Curse

Threll · Apr 29, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Original Build:
[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill][skill]Protective Was Kaolai[/skill][skill]Soothing Memories[/skill][skill]Blood is Power[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Recuperation[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

Alternative Skills (Order/Battery):
[skill]Order of the Vampire[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill]

Alternative Skills (Healing):
[skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill]

Alternative Skills (Spirits):
[skill]Recovery[/skill]

I just recently purchased Factions, and decided to "upgrade" my Necromancer's Orders build that I use in Tombs. I have decided to use the Ritualist class and the benefit of its Spirits for multiple-target effects/buffs. I figured this would be a good build to "break the ice," since I haven't posted on this forum before. Also, I saw that a discussion of Tombs MM builds took place just recently, and I figured maybe the subject matter was still germane.

Profession: Necromancer/Ritualist
Name: Spiritual Order
Type: PvE
Category: Support

Attributes:
* Blood Magic: 10 + 3 + 1
* Soul Reaping: 8 + 3
* Restoration Magic: 12

Skills Set:
1. Order of Pain (Blood)
2. Blood Renewal (Blood)
3. Protective Was Kaolai (Restoration)
4. Soothing Memories (Restoration)
5. Blood is Power {Elite} (Blood)
6. Life (Restoration)
7. Recuperation (Restoration)
8. Flesh of My Flesh (Restoration)

Summary:
This is a standard Orders/Battery build once the fight is underway. The only difference between this and the semi-generic N/Mo Orders build I use is the application of spirits and the use of an item-based party heal rather than the spell Heal Party. Re-casting Life as often as possible will keep +120hp heals coming to the party every 20 seconds; whereas Recuperation should give all party members, pets, and minions +3hp regen. This regen, along with Blood Renewal in preparation for a BiP casting, will keep your health bar full since the 2 superior runes lower your max HP to within maintainable limits.

Notes & Concerns:
Try to cast Blood Renewal in anticipation of the Recuperation spirit dying, since it will not quite last until you are able to cast another in its place. I believe it's down for all of 6 seconds... but making sure you have your regen from BR in place before it is down will help keep the OoP cycle going during Recup's down time. Also, dishing out a heal or two (including a self-heal) using Soothing Memories while holding Kaolai's ashes will only cost you 2 energy a pop, while healing for +82hp. If you drop the ashes immediately afterwards, then you can tack another +70hp heal on. Edit: If 14 Blood Magic isn't enough for you, drop Soul Reaping to 6 + 3 and put the points into Blood Magic. You will have 15 Blood Magic, and at 9 Soul Reaping, the drop in energy return won't be too noticeable.

Credit:
Me, I suppose...

Recovery and Spirit Light are possible replacements for spirits and/or healing, depending on the area. Order of the Vampire can easily replace Order of Pain, in addition to swapping Blood Ritual for Blood is Power. Edit: Mend Body and Soul is another self/other healing option, and it will remove a condition if the target is within earshot of a spirit.

With my N/Mo build, I generally like to bring Hex/Condition removal skills (Smite Hex/Extinguish)... but lately the Monks I've PUGed with have been on their game hex-wise, and it no longer seems necessary. I've found through a few test runs that I can better support the Monk (and the party) through area-effect Spirit buffs and added healing.

Lourens · Apr 29, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

JB Great Build gonna try this out

Nkah Sennyt · Apr 29, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Interesting idea with the spirits. I'll try this next time. Perhaps drop Prot was Kao for MBaS, it's a glorious skill [opinion, ofc - the build looks nifty without it].

royal mercenary · Apr 30, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

gr8 build mate

gonna ty this out immeadiatly

blue.rellik · Apr 30, 2007, 10:54 AM // 10:54

I've noticed that Oov + Blood Rit > BiP + OoP in terms of killing speed and safety. Blood ritual is pretty much all the monk needs for mana (though I also bring Succor for him as well)

Threll · May 02, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Thanks to everyone for the constructive criticism and praise.

Re: OoV + BRit vs. OoP + BiP -- I agree, BRit is all the Monk/Necro/EleRanger/whatever should need. However, I can literally keep OoP going at all times (with no break between segments); and BiP can be cast from a distance, whereas BRit is a touch skill. I prefer to stay as far from combat as I can, when I can. However, swapping OoV in OoP's place and switching BiP out for BRit is an easy alternative. None of your skill points will need to be redistributed.

Re: Succor -- I just don't think it's that great. I used to bring it for the Monk with my old N/Mo build... but I think the added healing from the spirits will negate such a need for the Monk's energy. To boot, BiP will allow them to regenerate more energy in a shorter span of time than BRit, lessening the urgency a bit. Perhaps there could be some sort of Mo/Rt healer developed that would kill a spirit (such as Life, for the added bonus party heal on its death) to gain energy? I dunno, I'm getting off track...

Re: Protective Was Kaolai vs. Mend Body and Soul -- I had thought about putting MBaS into the build as well... but I saw it replacing Soothing Memories moreso than PWK. Still, it's a good, cheap heal with the possibility for Condition removal if the Ranger is near a spirit (which they very well may be, since there will now be 4 on the battlefield nearly all the time). I am just loathe to drop PWK since my original N/Mo build took pressure off the Monk by casting Heal Party if more than 2 people were under fire (and the energy was available). However, Life may counterbalance that well enough that PWK can be dropped. The extra +armor is nice in a pinch, but let's face it--as an Orders Necro, you're pretty screwed if they actually break through the front lines and get all the way to you.

Good ideas... and I think all of them that enlist more Ritualist skills (and the OoV+BRit/OoP+BiP switch) are totally applicable to the build. The more I run this setup in Tombs, the more people tell me how much they enjoy the fresh skill set and the added party-wide AoE bonuses from the spirits. Thanks to all of you for making it that much better!

Threll · May 02, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Edited the original post to include the skill bar w/ in-depth skill descriptions. Also, alternative skills and their associated pop-ups are listed by category below the original build.

A note has been added regarding 14 Blood Magic vs. 15 Blood Magic (if you feel you need the extra point).

Coloneh · May 04, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Iv been using N/Rt orders for awhile now, just because barrage rangers are to stupid to bring rez chant. my builds a bit different: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Coloneh/PuG_Orders

KlutzySpy · May 10, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I use N/Rt aswell for tombs, but i have a completely different approach.

[skill]Order of the Vampire[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill][skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

I added the Signet of Lost Souls after the SR nerf. I used to bring this spirit, because it's cheap and effective against Burning:

[skill]Recovery[/skill]

Info:
Hp: 330 - The lower the better when sacrificing so much.
Energy: 45 - Thinking of adding more due to the SR nerf

Attributes:
Blood: 12 + 3 + 1
Soul: 6 + 3
Restoration: 11

Armor:
Max (60) on all (Ancient)
Undertaker insignia on all

Sup Blood
Sup Soul
Recovery
Restoration
Purity

Staff:
Dark Tendril Staff
Energy +10
Dmg 11-22 Req 9 blood
HSR blood 20%
HCT spells 10%
Energy +5
Enchantments +20%

All of this together gives a OotV-coverage of 89%, i can fully selfheal, heal others and cast defences on them.

Works splendid

ZenRgy · May 10, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Awaken the Blood on high sac builds make me cringe.

KlutzySpy · May 11, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Sacrifice 6 more hp then i can heal with vamp gaze, so it works :P

if i get fastrecharge i heal both sacrifices with Spirit Light (always a spirit in earshot with B/P)

Threll · May 15, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I haven't had any problems post-SR-nerf with my energy using the beforementioned build. Also, I agree with the Recovery spirit. I think it's a very good alternative to using Life since the likelihood of Life popping at an opportune moment can be quite low at times.

As for Awaken The Blood... I just don't like it. In order to compensate for the extra sacrifice, people usually wind up using skills/spells that steal health from mobs; and I try to stay as far away from combat as I can at all times. There are exceptions, such as when I step in to throw a heal on someone, but even then I'm farther from the mob than the person I'm healing. Still a back-lines kind of deal.

With Recuperation kicking, the only time I really need to throw on Blood Renewal is in preparation for Blood is Power, to cover the extra sacrifice. I generally run with 295 HP, and I can maintain 99% OoP coverage (-1% for the occasional heal or mid-combat Recuperation re-cast) with about 43 energy, if I recall. Yeah, I know... I need to spring for those Radiant Insignias. :P

It's true... my build does not use 16 Blood Magic, and it is often frowned upon immediately for this. However, after pumping Blood Magic to 15 using redistributed points as beforementioned, I think the trade-off is hardly noticeable when compared with the newfound benefits the build has to offer.

It all sprouted from the idea that with a Ritualist secondary, I could use Recuperation to balance out my HP during a OoP or OotV cycle--and that everyone on my team, including minions and pets, would receive the same health regen pips that I did from the spirit.

Anyway, everyone's posted variations (however close to or far from the OP they may be) look great, too. I think it all comes down to playing style, or perhaps the types of PuGs you happen to come into contact with the most during your gaming experience.

Morticia of Cyana · May 15, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

This AoE healing/order build already existed with primary Rt.

KlutzySpy · May 15, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

yeah, like i said it's a whole different approach

i stay close to enemies, thats just my style :P
if i spam the weaponspell on whoever is taking hits, i need that signet to gain some energy back as it takes alot, but is worth it

Moloch Vein · May 15, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

To the original poster, this is a fun build idea, I like it. My main concern would be that it feels slightly energy intense.

The build posted by Klutzy, well, I don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, so I will simply say it, sucks. Counting on getting in range for a Vampiric Gaze... as an Orders necro?? To compensate for AtB? All the while mentioning hp should be maintained as low as possible?

The one thing an Orders necro needs to do is to stay alive. A good Orders necro never dies until his entire party has been obliterated. This looks like a suicide build.

Regarding the OoP/OoV discussion... there has been some discussion about this, and my main feeling is that there is a certain perfectionism about keeping "constant coverage" that is truly counter-productive. With a 20% enchant, the leak is max 1 second, and with good equipment, on the average a bit lower than that. Compare this with the huge extra energy cost (literally twice as much... if you want to make sure of constant coverage, add an unspecified amount more...) of running Order of Pain. I didn't like OoP even when it was priced the same as OoV, and I feel the skill "balance" since the SR nerf really put the chest in the coffin on it as a viable alternative for a tombs build. People who still suggest that I should bring both, well, make me laugh.

The healing effect on a group of spamming rangers of OoV is impossible to overstate. It takes a huge amount of pressure off the monks. It also takes a lot of the need of BR/BiP out of the window.

The one problem noted is that BR is a touch spell, whereas BiP is not. Well, you aren't a BiP, you're an Orders necromancer, and you're not supposed to e-boost the entire party. The monk/mm can keep in the backline where they are supposed to be, and even fall back a little further if they need your services. All in all, this helps their survival.

I'm not at home at the moment so I can't post my personal build, this is something I will remedy maybe in a few hours.

Peace!

Threll · May 15, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

If it existed with primary Ritualist instead, then I'm sure it was slightly different to compensate for the lack of Soul Reaping. Either way, thanks for the tip.

As for OoV being 5 energy now... to be honest, I'm slacking on keeping track of GW news. I had no idea they had lowered the cost. That in mind, I'm probably going to swap out OoP the next time I'm in a Tombs group.

In addition, Recovery will now probably replace Life in my skill bar for good. All I needed was a bit more energy to throw it into the cycle, and I think OoV's re-vamp (pun intended) will do the trick. Heh...

KlutzySpy · May 15, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

oh, its down to 5? bye bye signet of lost souls :P welcome recovery

and no, i never die with this build.. 50%block if anything hits me, and full undertaker..

Moloch Vein · May 15, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Alright, as promised this is my build for Orders.

Blood Magic - 12+1+3
Soul Reaping - 9+3
Protection Prayers - 9
Healing Prayers - 3

Equipment: As noted, two superor runes. Energy armor. Blood magic staff with energy and enchant+20 modification. Max health is according to taste - I prefer to run with between 105 and 220.

Spells:

Protective Spirit - Shielding Hands - Rebirth
Blood Renewal - Order of the Vampire - Blood Ritual - Awaken The Blood
Mending

Traditionally Orders necromancers used to help a little with Heal Party. Nowadays that's a luxury we can't afford due to our broken energy management.

Low health makes OoV eminently spammable.

Mending is not really necessary but even at a modest 3 in Healing Prayers it's still a nice +2. If energy becomes sparse drop it.

Protective Spirit and Shielding Hands are added for the third and fourth floor of Tombs, where the Siege Wurms have great range. If you have low health, a wurm can one-hit-kill you there. PS should be up at all times when a wurm is in radar range. Shielding Hands are only used if you actually catch aggro from the melees (your rangers screwed up) and have to ride it out.

First and second floor of Tombs is more relaxing at 1hp but you really want all the energy you can get to run the build successfully.

Firmly tell the monk and mm that they need to stay in the backline to get BR..

That's all.

Threll · May 16, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

I used to run with something similar, but I feel that the expansions added too many new horizons for Orders Necromancers to ignore.

Moloch Vein · May 16, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Allow me to be clear. I love experimentation. The problem is that as the situation with the necromancer's energy management looks today, we can not afford much more than being the brainless toad pressing 1 every five seconds.

A spirit spell with a cost of 25 energy... that is HUGE. If Soul Reaping did work like it did in the past, I would have had no problem with it. As it is, I am unsure.

How much has this specific build been tested?

Kindly, Moloch