Curse

LifeInfusion · May 31, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

(At least not by players)

- Shield Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- probably if it wasn't 10 energy then it would be different?
- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) <-- maintained enchantment
-Aura of Faith <-- Healer's Boon killed the idea of people using it I guess
- Succor (Monk other) <-- 1 energy pip for 1 energy pip trade, but then lose 1 energy whenever ally casts a spell (the turn off)
-Withdraw hexes (Divine Favor) <-- added recharge per hex, adjacent range ; dwarfed by Hex eater signet + mantra of inscriptions
- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) <-- crap like mending?
- Release Enchantments (Divine Favor) <-- too much time to stack the enchants?
- Healing Ring (Healing Prayers) <-- Heal Area but doesn't heal yourself... yea.
- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) <-- conditional
- Pensive Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- conditional
- Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers) <-- short range heal
- Restful Breeze (Healing Prayers) <-- cheaper healing breeze
- Supportive Spirit (Healing Prayers) <-- conditional
- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- err
- Scribe's Insight [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- err
- Peace and Harmony [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- guild name, but haven't seen it used

Underrated?
- Reversal of Damage (Smiting Prayers) --> other than corsairs I haven't seen it used. But it prevents all the damage done on that strike (from spell/weapon) unlike reversal of fortune/vengeful weapon.
- Reverse Hex (Protection Prayers) <-- reversal of fortune + remove hex, 1/4 cast time
- Healing Burst [Elite] (Healing Prayers) <-- probably useful on MM with no elite
- Dwayna's Sorrow (Healing Prayers) <-- probably useful with minion bombers

Thoughts?

Utaku · May 31, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Deny Hexes counts itself as recharging when cast.
Which means you remove one hex at least, making it on par with veil as per energy cost and recharge.

Why_Me · May 31, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Signet of Removal has its uses, stick it on a paragon or ranger or something in an enchantment heavy build and it's an extremely easy way to remove hexes/conditions.

After the buff, deny hexes is actually quite good. I have seen it used a lot more than most half decent skills. Not as much as holy veil, but in ANY build using another divine favor skill, there is no reason (besides preveiling, but in a two monk backline it isn't always necessary) not to use a non elite 4 second longer recharge expel hexes.

But yeah, the rest (at least in a PvP sense) are completely useless.

October Jade · May 31, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

My Orders necromancer runs Succor in ToPK. I maintain it on the monk, since I have an abundance of energy anyway (even after the SR change).

Granted, we're in the monk forum...this probably isn't the sort of case you were looking for. Oh well.

LifeInfusion · May 31, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utaku

Deny Hexes counts itself as recharging when cast.
Which means you remove one hex at least, making it on par with veil as per energy cost and recharge.

that's a technicality I never noticed XD
Thanks for the tip. I will edit the OP now...
Been using smite hex for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why_Me

Signet of Removal has its uses, stick it on a paragon or ranger or something in an enchantment heavy build and it's an extremely easy way to remove hexes/conditions.

Every 5 seconds...I would think Me/Mo but w/e.
Paragons and rangers don't use enchantments, so I would think it belongs on a Dervish or an assassin.

The only reason I see for using it on a monk is when instead of Blessed Light you use Signet of Removal with a prot monk and mantra of inscriptions...

Grammar · May 31, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Not sure if this is OT, but I think Restful Breeze is one of the best self heals in the game for casters with monk secondaries.

-First of all, you get 10 pips of regen for 7 seconds with only 3 points into healing prayers. That's up to 140HP for only 5 energy, using only left-over att. points.
-Second of all, the drawback to the spell (it ends if you attack or cast a spell) is not really an issue at all for back-line X/Mo casters.

Think about it.....
When would, say, an E/Mo need to use this spell? When they need to heal.
And why does the Ele need to heal? Because they are taking damage.
And what should an Ele who is taking damage be doing? RUNNING THE HELL AWAY!
And what is an Ele who is running away NOT doing? Attacking or casting spells.
The drawback of the spell simply never comes into play because when you're in bad enough shape to need to use it, you're no longer attacking/casting anyway (or at least you shouldn't be...).

Obviously, this skill sucks hardcore for primary monks.

Nkah Sennyt · May 31, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I tried using [skill]Reverse Hex[/skill] on my monk. It's not bad, but the 10 energy is kinda iffy.

Racthoh · May 31, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Release Enchantments is good, you can really abuse it with another monk using Air of Enchantment followed by a slew of cheap enchantments for a huge heal. But it's not really practical to use since you're using up a lot of slots and casting time; if you need a heal that big you're wasting time loading up the enchantments. I've found it best practical to use it with Boon Signet, load up a few enchantments (run back, RoF, Guardian) and release for a Heal Party without speccing into healing prayers and for a similar energy cost. Fun to use in PvE, but a PvP monk's bar is crowded enough as is.

Signet of Removal is the fastest recharging spot hex removal in the game with a simple conditional. But, pre-veiling has a better chance of preventing a nasty hex stack, and a purge/expel will clean a stack off faster. The nice part though, it's a signet; Migraine, Shame, Dazed... ignores them all.

I'm not sure why you need MoI with it though on a 5 second recharge?

Healing Whisper + Channeling was fun on altar maps, and can be useful on heroes since they like to run into the fight anyhow.

Restful Breeze... seen it on a few flagrunners, I guess a bonder with minimal healing investment could make use of it as a self heal.

Seen a number of Scribe's Insight boon monks. I tried it with Draw Conditions and Signet of Malice/Devotion, others with Signet of Rejuvenation/Devotion. Not sure to the extent of their usefulness, might just be for the nostalga.

Coloneh · May 31, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

here we go:

- Shield Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- guardian works fine
- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) <-- meh
-Aura of Faith <-- meh
- Succor (Monk other) <-- Succor Wammos? and orders necros use it all the time
-Withdraw hexes (Divine Favor) <-- Divert Hexes
- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) <-- spirit if for 55 necros/eles/whatever. healing is meh
- Release Enchantments (Divine Favor) <-- CoP
- Healing Ring (Healing Prayers) <-- Heal Area but doesn't heal yourself... yea.(you got it)
- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) <-- Blessed light
- Pensive Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- guardian
- Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers) <-- used often by monks with a limited skill chouce, its not bad
- Restful Breeze (Healing Prayers) <-- good out-of-combat heal
- Supportive Spirit (Healing Prayers) <-- plain crap
- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- to conditional, low heal
- Scribe's Insight [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- to conditional
- Peace and Harmony [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- this skill is a joke, +1 regen is pitiful

Underrated?
- Reversal of Damage (Smiting Prayers) --> good for AoE smiters, RoF usually has a short enough recharge
- Reverse Hex (Protection Prayers) <-- 10 energy = bad
- Healing Burst [Elite] (Healing Prayers) <-- monks should be in the backline
- Dwayna's Sorrow (Healing Prayers) <-- hasnt seen use since the EoE nerf

Pick Me · May 31, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

- Shield Guardian (Protection Prayers) - seems fine to me. Nerf bat would make it 10 energy if it were lower initially.

- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) - good for increased self healing (monks don't need to do damage anyway).

-Aura of Faith - better elites than this.

- Succor (Monk other) - R/W, W/R, Rit spirit spammer.

- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) - great for w/mo, cover enchantment, and oh yeah, for those of us who don't put points into healing prayers when not with other people.

- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) - its free, fast recharge, removes both 1 hex and 1 condition.

- Pensive Guardian (Protection Prayers) - you can count on W/Mos and Dervishes.

- Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers) - fast and cheap

- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) - good for pure prot monk

- Peace and Harmony [Elite] (Divine Favor) - better elites, but for e-regen, good for supportive monks who don't attack

The rest I'll agree with you regarding non-usefulness. As for the under used, I actually use them all.

vergerefosh · May 31, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Seen life attunement used long ago for SF farming, had it cast on me as tank.

Watchful Spirit I tried putting on one of my Koss', not bad, but the energy cost got annoying so I trashed it, and I use restful breeze on my BM ranger as an additional little heal

Div · May 31, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) <-- maintained enchantment
- Succor (Monk other) <-- 1 energy pip for 1 energy pip trade, but then lose 1 energy whenever ally casts a spell (the turn off)
- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) <-- crap like mending?

Leet for pve bonders. In fact, some of the most important skills for bonding a tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) <-- conditional

Useful for certain gvg builds, as I've seen it used in some special cases like smiter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

- Restful Breeze (Healing Prayers) <-- cheaper healing breeze

Very useful for split characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- err
- Scribe's Insight [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- err

Elites used in the resurrecting attempt of boonprot monks. WM monks have been seen running scribe's insight, and boon signet has been seen in a variety of boonprot type builds. Not overly popular, but definitely used by some top pvpers.

phool · May 31, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

like
- Restful Breeze (Healing Prayers) - x/mo. Best self heal for least investment, can go on any build that didn't need another secondary without harming it. Excels in relatively passive builds like an RM nec or some water build for disorganised pvp and I imagine strong on solo gankers.
- Succor (Monk other) - all adrenaline wammo is not terrible, sometimes I have koss do this. It's a bit limiting on the elites - battle rage, auspicious parry, signets.

ok to moderately bad
- Scribe's Insight [Elite] (Divine Favor) - boonprot, I hate the build personally but some people seem to use it quite well. A couple of months ago it was kinda popular as mo/p with remedy sig.
- Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers) - very average skill, doesn't do anything interesting to justify its range.
- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) - farming.
- Dwayna's Sorrow (Healing Prayers) - a mass enchant cover. the mm/bomber thing isn't practically useful, but this will cover your life barriers from shatter enchantment quickly and easily.
- Reversal of Damage (Smiting Prayers) - smiting's just not very good. This is alright, venge/remedy are generally better and spirit bond/prot spirit are superior for those situations where its relatively unique feature come into play (fully negating the damage, however much, like an intervention skill with 6 sec recharge).

bad
- Peace and Harmony [Elite] (Divine Favor) - the only situations where this gets useful, a BiP does better. Very inefficient if only cast on a couple of players
- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) - for a bonder build? ugh. excessively conditional time sink, potentially usable on a boonprot.
- Pensive Guardian (Protection Prayers) - meh skill, would rather take shielding hands, shield of absorption, guardian...
- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) - Perhaps a utility on a me/mo with signet of humility already, but in that instance the condition is restrictive. The condition isn't particularly restrictive with a bonder but you don't need that level of hex removal and conditions in pve are almost a blessing thanks to RC.
- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) - has occasional use in soloing.
- Healing Burst [Elite] (Healing Prayers) - healing ball teams can benefit a fair bit
- Reverse Hex (Protection Prayers) - too expensive for a single hex, which will only be a cover anyway.

almost unusable
- Release Enchantments (Divine Favor) - vaguely remember hypothesising the possibility of combining with another player with air of enchantment for a party heal. LoD now, I'd rather CoP or mystic healing.
-Aura of Faith - healer's boon, yep. Fun for trying to get the biggest heal with infuse health.
- Shield Guardian (Protection Prayers) - I figure a healing ball could use this at a push. Other than Mungri and his sidekick gardener being very annoying with this, far too expensive.

unusable
- Supportive Spirit (Healing Prayers) - terrible. rework please.
- Healing Ring (Healing Prayers) - dunno what to say.
-Withdraw hexes (Divine Favor) - one of the worst elites in the game

you didn't mention balthazar's pendulum?

Stormlord Alex · May 31, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

A tangent here, but... here goes ^^
[skill]Shield Guardian[/skill]
Hmm, it's funny you should mention Shield Guardian... I was genuinely thinking of it this morning - how I've never used it, how limited it is etc.
Now, as it is, it's... kinda expensive for a one-shot effect... and AoE, really? Haven't seen many people relying on AoE heals or prots... There's likely a reason why

Now... I was considering buffing it in a way, making it similar to an anti-attack RoF... I would like to hear some feedback from you l33t haXx monks, please tell me if i'm just crazy ^^

Shield Guardian 5e 1/4c 4r
Enchantment spell. For 8 seconds, target ally has a 75% chance to block attacks. The next time that ally blocks an attack, that ally is healed for 16...67 health and Shield Guardian ends.

Well?
/end tangent

Marth Reynolds · May 31, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Well?

Would make it better, but to take it over rof... i don't know..

RoF reduces dmg from the time that ally is dealt dmg.
Shield gaurdian would block 1 attack and heal for maximum effect.
Downside being the not taking dmg in 8 seconds for both skills, but shield only works on attacks thus further limiting it's use.

However RoF can be more effictive (reducing 67 dmg and healing for 67 +DV at max!) to preventing a low amount and healing that.

Personally i would still take RoF over your version of the pimped shield gaurdian, the only trigger on attacks makes it fragile and sometimes unusable.

Cartoonhero · May 31, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Signet of removal is awesome in an enchant heavy build, bring a bunch of melees in your party, and make a third monk smite off them with:

strength of honor
balthazars aura
judges insight
signet of removal[E]
glyph of lesser energy(ele)
[open slot]
blessed signet
res

used with great success in gvg melee heavy builds, cant imagine it wouldnt work the same with koss, zenmai, goran, para hero, derv hero,...well you get the picture.

Age · May 31, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I agree with the Coloneh on most of his points and when it comes to watchfull spirit it is more costly then mending and you have to buy it.Why use it when you can use life bond and negate the damage instead.Life Attunement doesn't come close to life bond.

There are a few other Devine Favour skills that need to be reworked such as Intervention and Healing the recharge is way to long.When talking about restfull breeze you only use that if not being attacked.Shield Guardian and Reverse hex is to high if it was 5e.

moko · Jun 01, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

- Shield Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- trash
- Life Attunement (Protection Prayers) <-- farm
-Aura of Faith <-- trash
- Succor (Monk other) <-- full adrenaline warriors (fun builds)
-Withdraw hexes (Divine Favor) <-- uber trash
- Watchful Spirit (Divine Favor)/ Watchful Healing (Divine Favor) <-- trash
- Release Enchantments (Divine Favor) <-- trash
- Healing Ring (Healing Prayers) <-- trash
- Signet of Removal [Elite] (Monk other) <-- good, go observe gvg
- Pensive Guardian (Protection Prayers) <-- dunno, could be good against aegis chaining teams seeing how they're constantly enchanted and it's rather cheap..but still, guardian would be better.
- Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers) <-- trash
- Restful Breeze (Healing Prayers) <-- a/mo gank
- Supportive Spirit (Healing Prayers) <-- trash
- Boon Signet [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- fun builds but trash
- Scribe's Insight [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- boon prots
- Peace and Harmony [Elite] (Divine Favor) <-- trash

Underrated?
- Reversal of Damage (Smiting Prayers) --> smiters
- Reverse Hex (Protection Prayers) <-- trash
- Healing Burst [Elite] (Healing Prayers) <-- uber ultra trash
- Dwayna's Sorrow (Healing Prayers) <-- trashhh

Dutch Masterr · Jun 01, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

[skill]restful breeze[/skill]

I use this skill all the time on my assassin, mesmer and necro. It works especially well on casters without much healing because of the unconditional +10 regen.

LifeInfusion · Jun 01, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I guess Signet of Removal is more useful than I give it credit for. Thanks for the enlightenment, as I haven't played my monk for a month...

I still don't get why Life attunement is for farming, given aggro doesn't hold like the book-holding days, which means tanking is obsolete.

I didn't mention the smiting line, because the whole thing is pretty much unusable on a party basis, other than Judge's Insight and Balthazar's Spirit...

I did forget to add these, but they basically are not discussion material:
-Mark of protection (elite)
-Healing Hands (elite)
-Glimmer of light (elite)
-Healer's covenant (elite)
-Mending
-Live Vicariously
-Amity (elite)
-Pacifism
-Protective Bond (after nerf, it is a given noone uses it)
-Light of Dwayna (heal ball or suicide?)
-Vengeance /Unyielding Aura (elite) --> monk-raging, MinionMasters