Curse

Lurid · Mar 15, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I dunno. The only people who are probably crazy demanding are those r3 scrubs that think they know everything and tell you stuff they think is true.

Rank is irrelevant, i've seen plenty of people who are higher ranks and can't play their class. Remember gladiator points are universal to the account, you could be amazing at X class, and utter shit in class G. Not to mention the popularity of builds like IWAY, for quick point farming, wherein rank is not indicative of skill.

jesh · Mar 15, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

When thing get crazy, the Healers Boon guy, like any other healing prayers guy, needs to go into super-spam mode to keep up, which you can only keep up for so long before you run out of energy. Especially on 3 pips of energy.

That's why it's best on a necro.

Xeones The Great · Mar 15, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

necro equals no divine favor. no divine favor means constantly reapplying healer's boon AND no 42 extra heal on every spell.

nty.

dgb · Mar 15, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeones The Great

necro equals no divine favor. no divine favor means constantly reapplying healer's boon AND no 42 extra heal on every spell.

nty.

It's what, ten casts at 0 div favour? That's plenty given the recharge. The df heal has allways been an argument against N/Mo healers, but when you're abusing something as broken as soul reaping it really doesn't matter. What's an extra 42 health when compared to an extra heal other every five seconds.

Samuel Dravis · Mar 17, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I don't bring Orison on my monk anymore, even as a healer. After factions I had better skills for healing, and since Nightfall I find that Dismiss Condition provides a nearly equal heal (-15) and has much greater utility, including use on myself. Combo'd with Vigorous Spirit, at 15 Healing Prayers, 10 divine and 10 prot it heals for 107 (I believe) on myself. Very nice.

I remember when I was first playing my ele and I couldn't kill one of the seeds in Old Ascalon because he had the godly skill Orison. I guess its days of godliness are gone.

Legendary Shiz · Mar 17, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeones The Great

this is for general PvE. again, 4+5 seconds is not like 2 second recharge. im not gonna heal and wait for 5 seconds to heal again.

lol, maybe Orison would be leet if you could only have one skill on your bar like you seem to think. You can use your other 7 skills on the bar while the 5 second recharge kicks in for words or any of the other skills. If you're simply spamming orison, you probably should just uninstall.

moriz · Mar 17, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeones The Great

this is for general PvE. again, 4+5 seconds is not like 2 second recharge. im not gonna heal and wait for 5 seconds to heal again. words of comfort in conditional and so is dwaynas kiss. ethereal light, 5 seconds. see wat i mean? and, also, healers dont suck. maybe prot is better, but a 8-ppl party needs some sort of healing. but lets not get too off-topic.

and that is where you go wrong. here are some examples to illustrate:

blessed light is nice, but there are better alternatives. therefore, blessed light sucks.

healer's boon+GoLE+heal party is nice, but there are better alternatives. therefore, healer's boon+GoLE+heal party sucks.

basically, here's the template: skill x is nice. are there better alternatives? if yes, then skill x sucks. if no, then skill x is good.

that is not just a pvp perspective. it is the only correct perspective. by not following this train of thought, you will always have an inferior build. it doesn't matter where you play.

DarkGanni · Mar 17, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Personally I don't hate orison however since factions came out etheral light has been my new fav heal skill, I understand its easily interruptible but you don't get hit all the time imo.

Div · Mar 18, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

Rank is irrelevant, i've seen plenty of people who are higher ranks and can't play their class. Remember gladiator points are universal to the account, you could be amazing at X class, and utter shit in class G. Not to mention the popularity of builds like IWAY, for quick point farming, wherein rank is not indicative of skill.

Of course rank isn't an indicator of skill. However, you're more likely to find lower ranked people being more demanding about skill usage than higher ranked players, who "trust" that the people they take will know what they're doing. Plus, most of the higher ranked players know each other and how each other play, whereas there are a lot more r3 pugs that don't know each other and can't trust each other's skill usage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

what melody said is very true, i too kmy time and read/understood his/her post and u can see orsion is fine for a quick fire off heal, but in the long run Ethereal is best in the long run. orsion manily sucks cos of its lak of a heal, 77 on 16 healing ( that might be 17 cant remember) witch is no where near enougth to heal a party memeber, maybe when u where facing elave 8 char and where being hit for 10 dam per 10 secons it was fine but in high end its nor worth it, kiss will heal for better every time, there r so many Wamos out there that it heals for over 100 for me most times, without DF there. its jsut not worth it

first f most r9 teams where xiway's and dont know one end of a sword form the other. orsion isnt even need in HA anymore with an LoD infuse LOD recharging all the tiem it covers orsiorn for all the party for only 5e. and with a ZB/Restor or Divert ur sure to b doing fine.

First of all, I'm not sure if I can trust someone who can't spell correctly and play with 16 healing prayers (this isn't pve buddy). I'd really suggest for you to go to grade school instead of playing this game if you misspell every other word. Regardless, I'm just pointing out that lower ranked groups are more likely to be more picky on skill usage because they don't know who they're playing with and can't trust their monk's skills. And if you think LoD recharges all the time, then you've never played an LoD/infuse in halls before, or you just played it horribly. A five second recharge is far from fast when facing heavy pressure and you're in constant need of healing. Also, I have no idea what a zb/restor or divert really has to do with orison being a usable skill, but whatever. And where do you play that you see so many wamos out there? AB? Noob arena? Because most serious PvP'ers don't consider those places PvP.

Again, all of you are overanalyzing the skill and reducing these skills to pure numbers. Guild wars isn't just a numbers game, because if it was it'd be quite plain and everyone can be a "pro".

moriz · Mar 18, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

GW is a number game until you start playing it.

Age · Mar 18, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Of course rank isn't an indicator of skill. However, you're more likely to find lower ranked people being more demanding about skill usage than higher ranked players, who "trust" that the people they take will know what they're doing. Plus, most of the higher ranked players know each other and how each other play, whereas there are a lot more r3 pugs that don't know each other and can't trust each other's skill usage.

First of all, I'm not sure if I can trust someone who can't spell correctly and play with 16 healing prayers (this isn't pve buddy). I'd really suggest for you to go to grade school instead of playing this game if you misspell every other word. Regardless, I'm just pointing out that lower ranked groups are more likely to be more picky on skill usage because they don't know who they're playing with and can't trust their monk's skills. And if you think LoD recharges all the time, then you've never played an LoD/infuse in halls before, or you just played it horribly. A five second recharge is far from fast when facing heavy pressure and you're in constant need of healing. Also, I have no idea what a zb/restor or divert really has to do with orison being a usable skill, but whatever. And where do you play that you see so many wamos out there? AB? Noob arena? Because most serious PvP'ers don't consider those places PvP.

Again, all of you are overanalyzing the skill and reducing these skills to pure numbers. Guild wars isn't just a numbers game, because if it was it'd be quite plain and everyone can be a "pro".

Rank in PvE really doesn't mean a thing as there are some fine PvE Monks out there.They can and possibly have 3 protector titles for each campaign.When you ping a skill bar that is a good sign of a good Monk and in PvP that is more team oriented and some could use a voice comm.I wouldn't care about rank or not and this is PvE and btw who wants to play in the HoH anyway it is boring with all the FoTM builds in there.
@moriz you are correct for the most part.

JR · Mar 19, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

It really is the definition of mediocre - not terrible, but sketchy as to whether it is really worth a slot.

Flashy · Mar 19, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

[QUOTE=Xeones The Great]i tend to not bring words of comfort because i bring dismiss always.QUOTE]

I never bring Kiss, cause I got Holy Veil

and people run Order of Apostasy...

Orison isn't dead... just keep watching halls you might see me running around with Orison... though I mostly play prot

Do you guys spend any points in Divine Favor? If so then Orison heals for 100+ and not 65

And wow... just wow Olly... U must be 1 of the IWAYers

... LoD covering up for Orison... no way... 5 secs recharge is long... people are actually able to deal 80+ damage in 5 seconds... and why use LoD if 1 party member is under 80%... I rather use Orison on that single target then

Rank does matter

If it didn't then people wouldn't spam lf r3/6/9/10/12+... [viet] full of r10... they own... [Gr] the same... [hex] same...
Rank does matter

just because ure good and play with r9 doesn't mean you are r9 and certainly doesn't mean you can say that rank doesn't matter...

Just... wow

Flashy

olly123 · Mar 19, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

First of all, I'm not sure if I can trust someone who can't spell correctly and play with 16 healing prayers (this isn't pve buddy). I'd really suggest for you to go to grade school instead of playing this game if you misspell every other word. Regardless, I'm just pointing out that lower ranked groups are more likely to be more picky on skill usage because they don't know who they're playing with and can't trust their monk's skills. And if you think LoD recharges all the time, then you've never played an LoD/infuse in halls before, or you just played it horribly. A five second recharge is far from fast when facing heavy pressure and you're in constant need of healing. Also, I have no idea what a zb/restor or divert really has to do with orison being a usable skill, but whatever. And where do you play that you see so many wamos out there? AB? Noob arena? Because most serious PvP'ers don't consider those places PvP.

Again, all of you are overanalyzing the skill and reducing these skills to pure numbers. Guild wars isn't just a numbers game, because if it was it'd be quite plain and everyone can be a "pro".

First of all, I'm not sure if I can trust someone who can't spell correctly and play with 16 healing prayers (this isn't pve buddy). I'd really suggest for you to go to grade school instead of playing this game if you misspell every other word. Regardless, I'm just pointing out that lower ranked groups are more likely to be more picky on skill usage because they don't know who they're playing with and can't trust their monk's skills. And if you think LoD recharges all the time, then you've never played an LoD/infuse in halls before, or you just played it horribly. A five second recharge is far from fast when facing heavy pressure and you're in constant need of healing. Also, I have no idea what a zb/restor or divert really has to do with orison being a usable skill, but whatever. And where do you play that you see so many wamos out there? AB? Noob arena? Because most serious PvP'ers don't consider those places PvP.

Again, all of you are overanalyzing the skill and reducing these skills to pure numbers. Guild wars isn't just a numbers game, because if it was it'd be quite plain and everyone can be a "pro".[/QUOTE]

first off what ur saying is lets judge the book by is cover, lets h8 all ppl because there black, dyslexic (myself) or have downsyndorme. learn to be less self cantered b4 u accuse.

also this is a PVE forum hence the fact that there’s a PVP second with its own PVP builds. That’s why we run 16 not what ever u deicide to run, i may b a n00b by ur standards of 82-83 fame but i do know how to run monks in HA. LoD should b constantly recharging in PVE but in PVP it should be used when under pressure, where as in a pressure group that’s most of the battle. the ZB/restor was mestake probably meant to b ZB/infuse

the Warmo was in PVE or are u one of these PVP players who think the know PVE cos they cna hold halls there’s a big difference between the games. so learn the difference b4 talking about a PVE/PVP topic not just one half. and monking si numbers or otherwise there would b no need for them, u need to know how long till u get ur next 10e, how much ur heal for whether or not ur going to heal for enough. its all numbers m8

Polynikes of Sparta · Mar 19, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

my eyes... they burn... get spellcheck... holy ----

Remes · Mar 19, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I have played my PvE monk for 16 months now, since prophecies, and perhaps I am old school but I still carry Orison with the majority of my healing builds. I have never had a problem with the skill. It is a straightforward bread a butter heal. I usually carry Dwayna's Kiss(I love this skill!) and Word of Healing along with Orison and those three skills make up the back bone of my main healing build. I guess what it really comes down to is your play style. Do you want a basic skill that will ALWAYS work to its full effect (even if it is a little underpowered compared to the secondary effects of other skills), Or do you want a skill that depends on your target being under certain circumstances to be effective?

Age · Mar 19, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

[QUOTE=Flashy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeones The Great

i tend to not bring words of comfort because i bring dismiss always.QUOTE]

I never bring Kiss, cause I got Holy Veil

and people run Order of Apostasy...

Orison isn't dead... just keep watching halls you might see me running around with Orison... though I mostly play prot

Do you guys spend any points in Divine Favor? If so then Orison heals for 100+ and not 65

And wow... just wow Olly... U must be 1 of the IWAYers

... LoD covering up for Orison... no way... 5 secs recharge is long... people are actually able to deal 80+ damage in 5 seconds... and why use LoD if 1 party member is under 80%... I rather use Orison on that single target then

Rank does matter

If it didn't then people wouldn't spam lf r3/6/9/10/12+... [viet] full of r10... they own... [Gr] the same... [hex] same...
Rank does matter

just because ure good and play with r9 doesn't mean you are r9 and certainly doesn't mean you can say that rank doesn't matter...

Just... wow

Flashy

Rank doesn't matter as it wasn't you who got that rank emote it was a team and when you know the maps of HA it get even easier to obtain.It is very different doing a coop mission as spawns are random and have to be prepared for that.It is very unpredictable of what could happen to you in a coop mission and with HA it can be more predictable.You would be surprised at just what some of the PvE only Monks can do.I am not going to bring up TA or GvG as that is way better than HA.Don't forget this is the Campfire not the Glad forum.

Melody Cross · Mar 23, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

HBoons don’t suck. It is reactive healing instead of proactive protection spells. That’s why most monks remain in favor of prot. Its not that prot is more powerful. Prot is easier to play.

Reactive healing has advantages that prot spells don’t have. How useful is RoF against a degen team? How much protection does Aegis give you against SFs? What use is SB if the pressure is 55 dmg per hit? What good is Prot Spirit against that same pressure?

Direct heals are capable of doing something no prot spell besides ZB can boast: they heal any type of damage! When the meta is constantly shifting and when you are unsure what you will face in the next game, healing prayers supply a counter to every type of damage in the game. Could they be more useful if they were buffed? Sure they could. But so could everything.

The downside to reactive healing is that it is far less flexible than prot in its timing. If you overprot a player, then those prots are still there. For a while at least, that player is not going to be something the other team wants to hit because they know there’s a monk sitting on him with a full bar. They switch targets, warriors run to someone else, casters turn on other players, that player can relax for a second and get some skills off instead of kiting. If you over heal a player, then you wasted energy topping off a health bar that is already full.

To use healing properly, you have to be more aware of what and where you cast. Good monks can use healing prayers effectively. They can use them very effectively when the counters in the meta are all build to shut down enchantment spammers or avoid most prot heals.

I’m trying very hard not to call anyone a bad monk, but some of the people in this thread make me wonder.

Xeones The Great, I don’t know if this will help you or not. I hoped that I had helped and I’m sorry I ever came in this thread now. I’ll say this to you in parting: those numbers don’t lie. Orison is the better heal for single target pressure. But it’s rare that a PvE tank takes and holds agro in this game anymore. Team healing over time is preferred, and as a monk you shouldn’t get hit often in PvE. Try ELight. And if it doesn’t work for your playstyle, try something else. Monks have to be like water. Our skillbars change every map, every mission, every GvG or HA or whatever you play. To become rigid in your beliefs of what is good and what is not only means you will not understand why you are being nubstomped later. You won’t understand because you have this “perfect build”. In truth, no build is perfect. All skills have there use when facing their opposite, and all skills “fail” when something brings and uses counters to them.

That’s why I thank you for opening this thread, even if it has taken a very bad turn. You made me think about an old skill in a new way and reminded me (I think we could all use this little reminder from time to time) not to just grab the latest fad I see in obs and go for it. Think about your bar, ask questions, and then find your own answers.

GGs and GL to you

moko · Mar 23, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta

my eyes... they burn... get spellcheck... holy ----

Quote:

first off what ur saying is lets judge the book by is cover, lets h8 all ppl because there black, dyslexic (myself) or have downsyndorme. learn to be less self cantered b4 u accuse.

Dyslexia

seriously Polynikes of Sparta, stop being an ass.

____________________

this topic makes me cry. :'<

theres only very few good posts in here..seriously, wtf? stop posting so much crap. Oo

maybe ill have to point it out "nicely" for you to understand.

CAMPFIRE IS A PVE FORUM SO STOP TALKING ABOUT ANY FORM OF PVP HERE. THE AMOUNT OF "FAME", "RANK" AND "HA" ON THIS PAGE ALONE MAKES ME PUKE ALREADY

-_-

elektra_lucia · Mar 23, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quite frankly you can be a one legged, blonde, black dyslexic jew with down syndrome and be hitlers worst nightmare for all I care; however, nothing stops you from copying your post in word or something then spell checking it.

I'm quite sure there's errors in my post but if I made that many I think I'd spell check it.

Quote:

To use healing properly, you have to be more aware of what and where you cast

I agreed with most of your post; however, I don't know about this... Sometimes protting the right before attack or during can be just as hard.

Anyways, orison of heal is pretty good where ever. PVE, PVP.