Curse

LifeInfusion · Jun 20, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Introduction:
Never mind the fact that elites in the Elementalist's Earth line aren't really awe-inspiring for PvE. The Elementalist itself is pretty darn fragile.

The fact of the matter is, Weapon of warding + Wielder's Boon has been exploited on E/Rts for quite a while and the recent change more or less mandates a primary Ritualist to use it efficiently.

Recent buffs to Ebon Hawk have basically made Stoning obsolete with its 15 energy cost and no other utility other than a conditional knockdown.

Theory:
Hexes have been always hard to remove, whether in PVP or PVE. Granted they are generally more deadly in PVP but while monking I found that a lot of hexes were stacked and Deny Hexes cannot remove dangerous hex spam fast enough (Repeare's Mark + Faintheartedness Necromancer boss, anyone?).

Elementalist/Mesmer
Level: 20

Energy Storage: 11 (10+1)
Earth Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 8 <-- breakpoint for 4 allies' hexes removed

- Ebon Hawk (Earth Magic) <-- recently buffed, does Weakness
- Glowstone (Earth Magic) <-- energy gain from weakness, moderate damage
- Churning Earth (Earth Magic) <--Hard mode mobs run faster so they won't be abble to flee this very easily
- Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic) <-- helps versus melee mobs
- Hex Eater Signet (Inspiration Magic) <-- energy management under pressure and hex removal
- Elemental Attunement [Elite] (Energy Storage) <-- 50% less energy strain
- Aura of Restoration (Energy Storage) <-- cover enchantment
- Resurrection Signet ()

Sideboard:
- Sandstorm [Elite] (Earth Magic) & - Earth Attunement (Earth Magic) in Normal mode, since mobs don't kite out of Sandstorm very often
- Earthquake/Dragon Stomp (Earth Magic) - knock down is nice, but not reliable. The 15 cooldown is doable though exhaustion takes 30 seconds to wear off (that's what energy storage is for, buffering exhaustion).
- Armor of Earth (Earth Magic) instead of Aura of Restoration (Energy Storage) as a Cover enchantment. It is especially useful since the only team armor buffs are Watch Yourself and Stand Your Ground and it exceeds the +25 armor cap.

Thrown out:
- Stone Daggers (Earth Magic) - unless you plan on annoying Reversal of Fortune prot monks, the risk of hitting a target with Reversal of Damage and Vengeful Weapon is too high for it to be viable. Not to mention the strain on energy.
- Stone Striker (Earth Magic) - the only real use is tanking with Mantra of Earth...as a cover enchantment the recharge is awful
- Stoneflesh Aura (Earth Magic) - tanking skill, cast time means it isn't a good cover enchantment either
- Ether Feast (Inspiration Magic) - great skill, even on an elementalist with high recharging spells. The use of Attunements warrants a Cover enchantment, however, and Aura of Restoration is the enchantment of choice.
- Master of Magic [Elite] (Energy Storage) - since it is totally useless on a build that relies on primarily one attribute
- Ash Blast (Earth Magic) - still isn't worth carrying since you need to hit a knocked down foe, which isn't always possible.

The other earth AoEs:
-Unsteady Ground (Earth Magic) [Elite] - so conditional it is not worth considering
-Eruption (Earth Magic) - 25 energy for blind when it ends, no thanks

Endnotes:
The archetype of a warder fits the newly-buffed Hex Eater's signet since a team with Wards tends to see greater benefit from the adjacent range hex removal supplied by Hex Eater Signet.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 21, 2007, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Huh? ... Eruption ain't on there?
Life... where have you been for the last 10 years? Eruption now blinds on every *pulse*, not on end. As earth magic currently stands, it's one of the few spells that truly carry it's weight, IMO.
And for PvE... Unsteady Ground's condition is hilariously easy to meet - anything will attack all the time when not casting. The fact that it doen't carry that horrendous 30s recharge that all the other earth AoEs are cursed with is even better.

And on any bar with Ebon Hawk... Stoning is far from obsolete. Careful timing on a PvE foe (with Hawk) will essentialy give you a KD on a 5s recharge... There's a reason Gale gives exhaustion, you dig? KDs are ftw

And, tbh, not taking Stone Daggers because of Vengeful/Reversal is pretty silly, the risk of hitting either of them two is actually kinda low when you think about it... There's neither *anywhere* in proph, only a handful of enemies use Vengeful Weapon in factions, and IIRC only... Words of Madness and Corsair monks use Reversal in NF. It's a moot point though... SD is null anyways on any bar with a low-recharge spell like Ebon Hawk.

Oh, and you can drop Aura, too - it sucks.

frojack · Jun 21, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Stoning is far better than Ebon Hawke. A 2 second cast makes it less than good to use. Stoning has perfect synergy with GoLE+Attune. Knockdown is far better than weakness full stop.

Eruption is far (far) better than Churning Earth.

Elemental Attunement is not much better than normal attune these days. If you have a spare Elite slot (elite e-management is not necessary with GoLE and Attune on your bar, and most earth elites are shit), use something more useful like Expel Hexes, Empathic Removal, Shatter Storm, or for some fun YAA with a caster axe modded with a 'Heavy' upgrade.

On a stretch I'd also suggest Grasping Earth to assist kiting. Armour of Earth can almost always replace Aura as a cover enchantment that's actually useful.

Back to Ebon Hawk. The skill sucks. If you really like applying weakness. 2 second cast, and it's a projectile. It's just bad. Caster never move around much in pve unless they get aoe'd or are about to die. So no knock on those annoying spells. Melee who you really want to weaken move around erratically if they are chasing a kiting softie. In hard mode especially they are almost impossible to hit successfully most the time. Your highly like to miss and thus no weakness. Enervating or Enfeeble/Enfeebling is far better (if you have no necro support). Incidentally, Glow Stone is not that hot. I'd actually sooner take Ash Blast or even 'Power Block me please' Stone dagger's over this.

phool · Jun 21, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

tbh eruption, ward against melee and ward against foes are the only earth skills worth consideration for teams, and maybe grasping earth though not for eles. As these work fine at low earth, the end result is basically that earth eles are obsolete. They can't dps well, have low-investment utility and tons of useless skills. Stoning wants to be good but it's not there yet. Stuff like churning earth is pretty bad, basically the same as fire skills like breath of fire, but good enough to be on an earth ele bar if only there was anything else to go with it.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 21, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Pretty much any earth bar without unsteady ground and eruption right now is bad. Those two shut down physicals with a vengeance. I've never been too wild about the ebon hawk/stoning combo. The "moving or attacking" condition on ebon hawk is kinda stupid, considering that skills like enervating charge exist. Stone daggers and ebon hawk/stoning do give similar damage, so if you realize that the weakness/kd thing is too clunky to use reliably, stone daggers comes out on top.

Not that I don't feel like a complete idiot spamming stone daggers.

LifeInfusion · Jun 21, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Huh? ... Eruption ain't on there?
Life... where have you been for the last 10 years? Eruption now blinds on every *pulse*, not on end.
[snip]
Oh, and you can drop Aura, too - it sucks.

I didn't know about the change to Eruption because I haven't bothered to use it ever since I got it in Prophecies and tried it out. By the time the mobs got blinded they were dead...but now that it blinds on pulse maybe it is worth considering
About Aura of Restoration: I said AoR is a cover, not a serious skill. -.-
If you 'll notice I did list Aror of Earth as an alternative cover, although with a longer recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Stoning is far better than Ebon Hawke. A 2 second cast makes it less than good to use. Stoning has perfect synergy with GoLE+Attune. Knockdown is far better than weakness full stop.

Eruption is far (far) better than Churning Earth.

Elemental Attunement is not much better than normal attune these days. If you have a spare Elite slot (elite e-management is not necessary with GoLE and Attune on your bar, and most earth elites are shit), use something more useful like Expel Hexes, Empathic Removal, Shatter Storm, or for some fun YAA with a caster axe modded with a 'Heavy' upgrade.

On a stretch I'd also suggest Grasping Earth to assist kiting. Armour of Earth can almost always replace Aura as a cover enchantment that's actually useful.

Back to Ebon Hawk. The skill sucks.
[snip]

The reason why I used ele attunement in the conceptual bar is because there was no earth elite I wanted to put in. Maybe Unsteady Ground/Sandstorm...

Incidentally, all these considerations are on the sideboard...except Eruption. I didn't get the memo that it blinds on pulse because the description hasn't changes since I tried it in Prophecies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Pretty much any earth bar without unsteady ground and eruption right now is bad.
[snip]
Not that I don't feel like a complete idiot spamming stone daggers.

I hate spamming...

Anyway, after the comments I made draft 2:
E-Me Earth AOE
Elementalist/Mesmer
Level: 20

Energy Storage: 11 (10+1)
Earth Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 8

- Stone Daggers (Earth Magic)
- Unsteady Ground [Elite] (Earth Magic)
- Eruption (Earth Magic)
- Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
- Hex Eater Signet (Inspiration Magic)
- Earth Attunement (Earth Magic)
- Armor of Earth (Earth Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Sideboard:
- Sandstorm [Elite] (Earth Magic) for normal mode

EDIT: Something I noticed was that Ash Blast does less damage than Stone daggers. That's pretty sad.

pingu666 · Jun 22, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

think my earth ele's use
ward against melee
ebon hawk
stoning
eruption
unsteady ground/sandstorm
gole
earth attunment
res

works pretty well for me, and thats what i used my zhed when i got survivor (plus the other wards at times)

pingu666 · Jun 22, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

think my earth ele's use
ward against melee
ebon hawk
stoning
eruption
unsteady ground/sandstorm
gole
earth attunment
res

works pretty well for me, and thats what i used my zhed when i got survivor (plus the other wards at times)

NeoJapan · Jun 24, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

ok....just made this earth build. does a lot of dmg and has great energy management.

12 Earth
12 Energy Srotage

Unsteady Ground
Churning Earth
Ebon Hawk
Stoning
Glowstone
Glyph of Elemental Power (great skill i think is overlooked)
Earth Attunement
Any resurrect

Lord Cooper · Jun 25, 2007, 12:35 PM // 12:35

very similar to my earth build..

max earth with sup rune
max e-storage with minor rune

stone daggers
ebon hawk
glowstone
stoning
obsidian flame
earth attunement
aura of restoration
rez sig

you get the constatnt spamming from daggers, mini spike from obby flame and ebon hawk glowstone and stoning used in sequence gives weakness energy and a kd. with aura up covering earth attunement you rarely run out of energy

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 01, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

[skill=card]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill=card]Air Attunement[/skill][skill=card]Glowstone[/skill][skill=card]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill=card]Stoning[/skill][skill=card]Sandstorm[/skill][skill=card]Churning Earth[/skill][skill=card]Ward Against Foes[/skill]

Lol, the funny thing is that AA and EA stack and makes for energy returns on every spell cast. I never thought it could stack, but, I guess I proved myself wrong. Also, if the group you're in doesn't agree with the build, it's still very augmentable. You want to blind a guy? ok, swap out AE,GS,EC,and Stoning, and re roll the build for the use of Eruption and Obsidian Flame, and 2 more spells of your choosing.

[skill=big]Unsteady Ground[/skill]

UG is interesting as an alternative to Sandstorm, but I'm bias

. I prefer SS. Churning Earth is great for the purpose I use it for, and that is for closing the trap that SS represents. SS is cast, damage begins, Churning Earth is immediately cast behind SS, and prevents running from the AoE, as well as dealing heavy damage to the group insnared by the 2 spells. If within the Ward, the spell can surely do damage for nearly its full duration. If you include Arcane Echo, things get more interesting.

Str0b0 · Jul 02, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Sandstorm is extremely useful if you have an AoE snare, like Deep Freeze to throw in. Just cast Sandstorm count to 2 then hit them with Deep freeze. It holds them in the area long enough to kill them rather nicely. I use this and Eruption stacked together in a single target area to pretty much take out anything. Ebon Hawk is very nice in HM not for the damage but because some of the enemy attribute categories are so highly buffed that the weakness condition actually pays offand the condition is insanely easy to meet if you are just patient with it. you have to let your target focus on one of your party members for a second before hitting Ebon Hawk.

AeroEng2 · Jul 05, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Could I get some feedback on this idea for Earth-based AoE?

Earth Magic 12
Water Magic 12
Energy Storage rest

Skills:
1.) Earth Attunement
2.) Water Attunement
3.) Unsteady Ground {E}
4.) Eruption
5.) Churning Earth
6.) Deep Freeze
7.) Freezing Gust
8.) (optional)*

*I am considring Kinetic Armor, Armor of Earth, Glyph of Lesser Energy, or res.

What do you guys think?

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 05, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Even with both attunements, I think your energy pool will be suffering from lack of energy storage.Also, I have successfully dodge Unsteady Ground without taking near to no damage the vast majority of the time. The deep freeze doesn't need to be hyper powered, just enough to keep them in the AoE.

[skill=big]Deep Freeze[/skill]

To use it as a snare for Earth magic, when Earth has its share of snares isn't my idea of efficient. My AB build last night was like this:

[skill=card]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill=card]Obsidian Flame[/skill][skill=card]Glowstone[/skill][skill=card]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill=card]Stoning[/skill][skill=card]Sandstorm[/skill][skill=card]Churning Earth[/skill][skill=card]Ward Against Foes[/skill]

This build desimated the enemies, even MMs and their minion armies fell before me at times. I then switched out OF and GS for AoR and Sunspear Rebirth Sig to go to Vizunah(Got masters in that mission as the only nuker

). So, don't think complex, think effective.

AeroEng2 · Jul 05, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

My only reservation about the Ward Against Foes approach is that it is at your location whereas the Deep Freeze affect can be projected to the target's location, effectively snaring the entire group. It is a hex, and therefore subject to removal, but I play mostly PvE, so hopefully the AIs won't react fast enough. In 10 sec (the duration of Deep Freeze), I can deal 580 damage in AoE and an additional 68 or so in target specific damage, so hopefully that will kill the entire group in one fell swoop.

You are right about the energy though. In that same time, assuming both attunements are up and active the entire time, I will expend about 55 energy. That's why I think I will carry GoLE in the 8 slot. But I do see your point. I haven't tried either build yet (haven't had a lot of time to play with summer school and work, etc), but I will try both and see which works better for me. Thanks for the input!

Str0b0 · Jul 06, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

You really don't need to put any points in water magic in order to use Deep Freeze as a snare. It will always be 66% for 10 seconds regardless of your water magic rating. So it's not inefficient since it requires no attribute points to use. It is a little costly behind the SS but if you time it right your SS can be a single spell kill by using the snare effectively.

phool · Jul 06, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Deep freeze works very well with auspicious incantation. I've found with the dot overload approach (which I've done with a me/e rather than ele as the player, works better imo) doesn't requires constant deep freeze. The initial aggro and how deep freeze fits into that is the key.