Curse

I Might Avenge U · May 18, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

I have formulated a basic PvE build that i will run, and I am wondering what I can do to make it better, and if there is anyway to improve the build itself.

Here it is:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Power Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Favorable Winds[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

The Attributes would be:

Marksmanship: 15 12+2+1 (helm)

Wilderness Survival: 12 10+2

Expertise: 9 8+1

Protection Prayers: 2

As Far As bows are concerned, i would use one of the following:

[wiki]Drago's Flatbow[/wiki]

[wiki]Zelnehlun's Longbow[/wiki]

[wiki]Forgotten Longbow[/wiki]

If I were to use a pet, i would swap out [skill]Favorable Winds[/skill] for [skill]Charm Animal[/skill] and [skill]Whirling Defense[/skill] for [skill]Comfort Animal[/skill]

any suggestion, comments?

vespertine · May 18, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

conjure elements is quite popular nowadays..

[skill]Glass Arrows[/skill]
[skill]conjure flame[/skill]
[skill]Dual Shot[/skill]

depending on how offensive your build should be you could bring an IAS like

[skill]Tiger's Fury[/skill]

btw.. if you bring fav. winds i'd suggest to use the flatbow for IAS

hth

XvArchonvX · May 18, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

First of all, drop Power Shot. It's one of the most underpowered bow attacks. Replace it with something that packs more punch like Penetrating Shot or Marauder's Shot. Favorable winds is also something that won't really help this bar. Unless you are running Barrage or are running with other rangers in your group it will be little more than a hassle to lay down and an advantage to enemy rangers in most cases. Using a recurve bow can allow you to shoot with a low arc.

samcobra · May 18, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

[skill]distracting shot[/skill] the best skill in the game. ok? use it!

I Might Avenge U · May 21, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

I see. Well I can't really spread around my attribute points anymore, so Conjure skills are just out of the question.

Here's an Update, tell me what you think:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply poison[/skill][skill]Read the Wind[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

I'm not too sure about this one, Here are a couple problems that I have:

1) Should I keep both preparations or just choose one, and if so which? RtW is more of a personal Favorable winds, so I guess it really isn't that much better than Apply poison.

2) Should i switch out RtW for another interrupt?

3) Is Distracting shot better than Savage shot in this build, becase it's more of a damage build, so I figured Savage shot would be better?

4) Is there enough E-Management?

5) Is there enough damage in this build?

Just a few questions, but answers are Appreciated

KazeMitsui · May 21, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

1) you decide interrupts or condi spread thats your choice
2) again if you want to interrupt then yes keep rtw drop apply
3) if youre interrupt keep dshot and savage
4) if youre worried about emanagement drop some wilderness and buff up expertise or just dont spam your skills thats all and you have prepared shot so you should be good i would assume
5) in most ranger builds that i have come across its either gonna be damage, interrupts, or condi spread. the only build that maybeeeeeee (some could disagree) does all three is this

burning arrow
savage
distracting
apply poison
natural stride
mend touch
trolls
some sort of rez

and point spread is
expertise 12+1+1
marks 9+1
wilder 9+1
prot 3

and have a go at it its fun maybe if youre pve drop savage shot and add screaming shot or something...?

have fun test it

XvArchonvX · May 21, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KazeMitsui

5) in most ranger builds that i have come across its either gonna be damage, interrupts, or condi spread. the only build that maybeeeeeee (some could disagree) does all three is this

burning arrow
savage
distracting
apply poison
natural stride
mend touch
trolls
some sort of rez

and point spread is
expertise 12+1+1
marks 9+1
wilder 9+1
prot 3

This is really one of the most popular builds, but for good reason. It is often found in many GvG builds, but also works great in PvE.

Personally, I use Prepared Shot in two instances. One is when I go into Domain of Secrets and I need a very energy stable build. In this case I use:

Prepared Shot {E}
Disracting Shot
Apply Poison
Screaming Shot
Natural Stride
Lightbringer's Gaze
Troll Unguent
Rebirth

The other instance is when I am going in an area where I want to deal elemental damage or bring a build that is not condition reliant such as Southern Shiverpeaks or Hell's Precipice. In this case I use:

Prepared Shot {E}
Savage Shot
Penetrating Shot
Screaming Shot
Kindle Arrows
Natural Stride (or Winter for Hell's)
Troll Unguent
Rebirth

In both builds, I run with full marksmanship, 9 expertise, and the rest in Wilderness.

To answer the OP's questions:
1) I would STRONGLY reccomend that you never run with 2 preparations in a build. If you use a recurve bow, you don't need read the winds. Apply Poison is an excellent preparation, but if you will be encountering enemies who will non-fleshy, I would suggest Kindle Arrows. The advantage of Prepared Shot is that you can run a relatively high energy build with a low investment in expertise. You can therefore use this to your advantage and run with a strong wilderness attribute level, which makes Kindle a stronger choice than RtW in many ways.

2) I would suggest Concussion Shot or another attack skill to replace your extra preparation. If you are running with Apply, Concussion Shot may be too energy heavy, but otherwise it has great synergy with a Prepared Shot build.

3) Personally I believe Distracting is in general better for PvP than PvE since most enemies will die before an extra recharge time would make a difference on them. The shorter recharge time of Savage also is an advantage for PvE like situations where there are a lot of enemies and therefore a lot of skills to interupt. However, if you are running a build with savage and are experiencing a low energy efficiency, trade it out for Distracting.

4) The best way to find energy stability of a build is to test it. Great Temple of Balthazar is a great place to do this, but as your build stands now, I think you should have more than enough energy stability and will likely have more energy coming in than you can spend.

5) I believe that there are other more efficient variations of this build that could give you more dps if you wish. I've found that with a 5 energy preparation, you can keep almost a continual chain of attack skill spam with Prepared + Penetrating + Screaming and not run into energy problems with a good attribute spread.

SnipiousMax · May 21, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Prepared Shot is a great skill, but unless you have at least 2 other higher energy skills to use in quick succession or something like conjure or brutal weapon as a secondary skill, then it's effect is a bit wasted. You shouldn't run out of energy with the second build you posted, even without Prep shot.

I Might Avenge U · May 21, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KazeMitsui

1) you decide interrupts or condi spread thats your choice
2) again if you want to interrupt then yes keep rtw drop apply
3) if youre interrupt keep dshot and savage
4) if youre worried about emanagement drop some wilderness and buff up expertise or just dont spam your skills thats all and you have prepared shot so you should be good i would assume
5) in most ranger builds that i have come across its either gonna be damage, interrupts, or condi spread. the only build that maybeeeeeee (some could disagree) does all three is this

burning arrow
savage
distracting
apply poison
natural stride
mend touch
trolls
some sort of rez

and point spread is
expertise 12+1+1
marks 9+1
wilder 9+1
prot 3

and have a go at it its fun maybe if youre pve drop savage shot and add screaming shot or something...?

have fun test it

Interesting, I think that i will be condition spread, so I'm going to drop savage shot and keep Distracting shot, as it is good to have a nice interrupt, and D-shot would "pack the most punch."

So now my skill bar should look like:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Distracting shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Personally, I use Prepared Shot in two instances. One is when I go into Domain of Secrets and I need a very energy stable build. In this case I use:

Prepared Shot {E}
Disracting Shot
Apply Poison
Screaming Shot
Natural Stride
Lightbringer's Gaze
Troll Unguent
Rebirth

The other instance is when I am going in an area where I want to deal elemental damage or bring a build that is not condition reliant such as Southern Shiverpeaks or Hell's Precipice. In this case I use:

Prepared Shot {E}
Savage Shot
Penetrating Shot
Screaming Shot
Kindle Arrows
Natural Stride (or Winter for Hell's)
Troll Unguent
Rebirth

In both builds, I run with full marksmanship, 9 expertise, and the rest in Wilderness.

To answer the OP's questions:
1) I would STRONGLY reccomend that you never run with 2 preparations in a build. If you use a recurve bow, you don't need read the winds. Apply Poison is an excellent preparation, but if you will be encountering enemies who will non-fleshy, I would suggest Kindle Arrows. The advantage of Prepared Shot is that you can run a relatively high energy build with a low investment in expertise. You can therefore use this to your advantage and run with a strong wilderness attribute level, which makes Kindle a stronger choice than RtW in many ways.

2) I would suggest Concussion Shot or another attack skill to replace your extra preparation. If you are running with Apply, Concussion Shot may be too energy heavy, but otherwise it has great synergy with a Prepared Shot build.

3) Personally I believe Distracting is in general better for PvP than PvE since most enemies will die before an extra recharge time would make a difference on them. The shorter recharge time of Savage also is an advantage for PvE like situations where there are a lot of enemies and therefore a lot of skills to interupt. However, if you are running a build with savage and are experiencing a low energy efficiency, trade it out for Distracting.

4) The best way to find energy stability of a build is to test it. Great Temple of Balthazar is a great place to do this, but as your build stands now, I think you should have more than enough energy stability and will likely have more energy coming in than you can spend.

5) I believe that there are other more efficient variations of this build that could give you more dps if you wish. I've found that with a 5 energy preparation, you can keep almost a continual chain of attack skill spam with Prepared + Penetrating + Screaming and not run into energy problems with a good attribute spread.

This was very helpful, I got 3 major points from this post:

First ( and most obvious ) was the fact that there is no way that an extra preparation can be beneficial towards the build. I also found that you were "spot-on" when describing the situation, I hadn't even thought about the non-fleshy monsters I would encounter. So now my build would have two different branches on which I could expand:

Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Distracting shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Distracting shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Secondly, Savage is a more efficient skill to use as an interrupt, Seeing as it would act faster on my opponent and interrupt. Even with the higher energy cost, It has a better advantage with the lower recharge time

Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Finally, Natural Stride is actually a VERY good skill for escaping. For a lower Blocking percentile, I get a speed boost and a MUCH faster recharge time. So
it would well replace Whirling Defense. Here is what my Final build should look like:

Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Prepared Shot is a great skill, but unless you have at least 2 other higher energy skills to use in quick succession or something like conjure or brutal weapon as a secondary skill, then it's effect is a bit wasted. You shouldn't run out of energy with the second build you posted, even without Prep shot.

This is true, so mostly I will use the two skills [skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill] to follow it in succession, and therefore I hopefully won't waste my extra energy.

So now my FINAL Draft of the build throughout this post is:

Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Marksmanship: 16 12+1+3

Wilderness Survival: 12 10+2

Expertise: 9 8+1

Protection Prayers: 2

Bow:

[wiki]Elswyth's Recurve Bow[/wiki]

Any Suggestions/More improvements?

KazeMitsui · May 22, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

why not try keen arrow or crossfire or maybe even mauraders shot instead of the two copies of penetrating shot? or possibliy focused shot?

Threll · May 22, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Mmmm... Crossfire. Yummy.

SnipiousMax · May 23, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

One last suggestion for the OP. If you are using your secondary only for a hard rez, you might play around with Death Pact Signet. It's a bit of a gamble at times, but you can't beat having your monk up and full health and energy after he/she drops in a pinch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KazeMitsui

why not try keen arrow or crossfire or maybe even mauraders shot instead of the two copies of penetrating shot? or possibliy focused shot?

Keen Arrow is bugged and doesn't function correctly (unless they've fixed it recently), Crossfire is only 5 energy (while it's a good skill, it doesn't make good use of Prepared Shot), and Focused Shot would disable all his others attack skills.

I Might Avenge U · May 23, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

^^
Got to it b4 me

I was considering going R/me for Epidemic

Fleshy would switch out

[skill]Natural Stride[/skill]

for

[skill]Epidemic[/skill]

and

[skill]Rebirth[/skill]

for

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

maybe non fleshy build can have

[skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

instead of

[skill]Rebirth[/skill]

what do you guys think?

KazeMitsui · May 23, 2007, 06:48 AM // 06:48

yea that sounds good

deathpact is a funny skill to use but yea its nice to use if its on the monk and youre at full health and energy or at least near full to both

better than rebirth unless you plan on running away and then hardrezing away from the mobbs up to you i would say.

and epidemic im not so sure about cause its aoe range is so small and yea... its small... no fun

Marverick · May 23, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Prepared Shot does shine with Penetrating Attack & Sundering Attack as they do good damage and need energy management to be kept up. Concussion Shot is also pretty much necessary as you can daze targets (best PvE caster shutdown IMO) without running out of energy with Prepared Shot.

I would stick to RtW > Kindle Arrows in PvE because the +damage is armor ignoring, and the increased arrow flight time allows you to use a Flatbow to get the faster attack speed while not sacrificing for the short range of a Shortbow. Also if you max out Marksmanship, you won't be able to spec enough into Wilderness Survival to make Kindle worth it.

This is what I use for Prepared Shot builds. 12+3+1 Marks, 10+1 Expertise, 8+1 BM

[skill]Read the Wind[/skill]
[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill]
[skill]Concussion Shot[/skill]
[skill]Distracting Shot[/skill] or [skill]Epidemic[/skill]
[skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill]
[skill]Sundering Attack[/skill]
[skill]Tiger's Fury[/skill]
[skill]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill] or [skill]Throw Dirt[/skill] or [skill]Epidemic[/skill]

Natural Stride isn't that great outside of random forms of PvP. If you're taking damage then your Monk is most likely putting RoF or Guardian or Spirit Bond on you, which will cancel out Natural Stride.

Sundering sucks on bows.... in fact why would you ever use Sundering in PvE? Mobs don't stack hexes or blind on you and there's no need to get lucky on a spike.....

samcobra · May 23, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

uh... you don't spike in pve. that being said... natural stride is still amazing simply due to its ability for you to prekite. Its much better than throw dirt. Also, save yourself the beast mastery imo and go with marauder's shot. It pretty much ownzzzzzzz that would be something like a 15/13 split b/w exp and marks.

Marverick · May 24, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Tiger's Fury gives you 33% more base damage. You could swap Sundering Attack with Marauder's Shot.

And yes I don't spike in PvE, however I don't know why people insist on using Sundering in PvE...

I Might Avenge U · May 24, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

So what I'm getting from you guys, Is to switch out Penetrating attack for Marauder's attack. Also to use a different rez on my non-fleshy build, I have no objections so far to epidemic:

R/Me
Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Marauder's Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Concussion Shot[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

R/Rt
Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Marauder's Shot[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Concussion Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Marksmanship: 16 12+1+3

Wilderness Survival: 12 10+2

Expertise: 9 8+1

Bow:

[wiki]Elswyth's Recurve Bow[/wiki]

suggestions?

TempusReborn · May 24, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Heya!
Ive been playing about 9 months almost exclusivly as a ranger so Il try to help how I can.
First of all in PVE AoE Damage is by far the easiest way to kill things - Barrage is almost broken in how much it can take down compared to other elites. I realise this would mean a serious alteration to your build (or alternativly you could make two, one with your build you have now and one with a barrage build, run a mission twice and see which is the most effective)
With 9 Points in Expertise I dont see why you need Prepared shot - your just not going to run out of energy unless a mesmer degens you.
Lightning Reflexes is one of the most versitile skills - under obscene pressure you can emerge victorius with it especially if you also have whirling defence.

If you do wish to spike - which the poison and single shot skills suggest I recommend changing your elite to burning arrow. Coupled with Poison and with your Marksmanship you will inflict -11 health degeneration for 5 secs, then -3 for 3 secs before (another burning arrow) -11 again.

Dont put more than 3 points in wilderness survival just for poison arrows and troll ungent. Poison will last between bowstrikes if your attacking a single enemy with that amount in WS and its unlikely that you'll want to use Trolls ungent in combat.

If you like any of the suggestions I will be on GMT afternoon - I can take you to cap barrage and burning arrow as well as testing your build in 1v1 PvP in my guild hall.

Good Luck
Tempus Reborn

Marverick · May 24, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Barrage is way overrated... It is only good in B/P groups where you have minions/pets to hold aggro into one mob and an Orders necro increasing your damage per arrow, or in splinter farming. It only does good damage if you can hit 3 or more foes consistently, which will not happen 75%+ of the time. You'd be better of with Apply Poison -> Burning Arrow -> Epidemic for AoE damage and good single target capabilities and interrupting.