Curse

Bobby2 · Sep 09, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

This Elite is hardly ever used... while it seems like a good choice to me. Shadow Prison Sins are considered to be very powerful, but SP requires a substantial investment in Deadly Arts, while SW can be run with a more robust CritS/DaggM/ShadA build. It recharges much faster than SP, and there are other ways to gain entry. I've had decent success in ABing with:

[skill]Seeping Wound[/skill][skill]Black Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill][skill]Falling Spider[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill][skill]Shadow of Haste[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill]

When I get NF it'll probably be changed to

[skill]Seeping Wound[/skill][skill]Black Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Blades of Steel[/skill][skill]Shadow Refuge[/skill][skill]Shadow of Haste[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill]

...unless anyone can offer me some advice. Damage potential is insane, I've witnessed that already. The 'Blind = GG Sin' statement also doesn't apply to this build as there are means to get out of combat fast. In the context of ABing, Dash and Shadow Refuge are excellent stand-alone skills, enabling the Sin to get around very fast and quickly get up to full health when out of danger. Things I don't like are the lack of a snare (though SoA's speed boost makes up for that to a degree) and the lack of an interrupt in the second build (which I still consider to be more powerful, the speed with which it kills might well be enough).

There's a larger time window for the opponent to remove it, that's a given. But one doesn't have to commit fully after hexing the opponent; there's still time to back out and quickly hex someone else

Never mind the gratitude from the Rangers in my party

- Cheaper
- Faster recharge
- Still the option for Shadow Arts' good utility skills

When you look at it this way, isn't Seeping Wound more powerful (practical) than Shadow Prison?

lacasner · Sep 09, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

SP= Snare and shadowstep

Seeping wound=degen

Nuff said.

X Cytherea X · Sep 09, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

it doesnt suck. when you get nightfall, you can also swap shadow of haste for shadow walk and voila you can teleport as well

Bobby2 · Sep 09, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

@ lacasner:
Noted. Now how would one get out with an SP Sin if things go awry (by Blinders, blockers, Hex removal etc.)? And can they still do as much damage without skipping on a self-heal?

Investing in Deadly Arts instead of Shadow Arts has proven a major deterrent, at least to me. When one has Twisting Fangs there's no need for Impale, so to speak. And SW allows support from a distance to your Rangers and other degen specialists. I run 13 CritS, meaning that a hexed enemy will suffer 4 pips of extra degen (8HP/sec). That's nothing to be sniffed at.

@ Cytherea:
Seen that

I hadn't factored it in yet because I do not know whether I'll miss SoA's speed boost (and the fact that SoA's attack run is waaay cool). But I'll be sure to try! The downside is that I can't cast Enchantments for 30sec, so no Shadow Refuge. On the other hand, going Ranger secondary, putting the 8 from Shadow Arts into Wilderness Survival, allows for a good Troll Unguent. Less of an in-combat heal, of course, but more health gain (unconditional!) for my energy

Thanks for inciting me to figure that one out!

craigrs84 · Sep 10, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

i know you are trying to avoid deadly arts, but a lot of times it can't be avoided. one option is to cut back on critical strikes (although it doesnt work very well with your particular build), maybe go 3 critical strikes, and boost deadly arts instead. if you want degen, i am finding enduring toxin to be usesful. it can go up to -5, casts in 1/4 sec, and doesnt require poison/bleeding. it also adds pressure for the enemy not to run, or if they do run it can degen them until they die. main thing though, its not an elite, so you can save keep more important skills like shadow prison, or mobieus, etc.

GWEN added 2 new options for energy management that are not critical strikes attribute and its pretty nice...

xaleo21 · Sep 10, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

eSeeping Wound is fun... degen is fun... like setting Ranger traps and watching Charmables walk into 'em and dying...
But direct dmg things... "spiking"(?) are the prime of assassinanation.
Like Death Blossom and eMoebius Strike or Repeating Strike and eWay of the Empty Palm.

Coloneh · Sep 10, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

get a better elite and you could have a decent build.

Bobby2 · Sep 10, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

@ craig:

I can see where you're taking this, and it's a direction I'll most definitely try sometime. But I started out searching for a build that could abuse the Black offhands without dipping into Deadly, and I won't admit defeat so easily!

@ xaleo:

C'mon. Mass degen is just as much a Sin's forte as raw damage, and shouldn't be mutually exclusive! 20HP/sec adds up fast. I consider this just as much a form of spiking. Besides, Blades of Steel pwns DB when it comes to raw damage, TF gives Deep Wound (free damage) and those Blacks aren't too shabby either!

@ Coloneh:

It seems that each time I see your name, you blurt out an unsupported opinion, not constructive in the least. Either change your attitude or do not bother to answer my questions anymore.

Yanman.be · Sep 10, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Where would you used this? I see no res.

BlackSephir · Sep 10, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

You don't see it used often because it's 4 degen... conditional, hex.
Take Conjure Phantasm >_>

SotiCoto · Sep 10, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Where would you used this? I see no res.

He said he used it in Alliance Battles....
And presumably it works for Fort Aspenwood as well...
And yes... even PvE if you're desperate (though slightly overkill there), where a res signet on an Assassin is a total waste of a slot.

I very much doubt it is designed for high-end PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

@ Coloneh:

It seems that each time I see your name, you blurt out an unsupported opinion, not constructive in the least. Either change your attitude or do not bother to answer my questions anymore.

Coloneh is just an antagonist. He never has anything constructive to say, so no point in replying to him I'd say.

moko · Sep 10, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You don't see it used often because it's 4 degen... conditional, hex.
Take Conjure Phantasm >_>

wins the thread. lol hi

shit elite, ok? get over it..

Bobby2 · Sep 10, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Take Conjure Phantasm >_>

I admit defeat.

Back to the drawing board... thread can be locked. Thanks you all!

BlackSephir · Sep 10, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

On the other side I wonder when they will make Seeping Wound useful... If they will.

Azrayel · Sep 10, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Don't give up yet!!! How bout..

[wiki]Seeping Wound[/wiki] [wiki]Black Spider Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Jagged Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Wild Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Death Blossom[/wiki] [wiki]Critical Defenses[/wiki] [wiki]Critical Agility[/wiki] [wiki]Mystic Regeneration[/wiki]

As you can tell it is a PvE build (sorry it's all I play) it gives you the option of 2 combos. The second is a quick recharge so you can pretty much spam it. Pretty easy to figure out how it runs. I usually like to have [wiki]Dash[/wiki] equipped so you could swap out [wiki]Critical Defenses[/wiki] but I wouldn't suggest it.

Sqube · Sep 10, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

And yes... even PvE if you're desperate (though slightly overkill there), where a res signet on an Assassin is a total waste of a slot.

I just had to take issue with that one. As a matter of principle, I've been trying to beat Hell's Precipice with a PuG. Let the record show that I have been the last person alive more often than not, and the fact that I had Restore Life meant that the team could come back after a near-wipe and continue on.

BlackSephir · Sep 10, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azrayel

Don't give up yet!!! How bout..

[wiki]Seeping Wound[/wiki] [wiki]Black Spider Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Jagged Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Wild Strike[/wiki] [wiki]Death Blossom[/wiki] [wiki]Critical Defenses[/wiki] [wiki]Critical Agility[/wiki] [wiki]Mystic Regeneration[/wiki]

As you can tell it is a PvE build (sorry it's all I play) it gives you the option of 2 combos. The second is a quick recharge so you can pretty much spam it. Pretty easy to figure out how it runs. I usually like to have [wiki]Dash[/wiki] equipped so you could swap out [wiki]Critical Defenses[/wiki] but I wouldn't suggest it.

You know, you can just run Assassin's Promise, Dark Prison, Black Lotus Strike, Twisting Fangs, Black Spider Strike, Blades of Steel, Critical Agility and Crticial Defenses in pve...
Repeatable black-sin, what more do you want? And you're even using useful elite this way too!

Azrayel · Sep 10, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I agree BlackSephir, the only issue is that running that build in certain areas where poison, bleeding, deep wound is ineffective. For the record the above idea I posted was a build around seeping wound to help the OP. I just like comming up with build ideas, never know when the next best thing will come along =)

Coloneh · Sep 10, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

yeah i pretty much just hate everything. especially elites that give 4 conditional degen. why would you bring that. i wouldnt even being it as a non-elite.

Diddy bow · Sep 10, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

[skill]Seeping Wound[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill][skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Impale[/skill][skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill][skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Just dont put much in shadow arts dont really need it. and if you dont understand how it works just run your hand down the keyboard you can all do that right

. Why take it over a sp sin? well... you can use half of the "spike" at range as a counter to fleeing foes, for RA if anything where healing isnt so good and its not neccecery to kill so quick. Also goes round block/blind by the time your opponent activats them

. Not great and hasnt been upgraded in a long time but still fun XD.