Curse

The Titan · May 24, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Am i the only Derv out there that uses this?

Every other Derv I've met is using Baltha or Reaper's sweep (Yes i have it but not a fan, offnote does it reset swing timer?)

79 Seconds deal +44 damage when using skills

44 More damage? And nobody realizes how good that is?

I was in FOW tonight and smacked on Lyssa i went up to a Shadow monk and pretty much 5 shotted him in the face, I got a 124 mystic sweep (He was in a group) Then a 126 ermites attack followed off by a 156 chilling victory with another 57 cold damage on top of that, not lethal enough? He was in a group so all that damage got spread ed to the 3 adjacent ally's around him.

I'd really love to see more Derv's using this Avatar as i personally think it is very underrated, I have all 5 Avatar's and i use them all but Lyssa more then others, was in D'alesso seaboard on HM tonight, I took Baltha with me and was tearing the place up, could 4-5 shot anybody that came into contact with me, now regarding that i do double damage to undead while in Baltha, I decided to take this for another run using Lyssa this time (We dropped the pot, i blame Paragorns) And i was dealing (If not more) the same amount of damage?

If you really need some more proof i suppose i can run some numbers on some hard modes I'll be doing laters

¬ Scythe Of The Titan.

Edit: Oh i also forgot to ad, My build is very energy heavy and only use Chilling victory when in a big group (Along with Ermites attack) the +20 Energy from Lyssa is a life save.

FOW: 2 Ablyssa coming at you, Pop Lyssa Zealous renewal + Heart of fury + Mystic regen = 35 Energy (Including the 5 from Lyssa) of course you'd have the choice of popping Renewal when in the group for the damage.

Freneticweasel · May 24, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I don't think Avatar of Lyssa is underrated at all, it's very useful in PvE. I think that in HM its bonus is slightly harder to trigger because of the massive decrease of activation and casting times for spells and skills. Still a very attractive skill

Cebe · May 24, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

I like Avatar of Lyssa in PvE and find it very useful also. The reason people like Balthazar is because they're shallow and think "ZOMG IT GOEZ FASTA!", most Dervishes I've played with don't seem to gain the benefits of the +40 armor from Balthazar and die just as fast as they would if they used another elite. Grenth seems a bit "meh" to me, Melandru is nice in places like the echivold forest and Dwayna is generally ok. Lyssa is my favourite, since it allows you to take more expensive enchantments, like Heart of Fury and Zealous Renewal AND Heart of Holy Flame. I like it and it hits for a stunning amount when someone is using a skill.

Pwny Ride · May 24, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Yes, it is under-rated. Everything that has so far spawned from the god lyssa has been under-rated. Why break tradition?

Sophitia Leafblade · May 24, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Personally i use this one far more than the other Avatars, i love it. Its a sure fire way of taking out casters fast. but i have to agree it sticks with the trend everything from Lyssa is underrated (mesmers and assassins)

Mr. G · May 24, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

its second in my list

1. Dwayana (uber tanking)
2. Lyssa (uber damage)
3. Balthazar (really not a fan)
4. Melendru (Rather meh comnpared to the others...woo more health...)
5. Grenth (seriously...WT?)

The Titan · May 24, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

its second in my list

1. Dwayana (uber tanking)
2. Lyssa (uber damage)
3. Balthazar (really not a fan)
4. Melendru (Rather meh comnpared to the others...woo more health...)
5. Grenth (seriously...WT?)

I don't understand why Dwayna is so good, care to explain?

Lyssa RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO yeah, It's great.

Balthazar is fine for Undead missions, nothing else

Melendru seem's alot better for tanking as you can get rid of all effects and get 100+ more HP altho it takes 25 energy

Grenth, hell i RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing love this, It's so deadly in pvp as it removes heal spells and you will hit harder then instant cast spells, It can also be alright in pve but the 40 seconds sucks balls.

Servant of Kali · May 24, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I love Lyssa in RA, it's quite fun. Never tried in PvE yet because i need daggers. And mmm hardmode is bad for Lyssa. HM favors massively a very narrow set of skills (SS empathy and other hexes) and discourages direct dmg (ele, warrior etc) as well as interrupts and alike. Not to mention, monsters spamming 25e spells like there's no tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Titan

I don't understand why Dwayna is so good, care to explain?

Uh, I've argumented it tons of times already in other threads.

To put it in short, Dwayna is IMO the best avatar in most game areas. It has an awesome synergy with Prot Prayers (spamming RoF and prot spirit, all u need), which makes you semi-invincible. And that's even without hex removal. Dwayna beats Balthazar so easily, in 99% areas, and Balthazar is perhaps better in 1% of em. And, you still have nice dmg with Chilling + Crippling/Victorious + HoF. What i mean to say, in PvE for instance you will also do more dmg than a warrior, and have more defense than a warrior. In 99% of game areas, those 1% of areas are artifically blatantly enchant-unfriendly and favor certain classes, just as "50% chance to miss" kills Assassins in some elite areas (because ANet has noob level designers).

That doesnt say Dwayna is the only avatar which should be used. Lyssa and Melandru are also fun. Grenth is not PvE avatar and considering no one uses it in PvP anymore, it's not PvP skill either. Balthazar is used for looks, not for stats. That's pretty much it.

btw, when i say Dwayna is good, i have in mind a typical PvE/RA scenario. Im not talking about top10 GvG guild making a PvE team. Such organized teams might consider Dwayna good, or just use an all-offense build (like Lyssa), while monks take care of proting and healing.

Dwayna is very fun in high end areas (but not areas designed by ANet noobs) like last Nightfall missions, FoW, and alike, because prot spirits takes care of most dmg, and RoF negates the rest. Warrior might have higher armor but it's really irrelevant. Stripping enchants is not a huge problem in most areas, because you can easily re-apply them. Of course, not in areas where monsters have 999 energy and cast Lingering Curse every 1/2 sec.

If you want to try it in practice, here's my Juggernaut build, see how it goes. If you dont like it, it's all fine, just go with another avatar. I always stress that the most important thing in a game is fun, and even if something is good, it might not be fun and therefore it's meh.

RoF
Prot spirit
Crippling Sweep
Chilling Victory
HoF
Dwayna
Mending Touch
Rez/Pious Haste

15m, 8 prot p, rest in scythe (2 sup runes is OK as well)
Armor: none. Seriously, you can finish Nightfall with starter armor.
20% enchant scythe, sundering or zealous

The point being is, you cant take Dwayna and put 7 other random skills, and complain that avatar is bad. A lot of Dervish skills depend on other skills. Zealous Vow isnt much by itself, but if u put Protectors strike and those 3/4sec attacks on it, along with i dunno, Watch Yourself spam etc, it's quite fun.

Coloneh · May 24, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

reapers is so much better than avatars

Marverick · May 25, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Lyssa is good in RA where idiots cast a Res Sig while you attack them. Dismember -> Mystic Sweep -> Eremite's Attack -> Protector's Strike does 400 damage in <2 seconds, including Deep Wound. There's also a version with Daggers but I prefer Spirit's Strenght with daggers. In PvE it's not that great because mobs don't have many skills on their skillbar.

Balthazar is just useless; Heart of Holy Flame serves the undead purpose fine.

Dwayna is good in RA where Monks are crappy (most of the time) and you need self heal. It also rips through stacks and hordes of necro hexes in a few seconds. In other places you have Divert Hexes and stuff in 3-monk backlines, which makes it not as good.

I use Reaper's Sweep most of the time too, though. Reaper's -> Chilling = instant kill on anything below 50%

Cathode_Reborn · May 25, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Uh, I've argumented it tons of times already in other threads.

To put it in short, Dwayna is IMO the best avatar in most game areas. It has an awesome synergy with Prot Prayers (spamming RoF and prot spirit, all u need), which makes you semi-invincible. And that's even without hex removal. Dwayna beats Balthazar so easily, in 99% areas, and Balthazar is perhaps better in 1% of em. And, you still have nice dmg with Chilling + Crippling/Victorious + HoF. What i mean to say, in PvE for instance you will also do more dmg than a warrior, and have more defense than a warrior. In 99% of game areas, those 1% of areas are artifically blatantly enchant-unfriendly and favor certain classes, just as "50% chance to miss" kills Assassins in some elite areas (because ANet has noob level designers).

........

btw, when i say Dwayna is good, i have in mind a typical PvE/RA scenario. Im not talking about top10 GvG guild making a PvE team. Such organized teams might consider Dwayna good, or just use an all-offense build (like Lyssa), while monks take care of proting and healing.

In a typical PvE scenario, I have one hero monk and 2 hench monks that keep the party alive very well.... much better than the average pug monk would. I henched all of Nightfall without using any selfheals (except when I fought shiro). For pve, Dwayna and Balthazar both are no good. Monks are there for a reason. I run the complete opposite of the build you posted....All offense, I use Avatar of Lyssa and wreak havoc, doing 100-150 + dmg to margonites and torment creatures. A player on the team that doesn't do much besides heal themself isn't very useful.

As for Lyssa being underrated, the reason is probably because a majority of pve players who play melee classes seem to think that they need to fill half their skillbar with selfheals. Of course you'd have to do that if the team monks were that bad, but assuming you have at least 2-3 pro monks on the team, the rest of the party can get away with no self healing and dedicate their skillbar to killing stuff fast, which is what will get you through the mission. Lyssa is the only avatar I'd use for pve.

Servant of Kali · May 25, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

In a typical PvE scenario, I have one hero monk and 2 hench monks that keep the party alive very well.... much better than the average pug monk would.

I took that into account didnt i?
Dwayna and Lyssa are both awesome in PvE, they are for different playstyles though.

Now that you mentioned it once more, i actually realized one thing - i only used Dwayna in PUG teams (yes sometimes pugs can be fun too). And i have to say it's awesome there, by far the best Dervish PUG build i played.
When i use Heroes, i used to take either Melandru+Wearying build (before Wearying got nerfed), or in some areas Zealous Vow attack-skill spam for fun (without any selfheals). I wanted to try Lyssa but didnt have appropriate daggers.
btw i never play with 3 monks, and my heroes always have dmg setup. Sometimes i take Paragon henchie which heals a bit too.

Ishana · May 25, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

heart of fury, avatar of lyssa,rez sig .....5 x sin skills that kill fast with 2 x dual attack. (mix and have fun with it ur styles as long as it can chain up 5 time with blade of steel as end combo).

20 mysticism and 20 dagger.....with 20% enchant dagger handle...dont used a 15^50 but 15% enchanted incs. heart of fury lasted 20sec++

deal 125 dmg to a monk per hit with blade of steel or 80++dmg with horn of ox.

down side is hexed or blinded (as if BoA sin can remove Hex :P).....if u r not.....the monk while using skill....gg within...5sec...sometimes even before the activate of blade of steel.

hehehehehe heart of fury > tiger stance...but now...tend to used dwyana as my elite as it heal 54+HP and remove 1 hexes.

WarKaster · May 25, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

did i just miss something?

20 into mysticism and dagger mastery??? isn't that pretty much impossible?

nidus · May 25, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I think he means the points you put in

20=12

SleetDragon · Dec 18, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I don't find it underated personally I know more than 10 people in my guild alone including myself run Avatar of Lyssa on our dervs or derv hero's. I do agree however that for personal use I've always found Reaper's Sweep to be more beneficial to my skills set than the avatars. However,that being said it still is a rather impressive skillin certain situations. I exactly think that how well the Avatars perform is based on a matter of location and situation. So I don't believe any are underated. Just maybe used less often.

Darkside · Dec 18, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

I wouldn't say that Lyssa is underated...just not used much by Dervish's you pick up in PUG's. Most of the time when I see a Dervish go into it's Avatar animation it's Balthazar that seems to pop up...unfortunately. I think it's more of an education issue...The random dervish's just need to be shown what's good and what's not as good. Obviously, if you got them to try out Lyssa and they started seeing those 100+ damage spikes they would probably realize that Lyssa is one of the best avatars you can use.

~ Dan ~ · Dec 18, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

I think it's more of an education issue...The random dervish's just need to be shown what's good and what's not as good.

If only they would listen.
I was in AB the other day and a D/Mo joined our team. I told him to ping and as i expected, Balth + a load of earth prayers. I laughed and told him his build is shit, but he proceeded to say how i was wrong and that his build is amazing because he usually takes 0 damage!

Wonderful!

Bowstring Badass · Dec 18, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

I don't find it underated personally I know more than 10 people in my guild alone including myself run Avatar of Lyssa on our dervs or derv hero's. I do agree however that for personal use I've always found Reaper's Sweep to be more beneficial to my skills set than the avatars. However,that being said it still is a rather impressive skillin certain situations. I exactly think that how well the Avatars perform is based on a matter of location and situation. So I don't believe any are underated. Just maybe used less often.

Yay for bringing back dead threads....

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 18, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Topic necroing lol