Curse

N1ghtstalker · Jul 13, 2011, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Threadtitle says it all

Are heroes viable enough for dealing with the new afflicted mobs in HM or will we be forced to assemble full teams of people with top of the notch meta builds and PvE skills?

wilebill · Jul 13, 2011, 11:06 PM // 23:06

My heroes seem to work.

Skyy High · Jul 13, 2011, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Look around on related threads, there are plenty of screenshots of people getting through these quests in HM with heroes.

MArcSinus · Jul 14, 2011, 12:48 AM // 00:48

They do the trick.

Xenomortis · Jul 14, 2011, 12:50 AM // 00:50

These afflicted aren't significantly harder than anything we've faced before.
A few of the quests put us into difficult situations, but typically it's only numbers that give rise to difficulty. I think there's something of a bias against melee professions though.

Venganza · Jul 14, 2011, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Some quests are hard in HM with heroes (Minister Cho's one for example).

I struggled with this in HM, yet did it with a human team and no one died, nor took any damage at all really (SoS/ST/MM/Monk)

Kunder · Jul 19, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

These afflicted aren't significantly harder than anything we've faced before.
A few of the quests put us into difficult situations, but typically it's only numbers that give rise to difficulty. I think there's something of a bias against melee professions though.

If you have melee, you have SY, so I would certainly disagree. All you have to do is preprot yourself while you make the party invincible and nothing save massive enemy numbers can take you down. You might have to position yourself somewhat intelligently or take down targets in a semi-efficient order to keep enchants up, but that is hardly a 'bias'.

Xenomortis · Jul 19, 2011, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

If you have melee, you have SY, so I would certainly disagree. All you have to do is preprot yourself while you make the party invincible and nothing save massive enemy numbers can take you down. You might have to position yourself somewhat intelligently or take down targets in a semi-efficient order to keep enchants up, but that is hardly a 'bias'.

They have better anti-phys stuff than they have anti-caster and the Soul Explosions don't matter at all for a caster. Ever since the Ritualist update, SY has been less important, moreso since the 7 hero update. With spirit heroes, I feel SY is just not important. In fact, I find that unless the player wants to massively abuse the AI via more precise aggro control (body blocking, balling, etc) then SY more allows him to function without worrying too much about the state of his heroes.
Of course, physicals still dominate for damage and the best results are probably going to come from a melee phys, but I find caster primaries just have an easier time of it; at least for the Necromancer and Mesmer.
It is quite possible (and arguably probable) that I'm biased though; I've spent over half my playtime on my Necro. Maybe I just play a physical completely wrong (although I do enjoy success on my Assassin).

Jeydra · Jul 20, 2011, 03:58 AM // 03:58

The WoC HM quests are (largely) on par with Slaver's HM in difficulty; if you can do Slaver's with heroes - and though Slaver's is on the more difficult end of PvE, it is perfectly doable with heroes for experienced players - you can do WoC with heroes too.

Kunder · Jul 20, 2011, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

They have better anti-phys stuff than they have anti-caster and the Soul Explosions don't matter at all for a caster. Ever since the Ritualist update, SY has been less important, moreso since the 7 hero update. With spirit heroes, I feel SY is just not important. In fact, I find that unless the player wants to massively abuse the AI via more precise aggro control (body blocking, balling, etc) then SY more allows him to function without worrying too much about the state of his heroes.
Of course, physicals still dominate for damage and the best results are probably going to come from a melee phys, but I find caster primaries just have an easier time of it; at least for the Necromancer and Mesmer.
It is quite possible (and arguably probable) that I'm biased though; I've spent over half my playtime on my Necro. Maybe I just play a physical completely wrong (although I do enjoy success on my Assassin).

The afflicted don't have anything I would call anti physical except for some enchant stripping annoyingness (things like empathy and dulled weapon don't count, -15 damage on my base attacks doesn't matter when you aren't relying on base weapon damage to kill groups).

Great thing about SY is that it frees up the ST rit slot, rits aren't exactly underpowered in their offensive roles and even if you don't want a 2nd offensive rit you can just change Razah over to a Mesmer and raep moar. Anyone who thinks they have a build that can't be improved by a third Mesmer is probably horribly wrong.

I can't honestly see a caster heavy group being strong/offensive enough to reliably beat Tracking the Corruption without the lame easy mode camping of corners. Granted, Tracking isn't an anti-afflicted quest, but I'm sure this thread is really about WoC enemies in general and Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood pose no special counters more deadly than the afflicted while they also lack any death explosions to annoy you with.

I may be biased considering that the melee class I used was Derv, though. On the other hand the other melee professions aren't THAT much weaker. I didn't even use SY throughout almost all of HM WoC because IMO it just wasn't needed and Death's Charge let me kill groups faster.

Xenomortis · Jul 20, 2011, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

The WoC HM quests are (largely) on par with Slaver's HM in difficulty; if you can do Slaver's with heroes - and though Slaver's is on the more difficult end of PvE, it is perfectly doable with heroes for experienced players - you can do WoC with heroes too.

I honestly consider SE to be easier...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The afflicted don't have anything I would call anti physical except for some enchant stripping annoyingness (things like empathy and dulled weapon don't count, -15 damage on my base attacks doesn't matter when you aren't relying on base weapon damage to kill groups).

Empathy or Visions of Regret can do a lot of damage to an Assassin rapidly if they get cocky or don't notice. Similarly the Afflicted stack a lot of blocking skills (this would be pretty unpleasant if it weren't for the new Asuran Scan, although right now it doesn't mean much) and Dulled Weapon is painful for an Assassin (but I admit, I've never noticed this get cast on me). The enchantment removals tend to annoy melee more than most; Eles find their Attunements missing an annoyance and trying to keep people alive as a Monk is hard when your prots keep disappearing though.
Of course, the big thing hurting melee physicals are the Soul Explosions; as a caster I didn't really notice them but they are something I have to be aware of as a melee profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

I can't honestly see a caster heavy group being strong/offensive enough to reliably beat Tracking the Corruption without the lame easy mode camping of corners. Granted, Tracking isn't an anti-afflicted quest, but I'm sure this thread is really about WoC enemies in general and Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood pose no special counters more deadly than the afflicted while they also lack any death explosions to annoy you with.

Maybe not; getting attacked on two sides is going to be painful and unless you pack enough firepower to quickly wipe one incoming side then you're very much liable to collapse. Funneling all the groups to one side helps a lot.
It may be possible if you put your back to any corner, without funneling them (say both spawns immediately rushed you without one going round the central area).
The Am Fah and Jade are less threatening; their bars, in a vacuum, are generally not as scary, they have less blocking although they do have much better healing and arguably more anti-physical stuff (Faintheartedness, Soothing Images). However they are more numerous and that's really the main source of difficulty when dealing with them.