Curse

XvArchonvX · Jun 11, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Ask them. And if it is your opinion that one is better then the other, state as much.

I was pretty sure that my statement had implied as much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Archers Signet may save 5 or 6 times 16-13 energy (concussion shot) every 45 seconds yields 80-78 energy (something like 1.8 E/sec) and that is more then the 8x7 you'd get from Prepared Shot in a similar timespan (around 1.2 E/sec).

I am aware that Archer's Signet saves more energy, but I've never found a legitamate bow build that required more energy than expertise and Prepared Shot could provide. The 3 second cast of Archer's Signet also removes a lot of damage potential from a bow build.

Amy Awien · Jun 11, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Then why make such a useless and off-topic comments. You do understand the use, but you have never found a use for it.

The cast time is 2 seconds, btw, which hardly removes a lot of damage potential.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 11, 2007, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Archers Signet works in energy denial areas since it essentially makes ur skills free to use this is one of its greatest assets It also allows a large number of uses from Concussion show that even with 12 Expertise is going to cost 15 energy which is going to give u 1 shot and then ur going to need energy gain to be able to use it again and the same between every usage. Another advantage to it is the energy save is uncondional unlike most energy gain skills.

Other energy gain methods are effective too but they struggle with multiple concussion shots especially in a short period of time. Archers shot losing some effectiveness when using non Concussion shot builds where other energy regain skills work more effectivly. But imo if u want to use Concussion shot then there is no more effective way than using Archers signet as ur elite.

The Cast time is no problem, its no different than equipping a preperation.

phool · Jun 11, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Then why make such a useless and off-topic comments. You do understand the use, but you have never found a use for it.

The cast time is 2 seconds, btw, which hardly removes a lot of damage potential.

to get your optimum energy saving btw you have to use only concussion shot. Which recharges every 5 seconds. So you're saving 5-6 times 16-13 energy is in fact ensuring you can do nothing except autoattack (and concussion, which does even less damage than autoattacking) for 25-30 seconds. In addition to using your elite slot. How's that for removing a lot of damage potential?

Archer's Signet is 'usable'... that doesn't mean it's not one of the worst skills in the game. Power shot is 'usable'... I rest my case.

There is a note on the skill's talk page at wiki saying elite bow attacks are free but don't reduce the skill's charges so mimicrying this would allow 30 seconds of free QS, magebane, barrage or crippling shot spam at 0 expertise, if it's not out of date. Which is interesting if not realistic. edit:this is no longer the case if it ever was

XvArchonvX · Jun 11, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Then why make such a useless and off-topic comments. You do understand the use, but you have never found a use for it.

The cast time is 2 seconds, btw, which hardly removes a lot of damage potential.

????

I made the comment to find out from others their reasoning. I thought that was pretty obvious. I don't claim to know everything about GW and frequent these forums to learn from others. This is shown in how I mistook the cast time of the skill.

HalPlantagenet · Jun 11, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

The energy saving of [skill=text]Archer's Signet[/skill] enables you to launch and repeat 3-4 high energy skills, i.e. [skill=text]Concussion Shot[/skill] that you wouldn't be able to combine with such immediacy in other circumstances, even with high Expertise. It's not just its benfit with one other skill. It's difficult to imagine that anyone that uses it isn't aware that they're giving up their Elite slot.

Having said that, my sense is that degen, particularly poisoning, is the key to what I've played of Hard Mode and there are several interesting variations within that theme that are possible. [skill=text]Needling Shot[/skill] and an IAS are almost always constants with me in that context.

An exception to my previous posts comes to mind: the dock's mission in Elona, (which I've always particularly enjoyed.) [skill=text]Splinter Weapon[/skill] and [skill=text]Barrage[/skill] are phenomenal there, particularly with two rangers thus equipped. In that case, it's useful to bring along Olias and his entourage to play interference.

ZystD · Jun 11, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Well, the point I was trying to make, is that in HM dazing with BHA is not always enough, specially with godly protect monks, or fast casting mesmers. Its also VERY helpful to bring the mesmer illusion skill Frustration, as this adds dmg upon interrupts making kills much quicker, and lengthens casting speeds back to that of a dazed normal mode boss. Not that its only bosses, this completely shuts down any normal monster almost certainly, the extra dmg and time to interrupt helped ALOT I found.

lennymon · Jun 12, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I <3 Frustration

Evilsod · Jun 12, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Since when do you have to actually use Concussion Shot once every 5 seconds? Unless your fighting a mob of 3+ spellcasters that for some reason your team can't kill any within 30 seconds... Archers Signet is bollocks. Prep Shot lets you manage energy properly when you need it, gives you additional damage and lets you use all THREE interrupts WHEN and WHERE you need them. Archers Signet lets you spam Concussion Shot, which sadly is completely useless if you use it vs a Healing Signet and using a Savage/Distract while under Archers just wastes its charges and makes it even less effective.

Until Rangers get a *good* 25 energy bow ATTACK that doesn't do crap damage and only really works on a spellcaster Archers Signet will be useless. I don't give a crap what people have to say about this elite, much like i don't about Primal Rage. Archers Signet at least has potential whereas Primal is just useless, Experts Dexterity is another example. There is nothing to discuss on how useless Archers Signet is. No point saving 80 energy if you have nothing to use it on, what you gonna do, spec Healing and use Heal Party?

Pericles · Jun 12, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Throughout this thread ive encountered a lot of builds which did NOT make use of a preparation. I find that every bow-wielding ranger should nearly always carry a prep, as this gives such a big boost to your arrows, is unstrippable, and lasts a decent time. It allows u to simultanuously apply 2 conditions, e.g: screaming+apply poison.

Anyways, i often run epidemic ranger builds or incendiary arrows coupled with mimicry (practiced stance on magrid). The 3 incredible stances for me are Whirlng Defence, Dryders' Defences and Lightning Reflexes. Also i find shortbows much more useful in HM so i strongly advise u to use one.

Evilsod · Jun 12, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Yeah i never understood the point in making a bow build without using a prep... there is no way another skill will be more beneficial than a prep.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 13, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Prep Shot lets you manage energy properly when you need it, gives you additional damage and lets you use all THREE interrupts WHEN and WHERE you need them.

Ive explaned most of the reasoning behind Archers signets usefulness above but just to point out u can still use the other interupts while u have archers signet, you very oftne meet groups of huge numbers of casters, and in hard mode some of them are a real problem and dazed is a great counter of if u dont attack them after to interupt the slower casting is a very useful condition on enemys. Id also like to see u be able to Use Prep Shot effectivly while taking on the Dual Wells at the Mursaat gate in Ring of Fire

On that mission Archers signet comes into a class of its own.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Are we talking about Ether Seals here... not Wells...?

Because personally i found them quite easy to take out by.... STANDING OUT OF RANGE USING A FLATBOW.

And the fact that your having to bring a completely haxxord endgame e-denial enemy into this to say that Archers Signet is decent just means the skill is absolutely bollocks.

Can i just ask which groups with huge numbers of casters we're talking about here?

Any mesmers cast extremely fast, especially in HM, very hard to interrupt. Necros, Eles, Monk, why are these even alive for long enough? And are we also going by the fact that you manage to hit every single Concussion Shot?

No matter what you say with regards to Archers Signet it sucks, its only use is to 'spam' a 25e interrupt, using any other attack skills makes it a much less effective elite. Prep Shot will always win. You don't have to spam Concussion Shot, we were given 3 very good interrupts for a reason, Prep Shot utilizes that, Archers doesn't.

Amy Awien · Jun 13, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

C'mon peeps, this topic isn't about Archer's Signet and there's no point in trying to argue with Evilsod, who will never change his opinion anyway, no matter what you say because he simply can not accept different opinions. Even when faced with the plain fact is that someone states they actually put Archer's Signet to use in a build designed for Hard Mode and had success with it.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Thats because your definition of success obviously means something entirely different from mine. There has been no successful build involving Archer's Signet, end of story. Everything i've heard has revolved around spamming Concussion Shot, which is pretty far from a success.

Practiced Stance is a bad elite. But it has some successful builds.

Amy Awien · Jun 13, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

You see, it is exactly as I said, there is no way that you can be wrong.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

If thats how you want to interpret it... of course your tune doesn't seem to be changing either, you refuse to acknowledge how bad Archers Signet is and how all builds for it are too. So really, stop trying to act like you're 'better'.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 14, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

C'mon peeps, this topic isn't about Archer's Signet and there's no point in trying to argue with Evilsod, who will never change his opinion anyway, no matter what you say because he simply can not accept different opinions. Even when faced with the plain fact is that someone states they actually put Archer's Signet to use in a build designed for Hard Mode and had success with it.

Hmm you speak the truth anyways back to the topic at hand

i find that [skill]throw dirt[/skill] is one of the Best skills available in any hard mode build, ive used it for a long time and now that ive ventured into Hard mode ive found its now 10 times more important to use. Eg. Fort Ranik mission, You face a party of Charr, the Warriors charge your quishy monk that stands no chance against them, so u blind them as they cluster around him. You then have several seconds in which u can concentrate on taking out any Casters relativly easy. IF you have another ranger with u, as soon as they notive that it has worn off they then use it on the warriors, u can then finish the remaining Casters and then u can proceed to eliminate the Warriors.

phool · Jun 14, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

C'mon peeps, this topic isn't about Archer's Signet and there's no point in trying to argue with Evilsod, who will never change his opinion anyway, no matter what you say because he simply can not accept different opinions. Even when faced with the plain fact is that someone states they actually put Archer's Signet to use in a build designed for Hard Mode and had success with it.

ad hominem? You're getting desperate. You didn't even make an attempt to reply to his/her or my points. Nice hypocrisy btw.

Epinephrine · Jun 14, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Evilsod isn't the only one to realise Archer's Signet sucks.

I have a screenshot of me in Thunderhead Keep with only henchmen (pre-heroes, no flags to control them) smacking it down with NO SKILLS on my bar. Just because you can do it doesn't mean it's good. No skills on the bar isn't a good build because ANY build is better, as any build can get the same or better performance - they can simply opt not to use their skills.

Same with Archer's Signet, sure, you might be able to make it work, but only because you didn't need a decent build. I can probably make an archer's signet build and beat many areas with it, but I'd have beat them more easily with other builds. Archer's Signet is a lousy skill, but you get 7 others to make up for its crappitutde.