Curse

TGgold · Jun 25, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Well, I like signets....and that's basically what inspired my top secret mesmer signet build of doom. Seriously.

I think this is the attribute spread I had going on...Insp may be lower, I can't remember.

Dom- 11+1+3
Insp-10+1
Smiting- 9
Fast Casting- 6+1

[skill]Keystone Signet[/skill][skill]Bane Signet[/skill][skill]Unnatural Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Humility[/skill][skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill][skill]Holy Wrath[/skill]

I think it's a fun build to use. I use it in AB a lot. Bane Sig is just for the knockdown, especially on NPC monks that like to wand things...

Test it out, see if you like it. I know I do =)

Dean Harper · Jun 25, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

The problem I have with this is it has no self Healing.... I dont like signet builds because they dont have much versatility. I dont have KS so i cant try it, but im not gonna put it down or anything.... yet.... XD, jk.

-Dean

Div · Jun 25, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I remember you can have attribute spread of either 11-11-10 or 11-10-10. With this you might as well put some into fast casting as well, but I don't really see the point of this bar. It's not very good at interrupting, can't do much damage, and you won't be able to maintain mantra once you start taking damage due to holy wrath unless you switch weapon sets.

TGgold · Jun 25, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I remember you can have attribute spread of either 11-11-10 or 11-10-10. With this you might as well put some into fast casting as well, but I don't really see the point of this bar. It's not very good at interrupting, can't do much damage, and you won't be able to maintain mantra once you start taking damage due to holy wrath unless you switch weapon sets.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I do actually have 7 (6+1) in Fastcasting. Totally forgot.

Unfortunately, you didn't test the bar and you have no idea at how to use it. This is a bar designed to be used in a team to take out called targets. I don't feel like I should have to explain how it works, but I will now because some people don't test things for themselves.

When dealing with melee units, you follow the call. Bane Signet->Unnatural Signet->Keystone Signet->Bane Signet->Unnatural Signet. It's basically 200 damage in about 4 seconds, plus 2 KDs. Most of the time a melee unit will attempt to heal. Prepare Leech sig (if it's healing signet, troll ungent, etc) to bash their self heal.

Against casters, it's useually easier. After the first Bane Sig->Unnatural Sig they'll useually use a self-heal, which is when you use Sig of Disruption. Wait about a second for them to try to save themselves again, leech sig. Then Keystone Sig, and repeat.

Holy Wrath at 9 smiting maxes at...32 damage I think. It's basically like having empathy on sins, dervs, and warriors that attack you. Also, maintain it on your monk/resto-rit, or whatever other high priority target there may be. If you get into the situation where you absolutely need to refresh mantra of inscriptions, then feel free to stop maintaining for about 2 seconds, leech sig somebody, cast mantra, cast holy wrath again, and then keep trucking along.

The lack of a self heal is evident, but really, when you would *need* a self-heal you'd have no energy to use it due to holy wrath. This is why I normally bring a friendly monk/resto-rit along that I know. On the other hand, by interrupting skills and applying knockdown, it's a type of prevention in itself.

Using all Artificer's Insignia on my armor, I have 78AL. I then use Superior Vigor and a Hale Staff of Fortitude (+60hp), to bring me around 525HP.

This build is very good at interrupting specific skills at crucial points. Also, if for some reason you cannot come up with 10e every 70 seconds, there's probably a problem with how you play. That, or just keep a +15/-1 set on you.

The biggest problem for this build is when you're caught off guard by a sin, or if more than 1 sin attack you. Signet of humility deals with most threats nicely. They'll kill themselves via your holy wrath. You bane sig them and if messes up their combo. They get annoyed, then they go find a new target. Of course, when 2 sins are on you you can only pray for your life, or that you have a monk in your team.

XvArchonvX · Jun 25, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quite frankly a ranger with [skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill] and [skill]Distracting Shot[/skill] will have more interuption power, more damage, and more defense (due to higher AL). Not only this, but they also have 5 empty skill slots to use to do other things.

I would like to see a good signet based mesmer bar, especially since the buff to FC, but I really don't think that this is it.

King's Spectre · Jun 25, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

I can see how this bar could really mess up a lot of AB squads. If you also have a SS necro on the team you can make opposing melee teams just explode.

TGgold · Jun 25, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Quite frankly a ranger with [skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill] and [skill]Distracting Shot[/skill] will have more interuption power, more damage, and more defense (due to higher AL). Not only this, but they also have 5 empty skill slots to use to do other things.

I would like to see a good signet based mesmer bar, especially since the buff to FC, but I really don't think that this is it.

First: I have 78AL base AL. Rangers have 70AL. Rangers have AL vs. Elemental damage, I just...don't let them cast spells.

Second: My interrupts don't cost energy and have the same basic recharge as the ones you listed due to keystone signet.

Third: Poison arrow has nothing to do with anything.

Fourth: I deal armor ignoring damage, rangers do not. I also knockdown, which, once again, rangers do not.

Fifth: I disable elite skills. Rangers, once again, do not.

I'm just seeing this trend that you don't understand where this build is going or what it's designed to do. The ranger you mentioned most certainly does NOT play the same role in a team as this mesmer.

Skycluster · Jun 25, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Archon I think most rangers carry those skills anyways? They potentially do more dmg...to spellcasters, and only if you get the interupt in. 5 more skills is pretty good.. but lets focus on the mesmer.

I should try this looks fun -_-. But I feel people are focusing soo much on signets , that they don't realize they cost no energy, I think they should combine high energy skills with signets to work more effectively. (But i guess this is where holy wraith comes in) Good use of Keystone. But a build I really want too see play is Signet of Illusion, obviously its buffed but I just have no idea how to make a build around it.

TGgold · Jun 25, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skycluster

Archon I think most rangers carry those skills anyways? They potentially do more dmg...to spellcasters, and only if you get the interupt in. 5 more skills is pretty good.. but lets focus on the mesmer.

I should try this looks fun -_-. But I feel people are focusing soo much on signets , that they don't realize they cost no energy, I think they should combine high energy skills with signets to work more effectively. (But i guess this is where holy wraith comes in) Good use of Keystone. But a build I really want too see play is Signet of Illusion, obviously its buffed but I just have no idea how to make a build around it.

I use Holy Wrath Instead of high cost skills, because...well..I can. If you wanted to go a different secondary, forgo Bane Signet, add a new signet of your choice, and then a high cost spell/skill, feel free to do so. (Possibly Necromancer would be the next best choice for secondary I would think, continuing with an armor ignoring damage theme).

On Sig of Illusion, I actualyl jsut bought it with Faction. But I still don't know how to really use it effectively. There are very few times where I would want to use skills from more than 2 or 3 lines, so it never has really occurred to me to use it. I suppose it would combine well maybe with some elementalist skills, allowing you to get the 16 in the attribute of your favorite skills, but not face any real drawbacks. (Ex: Taking Sig of Illusion and Lightning Orb if you wanted to help in a spike, but not devote al of your skillpoints to Air Magic). I'll play with it more some time.

Robin_Anadri · Jun 29, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Just a note, you don't need to have any energy to maintain holy wrath. As long as you have 1 pip of regen, you can maintain it.

Build looks interesting, i'll have to try it. Although I would prefer, I think, to put points in fast casting since it speeds signet cast now. Probably pull some points out of Inspiration.

stueyman2099 · Jul 03, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

Just a note, you don't need to have any energy to maintain holy wrath. As long as you have 1 pip of regen, you can maintain it.

You can maintain holy wrath as long as you aren't degenerating energy. No pips wither way will work.

Themis · Jul 12, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Nice build TGold, thanks for explaining. i'll give it a try.

Moloch Vein · Jul 19, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I would drop all points in smiting prayers in favor of FC and maybe something else.

TGgold · Jul 19, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I would drop all points in smiting prayers in favor of FC and maybe something else.

No, no you wouldn't. If you play the build you'll see why. The fact you can maintan Holy Wrath while using this build is vital...plus, what else would you put it in that has better synergy? Smiting in this build is kind of important...even for the meager damage increase on bane signet it's worth having....

PS: Fastcasting really isn't all too vital...most of the sigs cast fast enough to start with, and the 7 Fastcasting I have is plenty to increase the speeds.

Terra Xin · Jul 21, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Cool build.

I just wanna break your build down a little so it makes sense to me. Keystone forces all other signets to have a fixed recharge of 20 seconds + casting time of Keystone. It also allows you to use a signet up to two times in 20 seconds (So one can assume that you effectively have a 50% recharge on all other signets). With the addition of MoI, it cuts the recharge time of Keystone to almost half, and that causes all other skills to equally have that recharge time reduction, (which makes the recharge times of Leech Signet and Unnatural Signet reduce significantly).

So... really, you have signets that all have a recharge time of 5 seconds... More accurately... you are able to use signets twice within 10 second intervals (assuming MoI reduces it by half, at rank 15)

I've tried Holy Wrath + Signets and Holy Wrath on its own is very very deadly. Which means that the only weakness to this build is enchantment removal... that... and [skill=text]Rust[/skill] :P

The only signet build that I've used is fairly common. I think... I only play Mesmer builds that I make myself anyways :P

Div · Jul 21, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

If this is an AB build, then its weakness is the lack of running skills. A domination or illusion mesmer can output similar (if not greater) pressure in terms of both consistent and conditional damage. It's not a bad build for AB, as I've seen much worse, but there are definitely builds that are much more versatile and useful in both 1v1, team, and capping situations.

For example, a monk would laugh when going up against that bar. They'd be much more annoyed with something like a BHA apply ranger with savage and dshot.

Terra Xin · Jul 21, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

A lot of monks that I've come across use builds that rely enormously on their elite skill. I can see this build isn't designed for anti-monking, but just that one skill disabled can cripple a monk harshly, and you'd have other teammate that can take him down as well. I don't see the problems in versatility, leech and disruption have a recharge of 10-12 seconds and can be used twice in that period based on the design of this build. You can use Humility to shut down two targets' elite skills for a good period of time.

TGgold · Jul 22, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I don't think people are getting when to use this build.

Of course a BHA ranger would be better against a monk...but also gimped against a warrior.

This isn't something you can do haphazardly. It's main use is in AB, and you need a team that communicates. You need to know exactly what you need to be doing at all points. Being able to pump out a ton of armor ignoring damage in a short time is useful regardless of the opponent. Pre-empting a self-heal is also important. Knowing WHO to cast Holy Wrath on WHEN is important. Everything is very specific as to when it needs to be used.

Most of the time, I don't bother with sig of humility if I can aid in a spike to help take the target down. If I know there's a monk support, I let the rest of the team spike, I sig of humility the (almost constantly...) ZB monk beforehand, and then get my two interrupts ready. The spike target WILL die without the monk support.

For general purposes? I suppose other builds can be easier to run. I have no problem interrupting, so I choose this way as opposed to the mostly fire-and-forget mentality of Chocking Gas and BHA rangers. (My reaction speed is around .2-.25 seconds in almost all the testing I did...).

I've always had the philosophy that I'd rather have inconsistant pressure as LONG as I can turn the choke points, and this is what the build does.

As a side note, I normally run this with an SS necro and laugh at Melee units. The Necro useually has Defile and Desecrate (more AL ignoring damage...) to help damage. SS allows Sig of Disruption to trigger on any skill. The other two slots are optional. Deep wound on one is a must, and some form of healing on one is also a must for the most part.

DokkyDok · Jul 27, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I'm glad to see signets being played around with, and I don't really see why paticular people (I wont mention any names...) tend to worm into random threads and post what seems like logic but actually is a way to get by with flaming someone else...

The thread starter posted it for your own use, not your criticism...But you give it anyways.

TGgold · Jul 28, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I know it's been stated before, but I've been playing around with some variations, mostly involving removing one of the interrupts for Purge Signet. It's nice to be able to have fairly awesome condition and hex removal. =)

I also did a bar where I removed Holy Wrath, specced into Healing, removed sig of disruption, and added in [skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill] and [skill]Purge Signet[/skill].

The Holy Wrath Damage wasn't really needed since i was already in a damage heavy group. I ended up gaining 3 AL, a heal, and awesome hex and condition removal. Playing the bar this way, though, it ended up being a little more spamming Purge and Rejuv, and a little less harassing others. I kept Leech Sig, since nobody was hexing foes in my team, making the interruption of a SKILL more important than that of a spell. The Damage remains about the same, but it offers a little more utility.

I'm definately going to play with more Signet Builds when Symbolic Strike comes into play with GWEN =)