Curse

blue.rellik · Dec 08, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

You really believe that? That's a pretty bold statement man. Pardon me while I completely refute it.

Obsidian tanks don't need an IAS.
Other heavy defense tank builds don't need an IAS.
Running builds don't need an IAS.
Builds using 1/2 sec and 1 sec skill activation skills don't need an IAS.

The first two builds are incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly incredibly stupid. I seriously hating OB flesh warriors, only eles should do it since they can maintain ob flesh and even then no area in the game needs it.

Running is different and builds that use 1/2 and 1 sec activation times are gimmicky builds.

Quote:

Case in point:
[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill] + [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] + [skill]eviscerate[/skill] + [skill]agonizing chop[/skill] + [skill]critical chop[/skill]
Does not need an IAS. Pre-nerf, this actually was better then Evi+Exe+IAS

No it's not. A axe build without Executioner's is like major fail. I'm sorry to say. FGJ in serious kinda PvP is laughable really, in PvE it doesn't even matter.

Quote:

An IAS does didly for shouts or signet heavy builds.

Shout heavy? Paragons are the shouters not warriors and even then they should use Aggressive Refrain or even Soldier's Fury (AR is the best though) and signet heavy builds? Again gimmicks

Quote:

Sometimes an IAS doesn't increase your DPS that much, or your adrenaline gain. Sometimes, it's downright inferior to what is setup in a build and what you are fighting against. I'm talking damage builds in particular here.

How is hitting more only minor adrenaline gain and DPS?

Quote:

For example, fighting mobs that are spamming:
[skill]wild throw[/skill] or [skill]wild blow[/skill]

Because they're really common right?

Quote:

I was farming the cripple shield in NF with a 100 blades conjure build, and those dumb monkeys spam WT. There's no point to having any stance here, let alone an IAS. Second you put it up, blam, it's removed. You waist more adren/energy putting it back up then you do if you just pump out your attack skills normally.

100 blades? lol. A small area of teh game is not the rest of the game. List every area that has stance removal and I'll list at least 10 other areas without stance removal

Quote:

When I used to farm Ettins for runes with 100 Blades or cyclone/triple builds, again I didn't need an IAS. Just an elemental mod.

Farming? Farming uses specialized builds that would fail in a team build, why bring it up?

Quote:

Still think there is no good reason to never have an IAS?

Yes

iridescentfyre · Dec 08, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

(responding to no single statement in particular)

Even your half-assed attempt at an Eviscerate spike would do better with an IAS... which makes it seem like this discussion is more a matter of your personal pride and stubbornness than any relevant game mechanics. Good DPS under 33% IAS is better DPS. Math is not subject to interpretation, opinion, or playstyle preference.

Use it or don't. I don't care. I have absolutely zero interest in whether or not you bring an IAS skill on your warrior.

Steboy93 · Dec 08, 2007, 08:42 AM // 08:42

@OP-sorry but your build is bad, if you have Factions try this.

[skill=text]brawling headbutt[/skill][skill]dragon slash[/skill][skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]enduring harmony[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill] And a res

A Leprechaun · Dec 08, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

He doesnt have factions.

You dont have to take an IAS but there is no good reason not to take one, more damage and more adrenaline is what warriors are all about, you dont have to take one but that does not mean that its better not to.

~A Leprechaun~

Burst Cancel · Dec 08, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

OP needs to get Factions. DS + SY = lol. I don't really see the point of playing an sword warrior over an axe or hammer if you don't have DS. Cripslash is good, but in PvE it's kinda meh.

I can't believe you guys are taking IAS arguments seriously.

IS FGJ > IAS?!?
?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!11!!!?!?
?!?!?!111!?!?!?shift-1?!?

Girls go moist for IAS. If questions like the above give you anal pains, for christ's bloody sake just take both.

Krazax · Dec 10, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Aight, all this debate with me came over the whole idea that no build should be without an IAS. That it was stated as a universal truth that all warrior builds should have an IAS, so I naturally gave examples where this isn't the case, disproving this truth as false. There are a lot of cases where this is not the case as we saw. These builds are in PvP as well as PvE (which is the discussion platform table here).

Oh but low, my suggestions are 'gimmicks' or 'not inclusive of all areas and only a small portion' or wutever BS was said to me. Are we not playing Guildwars? Is this whole game, and almost every area, NOT gimmicky? Do you honestly want to sit there and tell me that these massive lists of skills and cross class configuration builds isn't something that's done on a regular basis in both PvE and PvP? Are you also going to tell me that there is NOT a strong number of skills in EVERY SINGLE CLASS that is NOT realistically usable with gimmicky builds as a priority? Do you also want to tell me that there are builds that work EVERYWHERE WITH EQUAL EFFECTIVENESS? This game isn't nicknamed 'buildwars' for nothing. It got that nickname because of the tendency of its' players to use zone specific, and encounter specific, builds for maximized effectiveness.

And so we got onto this whole show me a build that doesn't need an IAS and I'll conceded type point here. (I'm paraphrasing). So let me show one, it's very familiar and I'll explain why no IAS.

The OP's build came down to the suggested, with * marking my suggestions:

[skill]Sever Artery[/skill] or *[skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill]
[skill]Gash[/skill]

[skill]Final Thrust[/skill] or *[skill]Sun and Moon slash[/skill]
[skill]Hundred Blades[/skill]
[skill]Flail[/skill] or * (loose flail IAS and replace with an interrupt or something else like god forbid a ress)
[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]
[skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

My point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

I'm not even sure he needs an IAS with this kinda build. He's doing 100 Blades splash dmg with a deep wound combo. Might be better off with an interrupt in there.

Why did I say that? He has no IMS (Increased Movement Stance). If he uses Flail, anything can run away from him. Do you see "Save Yourselves!" in this build to pull complete aggro onto himself?

No, you don't. He said he doesn't have Factions.

Does shooting yourself in the foot sound like a frigging good idea to you? Well it doesn't to me, and that's what using Flail in this build does because of the -33% to movement it does. Flail is also like Frenzy in a lot of ways, you need cancel stance so you can reposition quickly unless you are running a "Save Yourselves!" full aggro type build. Flail is like self-cripple. Limping around as stuff moves away from you results in one thing = missed attacks. Time that went by where you could not attack because you weren't in range. So those 0.11 extra seconds are squandered while you try and catch up to your target(s).

Ok so, what if he used Frenzy instead?

He doesn't have a cancel stance for Frenzy.

There isn't even room for one. If he pulls out flail to replace it with Frenzy, where's his cancel? Anyone who uses Frenzy without a cancel stance lacks much to be desired in the way of brain power. Frenzy + Heal Sig? Hello, death sentence. He doesn't even have a ress in this build. Oh but oh, tell me how unintelligent I am for even suggesting there is a build where you don't want a IAS, when the flipping OP is being suggested to use one, which no one here seems to be debating the integrity of that suggested build, but instead harping on my comments about the use of IAS's in builds in general.

Go figure.

"Oh but Krazax, I don't need a cancel stance on Frenzy cuz I have enchants running on me from a Prot monk and this area doesn't have enchant stripping." Wtf are you kidding me? Do you always have a bonder no matter what? I don't think so, and to imply that there aren't a good degree of mesmer/necro enchant stripping mobs in the game is stupid at best. If you call my reasons 'gimmicky' wtf do you call that kind of response?

Ok now what about Flurry in this build?

Flurry is used for Adren accumulation, not for increased DPS because of the -25% dmg decrease.

Running Flurry isn't going to effectively increase his DPS. For one, he'll now need a Zealous mod on his weapon to keep up with the energy demand of Flurry because of it's short duration.

What about Tiger Stance?

1) He has no stance recharging skill.
and
2) He didn't put many points into Strength.

With 3 Strength, his IAS will last 5 seconds. Then he has a 15 second recharge. That's garbage for him. If he gets blinded, or if he misses, he losses that stance as well.

What if he uses [skill]Soldier's Stance[/skill]?

That's an elite, he's already using one! Not to mention, it would only work while he has "For Great Justice!" up anyways.

And how about Burst of Aggression?

4 sec duration with a 12 sec recharge, even worse then tiger's. Not to mention this one strips you of all your adren when it ends, which blows especially with Final Thrust in the bar when not used correctly - altho if you time them right, it can work very well.

So tell me now, in the place where Flail was suggested in the build advice by Leprechaun and myself, what should he have? An IAS or maybe something else. He's using 2 multi-attacks in this build mind you.

-=-=-=-=-=-

And speaking of multi-attacks...

Remember that little part in this debate where I was comparing Flail vs FGJ? Let's do any IAS vs FGJ in terms of builds incorporating multi-attacks. Let's take the 3 warrior skills that allow a warrior to have the best AoE splash damage.

[skill]triple chop[/skill]

[skill]cyclone axe[/skill]

Does a bar with those 3 skills REALLY need an IAS? OR would a skill that gives double adren from each attack that is heavy on multi-attacks be better? Add in the recharge times and tell me an answer.

Think about it. No really, think this time.

When you are waiting on cyclone axe to recharge, or triple chop, in this build, you could easily have enough time for a simple Executioner's without an IAS, and an IAS isn't going to make a significant difference for a hill of beans compared to a x2 adren shout. My point to you previously was this, that faster adren accumulation over time can be better because it lets you use adren attack skills faster. It is a case by case basis. Here is a specific case, and these skills incorporated into a build are not gimmicky, they are the best AOE splash damage combo's for a warrior. Toss on Conjure, a Rit buff, a Monk buff, or wutever and you got some serious splatter dmg. The best a warrior can do, period.

Whirlwind Attack requires 6 adren. You're not ALWAYS going to be hitting 6 targets every time in 90% of the cases, especially if you are using Flail without an aggro hog skill. I bet you're chances of hitting less then 6 are a lot higher, like say 3. Do you dispute that? So if you hit atleast 3 targets with FGJ up with TC or CA, you can immediately whirlwind attack after it. This allows for the following:

FGJ + TC + WW + CA + WW

Is this a NOT faster way to charge WW and yield MORE damage in less time then:

IAS + TC + CA + WW

Over a greater number of possible combat encounters? Is one attack skill that charges another not better then having to use 2 even tho they land faster? When faced with recharges, is more total attack skills fired not better then less over less time, or.. is it relatively the same?

That's the point I'm trying to make clear to you. Not always needed. The difference is down right marginal sometimes. Then when you also consider that sometimes your IAS might be a hinderance.. you start to see they aren't always necessary or desirable. I mean seriously. Think a couple of auto attacks are going to be better then an attack skill? Heck no.

Would an IAS + FGJ make this setup even better? Absolutely hands down probably every single time. I don't dispute that for a second, but that's not what we were debating now were we? It was one or the other. Here, clear as day, FGJ is better then ANY IAS when using the above, if you have to pick only one. Furthermore, in this type of build, would it not be wiser to have FGJ with say Rush/Sprint to allow the user to keep on top of mobs instead of being snared? What if the user is running "Save Yourselves!" for full aggro? Wouldn't a form of dmg reduction skill be better in this case?

What if there are enchant stripping mobs? or is that gimmicky like stance breaking? *eyeroll* Oh yeah, as for stance breaking being gimmicky, give me a break. The first mission in prof has mobs using wild blow. The second you walk out of ascalon and the other low level areas, you run into mobs using wild blow. You got that skill be used all over the place. Sorry to say, but it's not so uncommon as some of you think. Wild throw is all over the frigging place in NF.

When the day comes when there are skills that strip players of shouts, I'll concede, til then. I don't think so.

And another thing. Does a Dragon Slash user get more benefit from FGJ or an IAS? Does an IAS increase/alter adren gained by adren acquiring skills?

Heck no.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Iridescentfyre,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Case in point:
[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill] + [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] + [skill]eviscerate[/skill] + [skill]agonizing chop[/skill] + [skill]critical chop[/skill]
Does not need an IAS. Pre-nerf, this actually was better then Evi+Exe+IAS

Note, I said Evi+Exe+IAS. This means for adren acumulation, and how quickly you can output your spike the second you engage your target. With the combo I listed, one hit and you have full adren. You can now unload your combo. You're going to unload that combo before the other is even charged.
The timing of charging the combo and unloading it is:
1.33 + 1.33 + 1 + 1 for 4.66 seconds
compared to
(0.89x 8) + 0.89 + 0.89 = 8.9 seconds.

I mean come on. It's like double the speed of charging and executing your combo. Add in the fact that you have 1 solid, + 1 additional possible interrupt? It's an awesome combo. Brutally effective especially on Players or mobs. What's better then doing more damage? Stopping healing that's what. Monks can heal for way more then you can do in a single hit. Go beat on the master of healing with raw dmg vs a couple interrupts in an equally effective build, or get in PvP vs some healers, or fight monk/healer type mobs.

See which is more effective yourself. I'd say stopping a 200hp heal is better then landing a 50 dmg or even 100 dmg attack personally.

As for this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

[skill]Eviscerate[/skill][skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill]Agonizing Chop[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill]

If you want to argue spikes, yeah, this is a better one then Evi+Ago+Criti, cuz critical has that horrid 15 sec recharge for one. With an IAS, yeah, you're darn tooting this is a kick butt spike combo.. once it's charged. You'll still need a cancel stance for frenzy tho, which makes it a 5 skill requirement spike. My previous posted one doesn't require a cancel stance. In fact, you could be in an IMS while you unload it on a kiting target. Even someone kiting under an IMS.

The difference between 0.89 attack speed and 1 sec, is pretty marginal in battle. 0.11 secs isn't a heck of a lot of difference. I know, because I was able to unload that combo while under a 2nd IMS to spike kiting targets. Can you not agree that the ability to spike a kiting target, even one under an IMS, is one hell of a boon for a warrior? With AoE scatter, everything kites/moves in the game, PvE or PvP, without proper aggro mgmt.

Look, I can admit when I'm wrong or have made a mistake about something. My chart was off, once the player had engaged his Flail, he would have been attacking at 0.89 seconds and receiving 1 adren at that rate. You're right. Absolutely. I was wrong about the rate after Flail kicked in.

But I wasn't wrong about BEFORE it kicked in, which was my point. The person using FGJ would still be able to fire their adren combo faster then the Flail user. The technicality doesn't disprove the reality of my point. Furthermore, the rate is still LESS in terms of adren accumulation then the FGJ user. It will take a FGJ user 1.33 secs to get 2 adren. It takes an IAS user 1.78 seconds (2 auto attacks under the IAS) to achieve 2 adren.

Seriously, wut's faster? 1.33 or 1.78?

Add this to the mix, does an IAS increase the amount of adren you receive from a multi attack? No. Does FGJ? Yes. Is the OP using a multi-attack in their build? Yes. How many? 2.

Do they really need an IAS with this build with 2 multi-attacks? Would loosing the adren killer Final Thrust not be a better idea? Cuz then vs just 1 target you could:

FGJ
100 Blades (2 hits for 4 adren with FGJ)
Sever
Whirlwind
Gash
Sun & Moon (2 hits for 4 adren with FGJ)
Sever (a different target)
Whirlwind
Gash
Sun & Moon
100 Blades
rinse/repeat just keep on going til 20 secs is up.

If he tends to hit more then 1 target with 100x and WW, then Barbarous is put in for even better effective dps.

Remember, in that suggested build, it was IAS or something else. He has FGJ already. Does he really need an IAS, especially one that limits his movement?

Honestly man, I don't think he really does. I think he'd be better off with something else depending on what he was fighting.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

and builds that use 1/2 and 1 sec activation times are gimmicky builds.

... and signet heavy builds? Again gimmicks

So pre-nerf, builds that used Agonizing Chop were gimmicky huh? Well bud, hate to bust your bubble, but pre-nerf Evi+Ago+Criti under an IAS was the godly combo of warrior PvP, hence why both skills got hit with the nerf bat and why you don't see pure dmg unconditional attack skills with the warrior with 1/2 activations.

1/2 sec attack under +33% IAS = 0.335 sec attack
double that, you have 0.67 secs for 2 attacks.
Consider that dmg timer does not start until the dmg is applied, in the combo Evi+Ago+criti under an IAS, you have 250-300 dmg in under 1 second. I ran this combo in PvP pre-nerf, and I've run Evi+Exe. I saw with brutal effectiveness the HUGE difference between the two, and I've seen the difference since with Evi+Exe+Ago, which still doesn't come close.

Consider a 3rd 1/2 attack skill in that combo vs Evi+Exe. It isn't even the same ballpark. 1/2 attack skills that have unconditional damage, were in fact, not gimmicky. There was a reason builds weren't being highly posted showing these skills off. A dam good reason.

And signet heavy builds are gimmicks as well? So:
Symbolic Strike signet builds, even /Ra ones with Poison Tip Signet are gimmicks? Gimmie a break, I guess 100x/Sun&Moon Conjure builds are 'gimmicks' too huh?. You just gonna call anything a gimmick build to feel your right about something?

-=-=-=-=-=-

SUMMARY

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

He doesnt have factions.

You dont have to take an IAS but there is no good reason not to take one, more damage and more adrenaline is what warriors are all about, you dont have to take one but that does not mean that its better not to.

~A Leprechaun~

And so back to the beginning we end.

Let me sum up: I feel there are good reasons to not take an IAS, but more often then not for a Warrior, it is a good thing to have an IAS. On the immediate topic of the builds posted for the OP by Lep and myself, I personally do not believe he should have Flail, or any IAS, but instead go with something else more conducive to the area/encounter he is faced with. I personally feel that skill slot should be a wild card that changes depending on the situation, but that an IAS would be a drawback in this case compared to other skills because of the lack of a cancel stance more then anything else.

If I were to use this build, I would probably put Rush in there instead, so that I might be able to stay on top of my targets constantly, since this build is not designed for aggro mgmt.

PS> I'd say not having your options open because of a lack of expansions is also a 'good' reason not bring something.

6am3 Fana71c · Dec 10, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

WALL OF TEXT

You don't really expect people to read that, right?
Anyway...
For PvE, I use Enraging Charge, Flail, S&M Slash, DS, Save Yourselves, Brutal Weapon and Rez.
For PvP, generic shock axe build will do. End of story...

Age · Dec 10, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steboy93

@OP-sorry but your build is bad, if you have Factions try this.

[skill=text]brawling headbutt[/skill][skill]dragon slash[/skill][skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]enduring harmony[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill] And a res

You don't need FGJ if you already have Flail even Frenzy would do with sprint yes I use Frenzy in PvE.

Magikarp · Dec 11, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Krazax, typing more doesn't make you look like you know more.

You've lost the debate btw, I read the whole thread, and tbh, very rarely would any real warrior player ever run a bar without an IAS, unless they were either A:bored and playing something silly, B

laying a gimmick build like Wars Endurance Scythe Spam or Steady Stancer, or C:not.. really.. a good player.

heres the best bar ever for someone without an IAS:

Rage of the Ntouka
Barb Slash
Gash
Silverwing
some other crap
some other crap
maybe Lions Comfort...
idk.. some more junk.
did i get 8 skills yet?
firestorm
diversion
some other crap
death pact signet

roll it, go play, probably alone with H&Hs, because a warrior without an IAS (and in HM without SY!/WY!) is 99% of the time not a very good player, and fairly useless in terms of being an actual killing machine.

blue.rellik · Dec 11, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

So pre-nerf, builds that used Agonizing Chop were gimmicky huh? Well bud, hate to bust your bubble, but pre-nerf Evi+Ago+Criti under an IAS was the godly combo of warrior PvP, hence why both skills got hit with the nerf bat and why you don't see pure dmg unconditional attack skills with the warrior with 1/2 activations.

I was under the impression that when you said 1/2/3/4 builds, you meant builds that mainly relied on them. If you have one or two then that's fine.

Quote:

1/2 sec attack under +33% IAS = 0.335 sec attack
double that, you have 0.67 secs for 2 attacks.
Consider that dmg timer does not start until the dmg is applied, in the combo Evi+Ago+criti under an IAS, you have 250-300 dmg in under 1 second. I ran this combo in PvP pre-nerf, and I've run Evi+Exe. I saw with brutal effectiveness the HUGE difference between the two, and I've seen the difference since with Evi+Exe+Ago, which still doesn't come close.

Why are you talking about under a IAS when you'e advocating a IAS isn't always necessary?

Quote:

And signet heavy builds are gimmicks as well? So:
Symbolic Strike signet builds, even /Ra ones with Poison Tip Signet are gimmicks?

Get your facts straight, a 'signet build' is a build that has more than 50% signets, not a build with the one or two. Also Symbolic and Poison Tip are both nice and fun skills but hardly really great

Quote:

Gimmie a break, I guess 100x/Sun&Moon Conjure builds are 'gimmicks' too huh?. You just gonna call anything a gimmick build to feel your right about something?

Well actually 100 blades just sucks.

Teutonic Paladin · Dec 11, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

It seems that throughout this entire conversation people are switching from PvE to PvP and back again. Your points would probably make more sense if you stuck to one or made it clear what you are talking about. How exactly can you find a decent build that has so many attacks you can't make room for FGJ and Flail anyways? In PvE, very few enemies will run from you and never consistently. In PvP, how can you let yourself get away without Frenzy and Rush on any build? Those two skills pump out amazing DPS without ever touching an attack skill.

And someone's comment on flurry above was completely incorrect, Flurry gives you a 50% increase in swings and a 12.5% increase in damage. It definitely increases DPS.

A Leprechaun · Dec 11, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Ok Krazax, I get it, your some kind of internet arguing psycho, or whatever.
All I'm saying is that an IAS pretty much always adds to a build, both damage and adrenaline gain.
I couldnt give two shits if you run one or not in PvE, I dont some of the time, but I don't give, or have, a reason, some times I just cant be bothered.
*The majority of the time there is no good reason not to run an IAS on a warrior bar.*

Get over yourself.

~A Leprechaun~

majiger · Dec 11, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Just a question. Why do you only have 3 str???
You do know that each str point give 1% of armor penteration, right?

Stormlord Alex · Dec 11, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by majiger

Just a question. Why do you only have 3 str???
You do know that each str point give 1% of armor penteration, right?

Only on attack skills.
That 1% penetration is actually doing very little damage, and certainly not worth wasting attribute points on if you've got other places to put them.

Coloneh · Dec 11, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

wall of fail

no. your wrong. i didnt read that because i have things to do this week, but im assuming you said something about IAS not being nessisary. WRONG. IAS should ALWAYS be in a warrior build. and dont come out with an argument like "not in an OF tank build" because those suck. gave an example of a warrior build that dosnt suck, and is actually a build for a warrior that dosnt need an ias

Also, i think i cought something about flurry being less damage? you stupid? yeah it reduced attack damage. maybe you missed the part where it increases attack speed? flurry is 12.5% increase in damage, along with a 50% boost in gain from adren/vamp/zealous.

if you would like to make a reply that fits within 3/4 of my screen at normal text size i would be happy to read it.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 11, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

wall of fail

Ahh, thanks for the summary. I cba to read...

In counter-argument -

... that pretty much sums up my argument.
Except without the need for Walls of Fail.

Cat pictures beckon...

Tyla · Dec 12, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Incredibly long wall of failure text
>>>>>>
If you want to argue spikes, yeah, this is a better one then Evi+Ago+Criti, cuz critical has that horrid 15 sec recharge for one. With an IAS, yeah, you're darn tooting this is a kick butt spike combo.. once it's charged. You'll still need a cancel stance for frenzy tho, which makes it a 5 skill requirement spike. My previous posted one doesn't require a cancel stance. In fact, you could be in an IMS while you unload it on a kiting target. Even someone kiting under an IMS.
>>>>>>

rush as a cancel stance....IMS and IAS for spiking, bulls strike for kd.punish the kiter then kill them with the spike...

Quote:

Ending to incredibly long wall of failure text i cant be bothered reading because its most probably full of failure

iridescentfyre · Dec 12, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krazax

Incredibly long wall of failure text
>>>>>>
If you want to argue spikes, yeah, this is a better one then Evi+Ago+Criti, cuz critical has that horrid 15 sec recharge for one. With an IAS, yeah, you're darn tooting this is a kick butt spike combo.. once it's charged. You'll still need a cancel stance for frenzy tho, which makes it a 5 skill requirement spike. My previous posted one doesn't require a cancel stance. In fact, you could be in an IMS while you unload it on a kiting target. Even someone kiting under an IMS.
>>>>>>

rush as a cancel stance....IMS and IAS for spiking, bulls strike for kd.punish the kiter then kill them with the spike...

Pretty much. Krazax, when I posted 4 skills as an example of a spike, I did kind of imply there'd be a few others on the bar as well... Furthermore, running a cancel stance is hardly an issue for any decent warrior, and by doing so you're allowed a better spike build. Running a no IAS, inferior spike build just because you can't be bothered with a cancel stance is a handicap, not an advantage.

glountz · Dec 12, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

To the OP:
I assume you have Nightfall, a little of prophecies and no faction or Gwen.
I advise this sword build (as you seem to be going sword):
12+1+1 sword
12+1 tactics
3+1 strenght

For good Justice!
Flail (yes it doesn't last long but FGJ allows you to pump it really often, and the fact is short allows you to be free of the -33% movement quickly).
Shields up! (a very good core team-support shout)
Watch yourself! (an additionnal very good team support armor, very cheap and effective)
Crippling slash (E).
Gash
Whirlwind attack
Savage slash OR Distracting blow OR Soldier's strike.

Take a zealous sword.

If you will meet numerous ennemies without flesh (elementals, djinns, etc...), the Crippling slash-Gash combo will fail.
So, change weapon and take an axe! Then go Eviscerate OR Cleave, and add Executionner + Agonizing Chop. If you take cleave take Executionner and Dismember.

The build I gave you only has skills from Prophecies, Nightfall and Core. Upon your secondary profession, some Sunspear skills might appeal you, like There's Nothing to Fear in Paragon's line.

spottydog · Dec 13, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBP

well since you got nightfall I recommend going [skill]crippling slash[/skill] over hundred blades..it'll trigger your gash's deep wound.

If you're worried about adrenalin gain..do as Lep said... add [skill]flail[/skill]...pair that with [skill]enraging charge[/skill] and you have a very effective and popular adren building combo.
In pve I prefer lion's comfort for a heal...if you go with that over signet I suggest taking tactics down some and upping strength some..increasing your strength will lengthen your ias too.
You can keep whirlwind in there if you want but if you're in a h/h group most of the time odds are the ele's are taking care of aoe...I'd run a skill with some more utility like [skill]wild blow[/skill]

So the build I would run would be like this

[skill]crippling slash[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]lion's comfort[/skill]

Some people like taking no self-heal and relying on their healers but I prefer to take one just in-case.

As for the IAS not needed comment...It may be true for your minotaur gimmick farm where you don't seem to be using too much adrenaline..but for the most part any good warrior would be taking some form of IAS.

How does Crippling slash trigger Gash`s deep wound?