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May 24, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

#21

geraar

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2007

Guild: Murf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Barrage is way overrated... It is only good in B/P groups where you have minions/pets to hold aggro into one mob and an Orders necro increasing your damage per arrow, or in splinter farming. It only does good damage if you can hit 3 or more foes consistently, which will not happen 75%+ of the time. You'd be better of with Apply Poison -> Burning Arrow -> Epidemic for AoE damage and good single target capabilities and interrupting.

²

thats exactly how i run my ranger
i killed mursaat with it before being infused

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May 25, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

#22

I Might Avenge U

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: California

Profession: R/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus Reborn

Heya!
Ive been playing about 9 months almost exclusivly as a ranger so Il try to help how I can.
First of all in PVE AoE Damage is by far the easiest way to kill things - Barrage is almost broken in how much it can take down compared to other elites. I realise this would mean a serious alteration to your build (or alternativly you could make two, one with your build you have now and one with a barrage build, run a mission twice and see which is the most effective)
With 9 Points in Expertise I dont see why you need Prepared shot - your just not going to run out of energy unless a mesmer degens you.

Well Barrage is nice, but I would rather have more energy than I would possibly need. I would much rather have extra energy than AoE damage, because if I do get into a "jam" I would like to have enough energy to keep up Troll Unguent & Natural stride, even if there is a Mesmer. But yea, You might be absolutely correct, but I won't know for sure until I try it. Might work well for my Non-Fleshy build.

*Note* I meant for Savage shot to be Concussion shot in my builds!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus Reborn

Lightning Reflexes is one of the most versitile skills - under obscene pressure you can emerge victorius with it especially if you also have whirling defence.

True, Lightening Reflexes is a great skill, but it being already said, Lightening Reflexes is just simply beaten by Natural Stride because of the fact that it recharges extremely faster. Also, I'd rather not use 2 skill slots on survival stances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus Reborn

If you do wish to spike - which the poison and single shot skills suggest I recommend changing your elite to burning arrow. Coupled with Poison and with your Marksmanship you will inflict -11 health degeneration for 5 secs, then -3 for 3 secs before (another burning arrow) -11 again.

I have been away from the game awhile now, So what do you guys mean by spike? As it is, I would get pretty good damage while doing -7 Degeneration within short bow range (might just have to start using a short bow then). So I have a fairly decent & Consistent damage to Condition damage ratio. Screaming shot would last 21 Seconds with 16 Marksmanship, and since Apply Poison is a Preparation, I will always have poison on, so there is always -7 Degeneration on my foes while also doing lots of additive damage. Also i plan on using my 3 bow attacks one after the other, so I should keep Degen up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus Reborn

Dont put more than 3 points in wilderness survival just for poison arrows and troll ungent. Poison will last between bowstrikes if your attacking a single enemy with that amount in WS and its unlikely that you'll want to use Trolls ungent in combat.

Well, Wilderness Survival is there mainly because of Troll Unguent. Yes I know the poison is with each hit, but it is also nice to maintain the poison while reapplying Apply Poison. Also, I most likely WILL be using troll unguent in combat, simply because of the fact that it is a FANTASTIC skill. with 12 Wilderness Survival I would have 9 health regeneration, that's 18 hp/Second. Which makes for a very efficient self heal. It also helps both the monks and myself. The monks have a less amount of pressure to keep everyone alive, and I can keep myself alive easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus Reborn

If you like any of the suggestions I will be on GMT afternoon - I can take you to cap barrage and burning arrow as well as testing your build in 1v1 PvP in my guild hall.

Good Luck
Tempus Reborn

I'm actually not playing the game itself at this time. The plan is to begin around June 15th or so. So I am using this time period now to figure out what I want to do once I start playing. I might just hold you to your offer later on though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Barrage is way overrated... It is only good in B/P groups where you have minions/pets to hold aggro into one mob and an Orders necro increasing your damage per arrow, or in splinter farming. It only does good damage if you can hit 3 or more foes consistently, which will not happen 75%+ of the time. You'd be better of with Apply Poison -> Burning Arrow -> Epidemic for AoE damage and good single target capabilities and interrupting.

Barrage is a great skill in certain situations and general PvE is, IMO, not one of those situations. I would like to try out that condition farming build though.

-Thanks to anyone who has responded so far, This thread is very helpful.

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May 25, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54	#23
KazeMitsui Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: pretty sure its all up in yo face Guild: [WHAT] Profession: R/	if i were you just keep the build it was before but yea maybe take out one of the sundering/penetrating attacks for mauraders since it does do quite a lot of dmg

May 25, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13	#24
seven Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2005	it is interesting that barrage is often considered not effective/too situational for general pve just because it requires a crowded "clump" of monsters to work. (personally though, i do not share this opinion as it worked well for me pretty much through all the campaigns except for some special missions with few targets like dopple, shiro, varesh, abbadon) it is also interesting that people like and use other skills like epidemic/death blossom/spiteful spirit when they are just the same as barrage when it comes to the requirement for them to work effectively. they are just all adjacent-spread skills. even on a group as small as two adjacent enemies together, a generic brg-spln setup would do appreciable damage. it's a bit surprising that other classes don't usually look down upon their other adjacent-spread skills and label them highly conditional for use in general pve.

Old

May 25, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

#25

I Might Avenge U

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: California

Profession: R/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KazeMitsui

if i were you just keep the build it was before but yea maybe take out one of the sundering/penetrating attacks for mauraders since it does do quite a lot of dmg

Actually, I did that in the last build I posted:

So what I'm getting from you guys, Is to switch out Penetrating attack for Marauder's attack. Also to use a different rez on my non-fleshy build, I have no objections so far to epidemic:

R/Me
Fleshy Condition Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming shot[/skill][skill]Marauder's Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Concussion Shot[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

R/Rt
Non-Fleshy Power Damage Build:

[skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][skill]Sundering Attack[/skill][skill]Marauder's Shot[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Concussion Shot[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Marksmanship: 16 12+1+3

Wilderness Survival: 12 10+2

Expertise: 9 8+1

Bow:

[wiki]Elswyth's Recurve Bow[/wiki]

suggestions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven

it is interesting that barrage is often considered not effective/too situational for general pve just because it requires a crowded "clump" of monsters to work. (personally though, i do not share this opinion as it worked well for me pretty much through all the campaigns except for some special missions with few targets like dopple, shiro, varesh, abbadon)

it is also interesting that people like and use other skills like epidemic/death blossom/spiteful spirit when they are just the same as barrage when it comes to the requirement for them to work effectively. they are just all adjacent-spread skills. even on a group as small as two adjacent enemies together, a generic brg-spln setup would do appreciable damage. it's a bit surprising that other classes don't usually look down upon their other adjacent-spread skills and label them highly conditional for use in general pve.

Well there are also very good reasons why [skill]Barrage[/skill] isn't liked very much as an AoE damage skill. To name the few:

1) It is really more of a spam attack, and has no real use when in general PvE, and it really kind of sucks that you choose not to use a different Elite in Nightfall.

2) It is an elite skill, so skill such as Epidemic, and death blossom will work under somewhat similar cases as Barrage, but do it without wasting an elite skill.

3) In general PvE, you really aren't targeting more than 2-3 people at the MOST. which doesn't happen very often, but even when it does, that is only a 26-39 increase in damage, but that barley ever happens for more than a few seconds, so therefore, you are usually doing +13 dmg to a single target, which is easily outweighed by a regular skill, such as [skill]Crossfire[/skill]

4) If you do choose Barrage, you are missing out on preparations, which could actually make up for Barrage on their own.

5) Barrage is very Situational-dependent skill. If you have a build that can easily incorporate Barrage, it will only thrive in PvE about 20% of the time which probably won't be happening very often..

While, in my case, Epidemic will probably be working about 40% of the time at the worst. So therefore, Epidemic would easily make up for Barrage IN MY BUILD.

6) Barrage is a Dmg-only skill, while my elite skill is a dmg, and energy management skill. Therefore, Prepared shot would be better for MY PLAYSTYLE in PvE. I like to have a lot of energy in case I get into situations where I have to survive, or fell like spamming the crap out of a boss, and wasting all my energy

.

7) On that note, Single-Targeting skills are much more effective at bosses...

That's all I can think of...

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May 25, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05	#26
KazeMitsui Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: pretty sure its all up in yo face Guild: [WHAT] Profession: R/	sounds like youre all set and ready to play when you do come back

May 25, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19	#27
I Might Avenge U Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Profession: R/	Darn Tootin'! just gotta get some stuff together, lquidate some of my assests, and check characters for birthday presies!! Really want a mini-rurik! On that note, does anyone know the current prices of Wintergreen CCs, Yuletide tonics, and CC Weapons (non-Wintergreen)? I can't wait to start up again, it'll be fun, only 3 more weeks....

May 26, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57	#28
seven Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2005	well i guess we just have different experiences with it then. in general missions it works for me most of the time. i just personally found it easy to look for / clump them together with just proper hero flagging or a good guildie tank. i've tried a preapared-condition spread build before, and i can honestly say i still finished missions much faster with a generic splinter barrage. on that note, with the investment in channeling, you can have access to utilities like warmonger's (to cast on your your melee partymates). and some nice armor-ignoring dmg for hi-lvl areas from nightmare and or bloodsong, to switch to when they are already few or just bosses left. you make the your most impact when it is dangerous with a large mob, but a bit balanced for the few left afterwards. besides, if they are already to few to clump up; then they should easily mopped up by the rest of your party anyways. it just puzzling that a skill like epidemic, which also needs the same mechanic as adjacent enemies to work, gets a higher percentage. epidemic needs them to clump together for it to work. unless of course you're manually switching targets to spread the condition around. a difference in the splinter-barrage when compared to a long lasting ajacent spread hex/spell is that it only needs an instance of clumping to do most of its damage. not many mobs last for more than 3-4 repeats. i have never found any energy problems with that setup. warmonger's may seem pricey, but compared to spamming dist/savage/conc; it is usually just cast once and forget, until it recharges. however, i do switch from vamp to zealous once the rare edenial/debilitating monster hits once in a while. all i'm saying is just that not everyone hates it and thinks its situational i guess it just works for my playstyle. btw, what kind of cc weapons are you looking for? (got some in the trunk)

May 26, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19	#29
Marverick Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: R/	Death Blossom does good damage to a single target, Apply Poison -> Burning Arrow also does good single-target damage and Epidemic is just a kicker for groups. In contrast, Barrage does terrible single target damage and half-decent duo target damage. Spiteful Spirit can be kept up on multiple things to do lots of damage even if everything is just by itself, and it also ignores armor and is passive. Splinter Barrage does rip up mobs but it is a tad bit too conditional and sucks against <=2 targets. I'd just use a Dervish with Splinter Weapon to kill mobs as they do good single-target damage as well.

May 26, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12	#30
seven Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2005	the other channeling skills work pretty well when they are already <=2, as you shouldn't be using it anymore with the low number of enemies. bringing splinter barrage leaves you with 6 more (5 with res) slots to work with for <=2 monsters. going that route does not mean you are forced nor should use it on single targets as well. even though barrage removes preps, that doesn't mean you can't carry preps when they are already to few to use barrage on. Last edited by seven; May 26, 2007 at 04:18 AM // 04:18..

May 28, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12	#31
I Might Avenge U Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Profession: R/	Wow, I got to play a bit this weekend actually, and my build is fairly decent, but I'm only level 5 right now. Even at level 5 I must say, I'm quite impressed. I get a fairly decent energy management, and I can kill most things with the Apply Poison>Screaming shot>Epidemic>Prep Shot combo. Plus with the release of Tomes, Everything in life works again . Great things tomes are.. Also, it turn out I got a Bone Dragon as a minipet on one of my chars for a B-day present. Good Omen I guess . EXTRA STORAGE FTW!!!

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