Curse

kupp · Sep 07, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalanRoarer

Yes. I'd be interested to see why you think that warriors are the best DPS class in PvE. ( I don't care for PvP ).

Churning out 100+ damage hits per second on a single target is one of them (dragon slash + FGJ, you'll be averaging 3 hits every 2 seconds). The damage dealt in melee (on all classes, warrior it's the hardest though) outshines the damage done by casters in any you look at it, from a constant damage spam and the lack of long cooldown abilities.I could write quite a long paragraph about it, but this is well known fact, hope you're not gonna say otherwise. And I know necros with MoP can deal a lot more, but that falls under the 'special circunstances' category, not the average gameplay.

But apparently you think otherwise, care to explain what/why deals more dps?

edit: I re-read the OP and yes, Necros deal a shitload of damage. But having a necro as my 'second main' and having the Legendary Guardian title on it, I can tell you it won't as much as a warrior, in this case mainly due to how much you have to rely on AI to cooperate towards their own death. Scatter is one hell of a pain and the moment MoP is used, it triggers. Same for SS. You can get off a few hits on a few mobs but they'll quickly move away and break your damage entirely. They're extremely useful as utilities and actual support, but for pure damage on their own, I find them very unreliable. At least with a warrior the moment you jump in, you're breaking faces and you control the battle and the enemy. For example, having vanquished Elona, Cantha and half of Tyria with an Earthshaker build, the damage dealt was immense not because of raw numbers, but because I kept the mobs under control on the same spot until they were dead. Without it, they'd just scatter and break my momentum. A necromancer doesn't have this ability despite having great potential in damage, potential that's dependent on circustances you usually cannot control. With the warrior, you can. And like I mentioned, with the ability to spam skills a lot faster than other classes, you're constantly dealing heavy damage on the enemy non-stop.

Desert Rose · Sep 07, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Guild Wars was originally designed as a PvP game, so many mechanics of other RPGs wouldn't work; i.e. what would be the use of an oldschool tank in PvP? Any at least decent player would simply ignore the tank and go straight for the healers, making the tank useless.
Therefor ANet made another approch than the Tank/Nuker/Healer roles in many other RPGs; instead, the melee fighters (often called physicals) were made the main damage dealers, casters support their own physicals or hamper the opposed ones. But your enemies are still hard hitting, so you still need something to "tank" the damage; in GW, the ability to "tank" was given to the healer class (monk) in form of short living buffs (Protection Prayers) that can increase the durability of an ally up and sometimes even beyond the durability of "tanks" in traditonal RPGs.

Now that the small introduction is over lets go over your questions:
1.) In GW you get max level and max equipment very, very quickly compared to WoW; from there it depends on your ability to learn. If you are quick learner you can catch up with the top PvElers in a matter of weeks, for PvP on a high level it will be far longer.
2.) As explained above the best choice for a damage dealer is a physical (warrior, assassin, dervish, and to a lesser degree ranger and paragon) is the best choice; in some cases, like i.e. the already mentioned Necromancer with his Mark of Pain, some casters can deal an incredible amount of damage, but that's only possible in special team builds. For overall good damage choose a phsical.
Tanking in GW is only possible because of flaws in the in comparison to other RPGs still very good AI, and it's only worth the hassle in endgame content speedclear runs. The best tanking classes are the assassin (Shadow Form) and ele (Obsidian Flesh), but both classes need a highly specialized build and team to function properly. The best overall "tank" is the warrior simply because he has the highest natural armor rating.

kanuks · Sep 07, 2010, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Where is the big damage coming from for a necro aside from mop? Can anyone enlighten me on this? I mean evas + mop is nice but you need the foes to be balled up. To do that you need either a tank or at least someone able to bodyblock/ball foes up. Imo warriors are way better dps machine than necros. Let's not even talk about SS which is imo a terrible skill.

TalanRoarer · Sep 07, 2010, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

The damage dealt in melee (on all classes, warrior it's the hardest though) outshines the damage done by casters in any you look at it, from a constant damage spam and the lack of long cooldown abilities.I could write quite a long paragraph about it, but this is well known fact, hope you're not gonna say otherwise.

I don't deny that, my favourite teambuild is Physway. But I only asked you about your comment about Warriors being the highest DPS in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

But apparently you think otherwise, care to explain what/why deals more dps?

Ok I found it (eventually).
WoTA Dagger Spammer would be my top DPS build.

My reasoning being that the Assassin will have better energy levels to be able to spam AScan/BuH on demand and shoot out some silly numbers.

Bandwagon · Sep 07, 2010, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowsanity

First of all, hello

.
Well im a hardcore World of Warcraft PVE player, but i got kinda bored recently as i've done basically anything possible in this game already.
I've been waiting to play GW for a long time and now ill probably be finally starting.
Ill be buying Classic, Factions and Nightfall.
I got "two" questions.
1) Is it still worth to start playing at this time? I've read that GW2 is on it's way and that i'd need around a year or so to get to the "acceptable" skill of a player.
2) I play on WoW as a retribution paladin who like to mainly DPS(do damage) and to Tank, so as i've read there's many classes that can tank, right? I tough the warrior of GW would be similar to a paladin in WoW. If not, what class is decent at damage dealing(that a good player can put on more damage than people do on pure damage classes) and good at tanking?
Healing classes is out of question. I don't like making people stay alive by healing em.

1) Yes it is, especially if you want to play something different than the WoW
2) In GW, except for certain team builds and comps, there is usually 2 healers (backliners) and 6 "DPS" in an 8 man group, there are exceptions but that is the general jiist of it.

I would consider looking at the guild wiki and checking out the articles they have for each profession then try out said professions (if you bought Proph Factions and NF then you have 8 character slots) that interest you.

After you get to level 20 (max level) and progress through the game give PvX wiki a visit and check out some of their builds afterward (or just make builds by yourself). Focus on what makes them powerful instead of ctrl+C'ing the builds so you understand what the overall community feels what the top damage dealer / useful build is for that profession.

Do not roll a Paragon as your main character if you like variety in your primary PvE profession, at the moment there is only one build that they truly excel at (and everything else is crap compared to what others can achieve).

You played a Ret paladin in WoW, and probably other classes, when designing your builds try not to overextend your skills, a warrior for example does not need self heals in PvE, they should be focusing on killing stuff (when grouped with others), same with a necromancer, elementalist, assassin, dervish yada yada. In WoW you can use all abilities available to your spec, this is not possible in GW.

Try and join a guild, you won't expect much competent pug activity in a 5 year old Free to Play game since most of the population has already done that content and has learned they can do it faster and just as effectively if they do not waste their time waiting for pugs. If you do not like this, you may not enjoy the game at later levels.

luwe80 · Sep 08, 2010, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I think a big difference and in a good way is that in GW you can have a max level toon, with max weapons in like a week or two. You probably won't have most skills but you'll get the gist of that class. Worst case you find out you don't like that class you can just make another toon and in a week or so have him at max level.

Lowsanity · Sep 08, 2010, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon

1) Yes it is, especially if you want to play something different than the WoW
2) In GW, except for certain team builds and comps, there is usually 2 healers (backliners) and 6 "DPS" in an 8 man group, there are exceptions but that is the general jiist of it.

I would consider looking at the guild wiki and checking out the articles they have for each profession then try out said professions (if you bought Proph Factions and NF then you have 8 character slots) that interest you.

After you get to level 20 (max level) and progress through the game give PvX wiki a visit and check out some of their builds afterward (or just make builds by yourself). Focus on what makes them powerful instead of ctrl+C'ing the builds so you understand what the overall community feels what the top damage dealer / useful build is for that profession.

Do not roll a Paragon as your main character if you like variety in your primary PvE profession, at the moment there is only one build that they truly excel at (and everything else is crap compared to what others can achieve).

You played a Ret paladin in WoW, and probably other classes, when designing your builds try not to overextend your skills, a warrior for example does not need self heals in PvE, they should be focusing on killing stuff (when grouped with others), same with a necromancer, elementalist, assassin, dervish yada yada. In WoW you can use all abilities available to your spec, this is not possible in GW.

Try and join a guild, you won't expect much competent pug activity in a 5 year old Free to Play game since most of the population has already done that content and has learned they can do it faster and just as effectively if they do not waste their time waiting for pugs. If you do not like this, you may not enjoy the game at later levels.

Thanks for the answer, Bandwagon. I've just bought GW and all xpacs, going to start testing classes tomorrow. I guess pugs are shit in all games lol, i usually avoid doing anything with pugs as they're 99% clueless on what they are doing.
Well, i guess i already found on what ill be probably playing. Thank you all who posted here to help me get some understanding of the game and make my choice on class to roll

Cuilan · Sep 08, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

Elementalist Is a DPS class in PvE but only until you reach Hard Mode. In HM you are reduced to tank or support more, becouse the classic healer class Monk can outshine your damage at this part (You think im kidding? Monks can smite with armor ignoring holy dmg, while fire/cold/earth/air are effected by armor which is much more in HM).

Lol, no. I'd take an elementalist any day over a smite monk. Just because damage is lowered, it doesn't automatically make it worse than something that doesn't.

Oblivious Moose · Sep 08, 2010, 10:36 PM // 22:36

@ OP(keeping pve in mind as the main focus, most of this does apply to pvp, but there is a huge strategy difference):Theres alot to choosing your class. and all i've seen here so far is arguements over the popular pve builds on here. (bar of 8 skills)

What needs to be mentioned is that every class can use every skill in the game, given the equipped secondary class. And the only other differences is the equipable armor.
i.e. monks cannot equip armor with a base of 80 AL. but that of 60 AL(armor location) only. the mods on the armor, which can be tweaked is something you need to pay attention to. i.e. the base AL 60 is for casters. monnecromancers ect...(mainly backline toons) and increases to 70AL, and 80AL from midline toons, to frontline toons. with that being said, a warrior with a base of 80AL, can equip an armor mod, giving him an additional 20AL vs damage specific types. i.e. physical, earth ect....

Oh, i almost forgot. for tanking purposes.(not really tanking but the ability to take more damage) 40AL is the equivelnt of negating HALF of the incoming damage (assuming its not type specific) basically saying a monk with 60AL, takes twice as much damage as a warrior with 100AL. (since "tanking" is one of your concerns)

Also any class can equip and use any weapon/offand combination from any class. but the effectiveness of this depends on the stat arrangement, and stats on the weapons/offhands themselves. you WILL see alot of casters, espically monks running around with shields and martial weapons, But more often than not, its specifally a defensive thing, rather than actually trying to kill someone with the weapon. Same thing goes for activating spells, some(stressing SOME) of them require 3+ atb(attribute) points in order to make the skill not fail 50% of the time.

Remember, that just equipping the weapon doesnt make it work well. You must spend the attribute points into the mastery for the weapon in order for it to deal normal damage, and be effective, Thus limiting the left-over attribute points to spend to make the rest of your build effective.(since dps is a concern for you)

Also, spending time looking at skills, and howto obtain them will dramatically make your early game better, instead of being stuck with few, crap-tastic skills which hardly synergize. head straight for the better, and/or useful skills.

If you want a rundown on the top notch, most popular builds. ask around, or visit this dreadful website.... pvx.wikia.com search around, and just try different builds out. you will find alot of good and crappy builds, each person has their own opinion on what build is best. so its best to not argue with an opinion, and look for yourself.

and in time of playing the game, hopefully you will be creating your own unique builds, and making them fun and/or effective.

the gameplay mechanics are different, and it would waste my breath explaining it, best to go out, do the tutorial missions/quests "noob land" and everything will make sense in time. feel free to go to any outpost and ask simple questions, more often than not you'll run into someone that will help (this is true as of 2 years ago[(before i stopped playing with real people for pve)as pvp is normally my main focus].

Hope this spiel isnt too long for ya.... lol....

well, now you see a good portion of the pre-gaming here. hopefully its enough for ya to make an informed decidion. go ot kill some charr and have a ball! :P

thor thunder · Sep 09, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

My opinion is start in NF better rewards and story, also the endgame stuff is nice.
Be a derv or para

a para is like a long range warrior great skill animations

a derv is a warrior with a scyth there great fun and the weapons hit multiple target's

those classes will help you end game but also arnt boring to play.

Slasher of Darkness · Sep 10, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

snip...

...But apparently you think otherwise, care to explain what/why deals more dps?

*cough* Assassins say "HAII." JS FF DB + WotA/another elite CAN and WILL do more damage, your warrior will do 100+ every hit with DSlash only with AScan and SoH. Believe me, I've tried. Sins do more and faster with the same buffs. Then we got scythe sins, they can do 3x100-200+ hits in 1 second in optimal circumstances. Sins are currently the strongest melee. And if you're gonna go at it like "SINS ARE SQUISHY AND DIIE TOO FASTT!!11!" then, critical agility should be on a sins bar, which gives you +25 armor with max rank, that's 70+25, then we can add "IaU" onto the WotA bar, if we get rid of "SY!", takes it even higher. Besides, it doesn't matter, PS is your friend in HM and equals it all out.

kanuks · Sep 10, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

*cough* Assassins say "HAII." JS FF DB + WotA/another elite CAN and WILL do more damage, your warrior will do 100+ every hit with DSlash only with AScan and SoH. Believe me, I've tried. Sins do more and faster with the same buffs. Then we got scythe sins, they can do 3x100-200+ hits in 1 second in optimal circumstances. Sins are currently the strongest melee. And if you're gonna go at it like "SINS ARE SQUISHY AND DIIE TOO FASTT!!11!" then, critical agility should be on a sins bar, which gives you +25 armor with max rank, that's 70+25, then we can add "IaU" onto the WotA bar, if we get rid of "SY!", takes it even higher. Besides, it doesn't matter, PS is your friend in HM and equals it all out.

100b warriors deals more damage against huge mobs and theyre better at balling foes (Unless the sin uses SF which means barely any damage). And yes warriors are more durable. They have a base armor of 116 (sentinel's insignia + shield) and don't rely on enchantments (end game areas have plenty of enchantments stripping). To achieve this amount of durability, you need crit agility + IaU which takes 2 PVE skills slot so that leaves you with AS as your only offensive PVE slot... Its always circumstantial which of the 2 classes is better when it comes to DPS. Against not so crowded mobs, sins are obviously better. Against huge mobs and with some bodyblocking skills, warriors are better.

Oblivious Moose · Sep 11, 2010, 05:08 AM // 05:08

I would like to see some people do the math on which class with their best builds, and mob setup will actually do the most dps. until that happens, the dps argument on warrior vs assassin seems extremely futile. it would only take one skill update to completely change which class/build is "best" at dps. as we all know, this will happen again.

imo, choosing a class shouldn't be based on "what is the best(currently)" but rather what you enjoy playing the most, and if it has a good synergy with the method at which you play the game.

as we all know, you can never achieve greatness by following someone else's footsteps, you'll always be one step behind them.

Bandwagon · Sep 13, 2010, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivious Moose

imo, choosing a class shouldn't be based on "what is the best(currently)" but rather what you enjoy playing the most, and if it has a good synergy with the method at which you play the game.

This x10,000.

I like beastmastery rangers and dervishes which are both as of September 12 sub par to Critscythe (a self proficient build capable of delivering big numbers) in terms of damage. If I was given the option to change these characters to primary A/ I wouldn't because I like those playstyles.

BuddyLeeX · Sep 22, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

This is a very intriguing post to me considering I was in a similar position with GW PvP and moved onto WoW only to do everything possible PvE wise with my ret pally including obtaining a shadowmourne and completing ICC25 12/12 HM's months ago and decided to come back to GW because WoW officially ended.

So I completely understand where you are coming from, I've experienced the same thing, and having played both games avidly I would have to say stick with a melee class. My first class was a warrior and it's still one of my favorite classes, and very similar to what you are used to in wow. If you had played a DK I would have suggested an assassin. Either are good choices, and actually any main class can be a melee class with a secondary profession. It reminds me of the old bunny thumper R/W builds in pvp...

My advice is to not expect the PvE level of content that you are used to with WoW. However, PvP is a different matter as WoW's mainstream pvp (arenas) is run by meta builds similar to GW PvE which you will encounter a lot when you get to that point. You don't have as much of this problem with GW...at least from my experience with just HA/HoH and GvG YEARS ago (like...almost 5 years ago jeez).

Daft Shifty · Sep 25, 2010, 05:20 AM // 05:20

In Guild Wars, there is no tanking as seen in WoW. In most team circumstances (99% of the game) You have frontline, midline, backline. Not 1 tank 3 dps 1 heals.

saint666 · Sep 25, 2010, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

100b warriors deals more damage against huge mobs and theyre better at balling foes (Unless the sin uses SF which means barely any damage). And yes warriors are more durable. They have a base armor of 116 (sentinel's insignia + shield) and don't rely on enchantments (end game areas have plenty of enchantments stripping). To achieve this amount of durability, you need crit agility + IaU which takes 2 PVE skills slot so that leaves you with AS as your only offensive PVE slot... Its always circumstantial which of the 2 classes is better when it comes to DPS. Against not so crowded mobs, sins are obviously better. Against huge mobs and with some bodyblocking skills, warriors are better.

100b is highly dependent on a tank, usually a SF tank, balling enemies up and a MoP nuker, it's a combined effort from 3 classes, not the warrior's alone. With that said, warriors are sturdier, it makes the job for other melees easier with one around pulling aggro.

Lishy · Sep 25, 2010, 11:58 AM // 11:58

If you cannot decide what to be, just be a warrior.
They can:
- Synergize with heroes better than any other profession, due to the synergy with melee fighters.
- Utilize the most variety of weapons in the game, and efficiently! (Swords, axes, hammers, daggers, scythes, spears).
- Highest armor.
- A wide array and variety of awesome builds you can use.
- They have the most armor choices to choose from.
- A number of useful roles in High-End PvE (Such as 100b).

The warrior is pretty much the canon role for the player anyways. I mean, the warrior is on the cover of the original game!