Curse

Rexion · Dec 15, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I want to create a PvE necro. I wanted it to be Prophicies-only skills for the time being. I want to get through this game then start on the others and make builds with other campaign skills, aswell. It will be related to an SS. It won't do much physical damage, but do hexing.

Attributes:
Curses 12+1+3
Soul Reaping 12+1

[skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill]
Then a hard rez.

Any suggestions?

I'll use Awaken the Blood till I can get SoLS

Chthon · Dec 15, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Probably drop soul barbs. You're throwing around costly, long recharge, sticky hexes, not spammable ones like wastrel's worry.
Drop suffering. It's weak.
Desecrate is not fantastic, but it may be the best you can do for that role with Prophecies only.
Insidious parasite is OK for Prophecies-only, but it becomes an anti-combo once Reckless Haste is available, and Reckless Haste is far better.
DEFINITELY add Enfeebling Blood.
Although there is some argument as to whether it's worthwhile post-Prophecies (I personally am on the "not" side), there's no doubt that Arcane Echo is a big help for Prophecies-only SS builds.
I find Awaken the Blood boosting a well-placed SS or MoP to do far more damage than anything else you could add to your bar. Most folks around here seem disagree with me on that. Try it and decide for yourself.

Rexion · Dec 15, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

should i replace [skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] with [skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill] then?

Chthon · Dec 15, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

should i replace [skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] with [skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill] then?

Try it both ways and see which you like better.

Moloch Vein · Dec 15, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Your build as it stands now lacks a cover hex. Cover hexes are Good.

Use Parasitic Bond to replace either Barbs, Mark of Pain or Insidious Parasite. However as a "newbie" necromancer I'd really not want to drop Insidious. It does a great job making you stay alive.

Remember that Barbs and Mark will only help you if you run with physical henchmen.

Personally I'd drop Barbs. Yes, it's a wonderful spell, but it's more like a "kiss of death" on a single target. Pve is all about MOBS. With both SS, IP and MoP on your bar you'll have three echo-worthy spells for different situations.

And yes, I'm definitely in the "yes Arcane, no Awaken" camp. There are several reasons but more than anything, Arcane teaches you to play your role correctly and concentrate on the big bombs.

In a normal fight, especially in NM Prophecies, SS lasts for 21 seconds, which is enough to kill the target. Adding 4 extra damage (37->41) isn't worthwhile unless you're just going for Trash-Mowing Mindless Nuke (example would be the once very popular DoA LBfarm Veil SS nuker build, where I'd definitely bring it.)

Oh, and one thing - The build you have in your OP right now is fine. It'll work. I'm just being picky.

The Riven · Dec 15, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Add SolS as well? but yes basicly what moloch said. People always seem to think of arcane as a ss only spell, it can be used on anything. That build will work very well indeed as long as you bring phys dmg.

horseradish · Dec 15, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

SolS is a Nightfall only skill.

I would suggest a utility skill like Plague Sending. I's always useful to bring condition removal.

The Riven · Dec 15, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

SolS is a Nightfall only skill.

Sorry i should take more notice of my posts.
As a starter build, thats very good indeed, should take you through nearly everything with little need to change anything.

boogerboy72 · Dec 15, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

im not a fan of arcane echo and ss unless its special scenarios.

Tyla · Dec 15, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

i would consider using a minor curses rune, no heroes isnt good and -75 health is kinda bad

The Riven · Dec 15, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogerboy72

im not a fan of arcane echo and ss unless its special scenarios.

Do we realy need to enter into this again?

I wont post links as i think this point has been made fully and does not need reopening here.

Sethellington · Dec 16, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

parasitic out for signet of lost souls.

Fuzzy Taco · Dec 16, 2007, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

parasitic out for signet of lost souls.

Quote:

SolS is a Nightfall only skill.

bolded for emphasis.

as far as your build goes, i think everything i'd like to say has been said already. i agree with Moloch in that i like arcane echo, but no Awaken the Blood, but that's just me. throw in some of the skills suggested, play around with it, and see what you like / don't like.

horseradish · Dec 16, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?

Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy.

Superior my ass. :P

upier · Dec 16, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?

Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy.

Superior my ass. :P

Omg you are such a noob! And your ass in in NO way superior to mine!
You do like 6 more damage with a Sup rune!
Sure you are a squishy with paper-like armor.
And sure reducing ones heath will make all the baddies be attracted to you Michael Jacksons is to the maternity ward - BUT that's why we have monks for!
Ohh and because its teh "omg!1!wtf!1uber-pwnage-lolollo.ooloololololololl"-skill one needs to send it out as much as possible which means one MUST get the radiant insignia also!
Dude!11!

Chthon · Dec 16, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

To respond somewhat seriously to a not serious post,

1. If you must compare your asses, please do it somewhere else where I don't have to read about it.

2. The case for a sup rune on a SS build is much stronger than it is for other characters because of the way the SS (and MoP) mechanics work. For SS (and MoP), the extra damage from a higher attribute spec applies multiplicatively both per trigger and per adjacent foe.

Let me illustrate this with some examples: +4 damage per cast on a single-target skill, like say Flare, is laughable. Definitely not worth -75 max hp. +4 damage on an AoE spell, like say Desecrate Enchantments, is fundamentally better. Assuming 3 additional foes adjacent to the target, you'd be getting +16 damage per cast. That's probably still not worth the health penalty -- at least not with only a +4 -- but it's an entire order of magnitude ahead of the the single-target spell. Putting that +4 damage to a per-trigger AoE skill, like SS (or MoP), is fundamentally better yet again. Assuming 10 triggers for SS and the same 3 additional adjacent foes, the net result would be +160 damage per cast. Obviously, the inputs are going to vary, so +160 is only a ballpark figure, but the multiplicative nature of the output is what's important, and that's not going to change. With armor factored in, most skills can't even do 160 total damage per cast, much less do so much damage that +160 would be a trivial addition. For that much damage on every cast, the sup rune is worth the life penalty.

MoP has the same sort of multiplicative output. It arguably benefits even more from extra attribute points because a team with a minion master or minion bomber can realistically achieve a much bigger number of triggers.

Awaken the Blood gives the same +2 attribute benefit as a sup rune (+2 more than a minor's +1) for the cost of a skill slot and a point or two of soul reaping. That's a lot more expensive than -75 max hp, but I think its often worth it too.

Moloch Vein · Dec 16, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?

Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy.

Superior my ass. :P

I wouldn't want to include an SS necromancer on my team who blatantly refused to pull his own weight because he was more concerned with saving his skin. I'd pick one who actually knew how to play PvE and preferrably also knew how to position himself.

Next you'll probably advise a minion master to go with DM 12+1+1.

upier · Dec 16, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

All fine and dandy - but if we consider the +4 on 4 targets 10 times which brings us to the 160 in the example - that still means we have around 30 * 10 * 4 base damage. Which means one lost 75 hp to do 1360 damage instead of of 1200.
The damage output is insane either way - and that loss of hp didn't cause such an huge difference that would instantly justify it!
And on top of that - one also has the team doing additional damage.

It plays an issue when farming (when things need to die as fast as possible since time = money!) OR when playing though PvE LIKE one is farming - but for normal play - the difference isn't THAT insane!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I wouldn't want to include an SS necromancer on my team who blatantly refused to pull his own weight because he was more concerned with saving his skin. I'd pick one who actually knew how to play PvE and preferrably also knew how to position himself.

Next you'll probably advise a minion master to go with DM 12+1+1.

Personally I'd kick the sup cursing necro.
He's going to be one of the few squishes on my team - and I REALLY don't want him to be a bigger threat to himself and the party then he already is!

Moloch Vein · Dec 16, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Minor runes make an difference when playing PvP or when playing through PvE like one is playing PvP, but for normal PvE play, the deficit of 75 hit points on a debuffer/nuker isn't that insane.

I never understood people who brought sub-par builds and configurations that do little damage just to feel supposedly elite since "I'm playing just like the big PvP boys do!"

IIIPowerIII · Dec 16, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

No sup rune in pve... wow... My necro "Always" Used 2 sup rune since the beggining of GW, did i died more than any other? no... I usually run Sup cure and Sup Soul reaping on my necro. In NM you're hp doesnt matter, if you're playing HM, you can remove sup soul reaping and sue minor instead. But use your Sup Curse...