Curse

Str0b0 · Oct 06, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The other 10 or 15e skill won't cause as much damage as the echoed elite will.

Reckless Haste exists but don't forget you need to cast it *twice* to cover one use of SS. It's been nerfed more or less into oblivion - a 15e adjacent-AoE spell causing a higher miss rate for 12 seconds. Reckless will also not increase the damage output in hard mode.

First of all 10 seconds isn't exactly a short recharge time. Second, if you can choose, do you prefer killing fast or killing slow? Third, you forget that Arcane Echo isn't just utility for SS but for your entire bar, almost whatever spells you bring.

I'm sorry arcane echo just seems pointless to me. Reckless haste is pointless in HM,except for running PoF, because they already have an attack and movement speed buff. Very rarely do I actually have to wait for the entire 10 second recharge. More often than not the HRT mod kicks in and it's only a 5 second recharge. I prefer to use Price of Failure in place of echo just because I can spread it around about as effectively as I can spread SS around because the HRT mod helps so much. Then with all the missing they are doing and SS triggering prior to the skill actually going off you're looking at pretty much the same damage output. Try it sometime. With the right mods on your staff or wand and focus whichever you prefer it's possible to run without arcane echo.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 06, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

The problem with running ss/echo is that you go n/me instead of n/e.

Moloch Vein · Oct 06, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

It's completely pointless to go N/E instead of N/Me for SS or SV in PvE.

Even with two HSR mods the chance of halving skill recharge time isn't 40%.

Price of Failure is a hopeless spell for general PvE usage in an SS build. The recharge is 20 seconds, the cast time and cost same as SS, and introduces a measly 25% miss chance on a single target with a conditional damage on it that doesn't even beat SS by much.

_Of course_ you can run SS without Arcane. All I'm saying is running SS with Arcane increases your damage output, your killing speed and your value to the team by enough that I find it wise never to leave home without it, unless I need to go /Mo or /Rt.

Longasc · Oct 06, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I usually run

1. SS
2. Reckless Haste
3. Mark of Pain
4. Enfeebling Blood
5. Desecrate Enchantments
6. Barbs
7. Signet of Lost Souls
8. Necrosis

No Rez for me. I carry Death Pact Signets on my Rangers/Paragons and MM that are usually my Heroes.

I usually go for teams full of physical attackers, ideally ranged. I use a dual 20/20 Curses Focus/Wand and a +60 +5^50 Soul Reaping Staff and have 2 headgears, Sup+Minor Curses.

I see no need to echo SS either, and Reckless Haste is a great AoE Hex that helps vs all kinds of physical attackers. If you do not want it, get Insidious Parasite instead of it. I still prefer Reckless Haste.

Marverick · Oct 06, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I'm sorry arcane echo just seems pointless to me. Reckless haste is pointless in HM,except for running PoF, because they already have an attack and movement speed buff. Very rarely do I actually have to wait for the entire 10 second recharge. More often than not the HRT mod kicks in and it's only a 5 second recharge. I prefer to use Price of Failure in place of echo just because I can spread it around about as effectively as I can spread SS around because the HRT mod helps so much. Then with all the missing they are doing and SS triggering prior to the skill actually going off you're looking at pretty much the same damage output. Try it sometime. With the right mods on your staff or wand and focus whichever you prefer it's possible to run without arcane echo.

I'm sorry but an AoE 50% miss chance is pointless?

Stormlord Alex · Oct 06, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

eep, don't post late at night... EDIT

Moloch Vein · Oct 07, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

The AoE range on Reckless Haste is very small and the duration is short.

netniwk · Oct 07, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

curses is indeed verry Ftw,i run a three necro team(me+2H). I play the SS(the Ai cant handle this verry well) olias is the MM, and master of whispers spikes with icy veins and putrid bile.Needles to say,we rush through anything.

FalconDance · Oct 07, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Mali just degen Curses the foe to death with up to -16 (if that's possible, that is, since that's the total possible with the skills she pops off). It's a Rinse and Repeat usually for the next one until they're all gone.

Str0b0 · Oct 08, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Well you can post -16 degen on a foe but it only works with -10 at a time. Now those extra degen pips do count against any regen applied. So if you had -16 total and they had a +6 heal they would still be suffering from -10 degen.

Coloneh · Oct 08, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Even with two HSR mods the chance of halving skill recharge time isn't 40%.

your right. its 36% with a 4% chance of fourth recharge time.

CHUIU · Oct 09, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Echo + SS is pointless with the right equipment. The recharge is not unmangeable and basically all you do is put a 15e skill in your bar that isn't going to be directly adding to your damage output. With a HRT mod on my curses staff I'm able to spread SS around just as effectively as an echo SS build can without killing my energy with that unnecessary expenditure for the echo spell. Perhaps I'm just ignorant but I thought the whole point was to make the enemies die fast, as fast as possible so they can't kill you. I'd rather have more direct damage than a limited copy of a skill I already have in my bar. MoP causes about the same scatter as SS now BTW. That update is ages old. People kept whining about it so they finally made SS cause the scatter effect as well.

Right, well groups of enemies die in the time that the first SS recharges so I'm pretty sure echo'ing it would be far more efficient than relying on a 20% or 2 20% recharge items to make it recharge faster. It seems whatever group setup you're using doesn't kill things as fast so I guess your method works for what you're doing.

Kale Ironfist · Oct 09, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

your right. its 36% with a 4% chance of fourth recharge time.

Can't break half recharge. So in the end, it's still 40% chance to halve recharge.

Str0b0 · Oct 09, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Well not exactly. Think of it this way. The game rolls a 10 sided die every time you cast a spell for each instance of HSR and every time the die comes up 1 or 2 the spell recharges in half the time. They don't stack. If you had 2 20% HSR mods then the game would roll that die 2 times. Each roll would still have that base chance you just have 2 opportunities to get the half skill recharge.

I know how the HSR works. My point is that I honestly only rarely get the chance to use my echoed SS. Most of the time the team has decimated the enemy group to the point that spreading it would be pointless so more often than not it is a wasted skill slot. I prefer to put something else in there instead, usually PoF and just stack on one target at a time as the targeting focus of the party shifts. For this sort of play style a single HSR mod works just fine and the damage output is more than sufficient. A majority of groups just pick the most threatening target first, call it then C or Tab as necessary to acquire a new target to call so my build and play style functions quite well in your average group. The only time I Echo SS is in the Deep where the enemies are more numerous and don't tend to die as quickly. then the echoed SS actually gets used effectively.

Moloch Vein · Oct 09, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

The chance to get any lowering of recharge time with a 20/20 set is 36% and not 40%.

I believe they call it "mathematics".

Kale Ironfist · Oct 09, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The chance to get any lowering of recharge time with a 20/20 set is 36% and not 40%.

I believe they call it "mathematics".

You're forgetting the quarter (both chances trigger) recharge, which can't break the 50% recharge limit imposed by ArenaNet. Saying 36% is correct is assuming that the 4% of quarter recharge (which subsequently becomes only a half due to a hard limit) is IGNORED.

It's not ignored, so your "mathematics" is flawed.

Longasc · Oct 09, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Kale, not sure about your mathematics.

4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)

The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.

As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.

-- Plz go back to the topic! --

Coloneh · Oct 09, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

when was this half recharge update? i never saw any evidence, and i know back when i played my ss heavily i got quarter recharge plenty of times.

Longasc · Oct 09, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20060713

13. July 2006.

Fairly hard to find, most players still do not know that armor buffs no longer stack above 24. And nobody can blame them for that, it is mentioned nowhere.

Kale Ironfist · Oct 10, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Kale, not sure about your mathematics.

4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)

The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.

As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.

-- Plz go back to the topic! --

I was reading Coloneh's post wrong, my bad.