off, if you kept your Power Spike use it for a spell interrupt in that 10 seconds of downtime before you can cast BF again. Multiple Air Ele's or any Ele's for that matter isn't something you or anyone can contend with unless you are all interrupt.

The build can work well against 2 warriors at a time. Maybe three but when one breaks the stance they get to wack you hard a time or two before you can continue the Distortion spam.

While I think this build is easily perhaps the best one for Mesmers, I realize it's really only Spirit of Failure and Distortion that makes it a good build. So, just fill 2 slots in your bar with these and the other 6 which whatever you like and I guarentee you're PvPing experience will improve considerably.

knives · Aug 04, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Take out empathy for signet of midnight. Then you can deal with 2 warriors at a time.

OneArmedScissor · Aug 04, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limp Wrist

I've read through this thread and frankly I'm a bit disappointed. It is designed to offer Mesmer's the basics of their class yet nowhere is it talked about that Memsers are the best tanks in the game (at least IMHO). In fact a couple of people wrote about how poorly they deal with Pets or Warriors rushing them. So, I figure it's important to post my favorite Mesmer build.

Utility Tanking Mesmer

Fast Casting 5
Illusion 4
Domination 15 / 12 +1(mask) +2(major rune)
Inspiration 12 / 11 +1(minor rune)

Power Spike
Shatter Enchantment
Empathy
Backfire
Spirit of Failure
Distortion
Hex Breaker
Ether Feast

This build is designed with PvP in mind. Specifically it's designed for Warriors rushing you. Which is something they often do. (It might be wise to swap one slot out for a Rez Signet in the random arena, I took out Power Spike due to constant whines about not having a rez. But I want to post the original build.)

The utility portion is probably obvious. You can interrupt a cast for 100 damage. You can shatter enchantments for over 100 damage. You can shut down casters or often kill them when they try to cast thru your Backfire which does a good 142 damage. You can help your team who is being attacked by throwing Empathy on the opponant for an additional 30 damage every swing the opponant makes. All the while sitting in relative safety behind the Hex Breaker.

The true power of this build comes from it's melee defenses. When that warrior rushes you, just smile at yourself, throw on him a Spirit of Failure and start to spam Distortion. Stack Empathy on your attacker and watch his health bar drop steadily. If it's a W/Mo, he'll likely throw up an enchantment which you can shatter which often deals the final death blow.

Distortion gives 75% chance of evading an attack and with Illusion 4 that "evade" costs you 2 energy. Combining this with Spirit of Failure gives 25% chance of a pure miss and every missed attack gives you 4 energy (with Inspiration 12). This setup allows the Mesmer to stand there with very little chance of being hit all the while your energy is charging up 2 energy every miss. And for those opponants with Stance removal skills, Distortion recharges every 5 seconds so at the most your opponant might get two swings in on you which is easily healed via Ether Feast.

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a perfect build by any means. But I do personally love it and use it religiously.

Some of the weak points is you have no real offensive spells so you're not going to be doing any damage to anyone unless they attack you. Also, Rangers with whatever added damaging arrows will hurt you good, while the arrow itself misses the added damage does get through. As for going up against an Air Ele, well Backfire is 10 seconds on 10 seconds off, if you kept your Power Spike use it for a spell interrupt in that 10 seconds of downtime before you can cast BF again. Multiple Air Ele's or any Ele's for that matter isn't something you or anyone can contend with unless you are all interrupt.

The build can work well against 2 warriors at a time. Maybe three but when one breaks the stance they get to wack you hard a time or two before you can continue the Distortion spam.

While I think this build is easily perhaps the best one for Mesmers, I realize it's really only Spirit of Failure and Distortion that makes it a good build. So, just fill 2 slots in your bar with these and the other 6 which whatever you like and I guarentee you're PvPing experience will improve considerably.

You are not being an efficient team mate when you're just tanking Warriors and Pets, and not killing casters or doing any damage to any other targets.
Any decent player > this build.
You can run around laughing about how a warrior isn't killing you, etc. But the simply fact is, you aren't going to kill anyone with this build.

Limp Wrist · Aug 05, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

You are not being an efficient team mate when you're just tanking Warriors and Pets, and not killing casters or doing any damage to any other targets.
Any decent player > this build.
You can run around laughing about how a warrior isn't killing you, etc. But the simply fact is, you aren't going to kill anyone with this build.

You seem to have only read one paragraph from my post. My build is a utility build that has a fantastic tanking componant. Two skills dedicated to tanking and not just tanking but generating energy. The remaining skills go to whatever.

To me, a Mesmer should not have to run from Warriors or Pets or Rangers. They should not have to rely on the group monk to keep them alive. They should be able to hold their own as well as offer as much to their team that they can. A Mesmer should not be a liability and my build keeps the pure Mesmer from being one.

Regardless, it's just a build that I use and I posted it because this thread is designed to offer Mesmers the basics of their class. Tanking should not be left out and no longer is.

People are more then free to take my build and tweak it so that it fits their play style. In fact, people should do just that. I do hope no one is taking builds from these forums and using them as "cookie cutter" builds.

Enigmatics · Aug 05, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

You have a warrior/monk, don't you.

octaviancmb · Aug 07, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

This post discusses the maximization of the Mesmer profession (primary or secondary) through the use of Arcane Mimicry.

Planning your mesmer is key to success in both PvE and organized PvP. Mesmer primaries and secondaries are the only professions able to regularly utilize two elite skills on their bar at once. (Sometimes 3 or 4 elites, but that just gets silly.)

PvE & PUGs

One of the first things I do when setting out with a PUG or with my favorite henchmen is look at the whole party's primary and secondary professions. If any of the party members share a profession with me, I'll ask them, "Hey you, what elite are you running?" If I'm running as Mes/Mo (or the reverse), chances are the protection Monk has Shield of Regeneration (quite handy). If I'm Mes/El, pretty much any of the Elementalist elites are great (Glyph of Energy, Elemental Attunement are particularly handy to use alongside Arcane Mimicry, b/c of their effect or duration and the AM cooldown). Necro: ditto the elementalist.

Ideally you'll want to copy something that's either great as a one-shot or spammable: Glyph of Energy or Barrage, for instance. Once you know that a party member is running skill X, you can plan your strategy around them. One very successful strategy I employ in the UW and FoW is to copy one of the Ele's Echos rather than take it myself (the "echo nuker" being a popular profession combination). If you have two other Ele/Me in the party, ask that one of them run Echo and AM, the second run Elemental Attunement and AM, and you'll be running Glyph of Energy and AM (or any variation of the three). Then it's just a "take what you need when you need it" situation. It also works well with Mantra of Recovery on any given party member (or yourself).

If you're using henchmen (which, if you're a primary Mesmer, you'll usually do a lot, since the world is full of idiots who do not understand us), you can plan to copy the following elites from your henchman friends:

Lina: Shield of Regeneration
Durham: Crippling Anguish
Mhenlo: Word of Healing
Aidan: Practiced Stance
Eve: Greneth's Balance
Devona & Little Thom: Charge
Cynn: Mind Burn

Now for organized PvP what Arcane Mimicry means is that for *any* Mesmer primary or secondary profession in your group, that party member can *plan* to be able to use TWO elite skills. If you thought the Mes/Nec fragility build worked well solo, just imagine what you can do with two of them using both Virilence *and* Ineptitude. ...and that's just one example. It doesn't take a genius to figure out other very, very potent combinations. (R/Me copying Oath Shot so that each of them has *two* copies going at once, etc...)

The one caveat of this strategy is that you'll need to work out an energy management solution, since running AM is not cheap paired up with some of those elites. Happily, you're running Mesmer skills, so energy management is not an issue.

For my next Mesmer article, expect a post on energy management.

Good luck with your Mesmers!
CMB

vnvnation · Aug 08, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Mesmer / ranger

Dom 12 + 2 major rune
Inspiration 12 + 1 + 3 = 16 hat + superior rune
fast casting 7 (i think now im in the work)

1 - Energy drain (elite)
2 - Ether lord
3 - energy tap
4 - Minds wrack
5 - backfire
6 - wastrels worry
7 - diversion
8 - res signet

my combo is cast on the target the backfire then the wastrels, and go with the mind's energy drain, energy tap and if i have energy problems cast the ether lord, the diversion is for the elementalist and necromancers, and other mesmers,

can i say that my mesmer is a shutdown mesmer?? xD reply plz

octaviancmb · Aug 08, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnvnation

Mesmer / ranger

Dom 12 + 2 major rune
Inspiration 12 + 1 + 3 = 16 hat + superior rune
fast casting 7 (i think now im in the work)

1 - Energy drain (elite)
2 - Ether lord
3 - energy tap
4 - Minds wrack
5 - backfire
6 - wastrels worry
7 - diversion
8 - res signet

my combo is cast on the target the backfire then the wastrels, and go with the mind's energy drain, energy tap and if i have energy problems cast the ether lord, the diversion is for the elementalist and necromancers, and other mesmers,

can i say that my mesmer is a shutdown mesmer?? xD reply plz

Most people would classify you as energy denial rather than true "shut down." The thing I like most about your build is its diversity. You can control the battleground: energy deny one guy, backfire another, diversion a third, and then stop warrior and ranger regen in their tracks with Ether Lord.

One skill I *might* swap (and it's totally up to you) is Wastrels for Energy Burn. You'll lose the "cover hex" (or, these days, the "pre-hex" to siphon their hex breakers) and the spamability that Wastrels offers you, but it will benefit your energy denial a bit more. It's not a "better" choice, by any stretch though.

Good luck with your build.
CMB

Enigmatics · Aug 08, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I'll j ust say that, since mesmers are either first or second priorities these days, the abovementioned build is less versatile than it sounds; you can't be doing your job when you're being gang-banged by warriors.

Limp Wrist · Aug 09, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Most people would classify you as energy denial rather than true "shut down." The thing I like most about your build is its diversity. You can control the battleground: energy deny one guy, backfire another, diversion a third, and then stop warrior and ranger regen in their tracks with Ether Lord.

One skill I *might* swap (and it's totally up to you) is Wastrels for Energy Burn. You'll lose the "cover hex" (or, these days, the "pre-hex" to siphon their hex breakers) and the spamability that Wastrels offers you, but it will benefit your energy denial a bit more. It's not a "better" choice, by any stretch though.

Good luck with your build.
CMB

Another option is Spirit Shackles. This with Mind Wrack is fairly effective at stopping most Warriors and Rangers unless they want to take serious damage by continuing to swing at someone.

I personally don't know how effective Ether Lord is with it having such a low duration. And with your two energy drains I can see you're not using Ether Lord for the energy buff. So you could remove it. I bet without much impact on your build. Unless the sole purpose is to drain spellcasters then slap on Ether Lord and Mind Wrack to zap them everytime your drains recharge. But even then you'd only get damage twice because Ether Lord wouldn't last longer then the two drains recharging.

Enigmatics · Aug 09, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Ether Lord gives you 4 pips of energy regen at level 16; it's a non-elite BiP to use when you're down to 5 energy.

Aug 09, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Ether Lord is not a non-elite bip. Not even close.

Limp Wrist · Aug 09, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

Ether Lord gives you 4 pips of energy regen at level 16; it's a non-elite BiP to use when you're down to 5 energy.

I don't have a superior Insp rune to test this out but all reference materials show the energy increase to be 1-3 and the duration 5-10.

Enigmatics · Aug 10, 2005, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Never mind, it is 3 pips. I just tested it.

vnvnation · Aug 10, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

well. i use Lord for add the degeneration effect on rangers and warriors with minds wrack and some energy denials..
And is cheap (5 energy cost), During ten seconds I have + 7 energy regeneration (3 + 4) and in 10 seconds get around 15 points of energy, but ether lord doesn’t the best skill in the build ^^, now I think that I can replace E.L for Signet of Weariness

Opinions?

- Ether lord
+ Signet of weariness.

Laetitia of Yenemi · Aug 10, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I know this has probably be talked about before, but what about a ME/W for PvE. Here is my thought. Since Illusionary Weaponry says the damage output is set, and there is no worry about armor, you can focus all you attributes on Mesmer skills (maybe a few in tactics if you want a shield). You can get use your starter axe with Illusionary Weaponry and Cyclone Axe to do around the same damage as if you dropped 12 points into Axe Mastery. Even your Swift Chop to disrupt would be shutdown/interupt like for the mesmer AND still do the IW damage. Bonetti's Defense would help with energy recovery and put with cyclone axe in a large group, it shouldn't be to hard to get the adrenaline for it. I play a R/Me and W/Mo now so don't know how well this will really work, but ever since my Ranger capped IW I have been thinking about it.

Laetitia of Yenemi