Curse

Snow Bunny · Jul 10, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Is Jagged bones that superior to flesh golem? I've been attempting heroway on HM missions now with a FG mm build, but most HM threads suggest the JB bone build. Pros of this? I assume that JB uses minions/horror/shambling/vamp hror as opposed to fiends+golem. The jagged's are weaker though...so shouldn't the increased enemy strength in HM invalidate usefulness of JB?

ca_aok · Jul 11, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Personally I don't even use a MM sometimes in HM since the minions die rather fast. Really all they are is cannon fodder to take some pressure off your monks. JB helps sustain your army better than FG does.

Batou of Nine · Jul 11, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

2 Levels weaker isnt much to worry about.
As ca aok said, MM's are mainly for cannon fodder, the meat shield, pressure relief and lastly a slight damage source...

Jagged Bones will sustain an MM army during battle twice as long as a normal MM army, if not even longer, plus spreading bleeding is fun :P. Mind you a HUMAN MM using Jagged Bones is quite useless, but heros use it very efficiently. In the end, JB>FG on a hero.

my 2 cents.
cheers.

Osi Ri S · Jul 11, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Personally i wouldnt even think to run JB one a human even in NM, its just too tedious and not efficient. In HM that only time my MM has a nice army of 5-10 minions is when i run JB so thats the only elite i run on my MM.

Cebe · Jul 11, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I also don't often use minions for Hard Mode because of the monster's capabilityes to take the lot out in one swipe, but where I have done, I actually give Olias [wiki]Aura of the Lich[/wiki]...he takes half damage from all sources and sacrifices less when spamming Blood of the Master. If I had to choose between Flesh Golem and Jagged Bones I would be tempted to go with Jagged Bones.

phool · Jul 11, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

JB's crap since it got nerfed, FG's not great either especially in the hands of AI, go AoTL. You'll find heroes are a lot more botm spam happy with aotl on, which sacs 1/4 of the health it does without botm, with the end result mms are way better at keeping their minions alive. Add dark bond to basically guarantee he'll never die unless the rest of your party has. Make the melee minion shambling horror for the JB effect without wasting your elite slot, it helps get the mm going and keep the numbers up - often several minions will be wiped at once from a HM aoe dot, you need some melee to stop that happening to your fiends and shambling are ideal.

Unless I'm prepared to micro my heroes I almost always give them this in HM

botm
shambling
fiend
dark bond
aotl
sols
2x free slots for basically whatever I feel like. leech sig+mantra of inscriptions was what I ran last time but they spend too much time casting to be able to intterupt effectively.

blue.rellik · Jul 13, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Aura of the Lich rapes every other MM elite. Only Order of Undeath even comes close but that's just my opinion

Flesh Golem is devilishly overrated, give me 10 easily sustainable minions over 10 minions that require me being careful with BotM. Not to mention that with AotL and Dark Bond, a mm can rival a 55 in tanking goodness

But if I had to pick either then Flesh Golem can work in most places (such as lvl 24 and down). Jagged bones is better but requires alot more micromanagement and is better on a hero (with their robotic skills)

Zodiak · Jul 18, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I set Olias or Master of Whispers as the follwing

Necromancer/Dervish
16 Death Magic
8 Earth Prayers
X Soul Reaping

Mind you I use a Superior Death and Superior Soul Reaping with no vigor rune (personal choice)

with Dark Bond under Blood, which requires little to no points in blood, it serves as a type or Minion Armor and Heroes are quite adept at keeping it up.

Since Dark Bond is an Enchantment, I take advantage of Mystic Regeneration which counts as an enchantment itself, giving the hero +6 health regen for 20 seconds, which is very cheap effective constant healing. Heroes are also quite adept at using it.

Another purpos of having lower health on a MM hero is the lower sacrifice cost from Blood of the Master, which with higher health can be a bugger if you like running two MM heroes in some places.

If Minions die too quickly in HM, take advantage of it, use Animate Bone Minion two get two weaker ones, pack Jagged Bones and then Death Nova for easier, faster minion bombs.

Another interesting thing to know is that if you like running two MMs in some places (like me, just fun lol) is bring Jagged Bones, Animate Bone Horror and Animate Shambling Horror.

Once you find yourself that one of your MMs has a few minions up (2-3) disable Animate Bone Horror. That way the second one will be able to get a few off. Once he has done the same, disable the second one as you did the first.

Because of the slight recharge on Shambling horror, with a few minions to pool from, Animate Shambling Horror and Jagged bones your two Minion Masters will not fight over corpses and you will be able to sustain them easier.

If for some reason your minions have taken big hits, re-enable Bone Horror untill your minion pool increases and redo the steps

Zodiak · Jul 18, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I just go with Mass Bleeding when you achieve 10-20 bleeder minions as described above

O Nuxtofulakas · Jul 19, 2007, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

Jagged Bones will sustain an MM army during battle twice as long as a normal MM army, if not even longer, plus spreading bleeding is fun :P. Mind you a HUMAN MM using Jagged Bones is quite useless, but heros use it very efficiently. In the end, JB>FG on a hero.

my 2 cents.
cheers.

/signed

From my POV Aura of the Lich is good if you run 2 mm which is not so common especially in HM.

I believe a MM without minions is ...a dead MM sooner or later no matter if you have AotL or not. Of course you can spam botm more often but personally i prefer a fresh, healthy brand new minion offered by JB. And heroes do it perfectly.

Snow Bunny · Jul 19, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Olias is rather reluctant to

A. Use JB.
B. Use botm.
C. Stop using Death nova

Ugh.

Brian the Gladiator · Jul 19, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Olias is rather reluctant to

A. Use JB.
B. Use botm.
C. Stop using Death nova

Ugh.

I noticed that too Snow Bunny. I found that if you do not bring Death Nova, the Minion Master AI will use JB more often. Also, if you put Heal Area on the MM bar, he will be reluctant to use BotM so, in conclusion:

~ do not take Death Nova when you have JB
~ do not take Heal Area if you have BotM

The build that I use is:

[skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Snow Bunny · Jul 19, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Hm...I rather like Aegis there. I'm almost done vanquishing...but I'd like to try that.

Zodiak · Jul 19, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Again with the known information on heroes, I make sure Jagged Bones is in my first skill slot just to make sure its used the most.

Although it is true that you will end up losing a few Minions if you bring Death Nova with Jagged bones, I find that the minion bombs are helpfull and the hero will manage to cat up with minions soon enough.

I still think that in combination with Dark Bond (the minion armor skill), with 8 in Earth Prayers, Mystic Regeneration is an incredibly effective self heal for 20 seconds instead of 10 seconds as some other spells do.

It IS viable to setup TWO Minion Master Heroes in MOST areas if you do the following as I mentioned

Carry

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill]

let either of your MMs get 2 or 3 minions of any kind, disable Animate Bone Horror. The Do the same with the second.

With two Jagged Bones and Shambling horrors alone, you can successfully create and sustain 20 Jagged Horrors. If your minions get AOEd, re-enable Animate Bone Horror and get a few more.

Disabling Animate Bone Horror serves two purposes. 1 it prevents the heroes of fighting over the corpses, as most likely one's animate shambling horror will be down while the other is creating one. 2 it serves the purpose of having all of your minions cause bleeding as a secondary effect.